malloc + 4??

[Richard Delorme]

Re: malloc + 4??

Dan Pop a écrit :[color=blue]
> In <ln65cbi73x.fsf @nuthaus.mib.or g> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
>[color=green]
>>it for richness of vocabulary). I've heard that English is the only
>>language in which spelling bees are held (contests in which the object
>>is to correctly spell words after hearing them spoken).[/color]
>
> There are such contests for French, too. The winners are usually NOT
> native French speakers.[/color]

That's not true. The most popular contest is "la dictée de Pivot" also
known as "Les Dicos d'or" and the winners are usually French, but there
is a category for non native French speakers.
[color=blue]
> BTW, the average native French speaker can speak French grammatically
> correct, but cannot write French grammatically correct. For most verbs,
> several tenses and forms are pronounced identically, but written
> differently. Since they learned speaking instinctively, get it right
> when speaking is trivial, while getting it right when writing requires
> a solid understanding of the French grammar (otherwise, it's trivially
> easy to mix up, e.g. the infinitive and past participle of most regular
> verbs).[/color]

Although your last example is a common mistake, it's very easy to avoid
it for a native french speaker: just replace the verb by another one
(usually "prendre") and its pronunciation discriminates between the
infinitive and the past participle. The most difficult part of the
French grammar is the agreement of the adjectives and past participles.
In some cases, it only depends on the order of the words in the sentence.
Besides French grammar, spelling French is difficult because of the many
ways (not as much as English, though) to write the same sound and
because of the presence of mute letters (much more than English), e.g.
"saint", "sain", "sein", "seing", "ceint", "cinq" all share an identical
pronunciation but a different meaning.

--
Richard

[Keith Thompson]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

"Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
[...][color=blue]
> There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be thought to
> mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with a vowel, as it is
> dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a lot more severe.[/color]

And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed by a
vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
Schroedinger does Shakespeare: "To be *and* not to be"

[CBFalconer]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

Keith Thompson wrote:[color=blue]
> "Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
> [...][color=green]
>> There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
>> thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
>> a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
>> lot more severe.[/color]
>
> And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
> by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]

Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Martin Dickopp]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Keith Thompson wrote:[color=green]
>> "Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
>> [...][color=darkred]
>>> There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
>>> thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
>>> a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
>>> lot more severe.[/color]
>>
>> And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
>> by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
>
> Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".[/color]

Would you say that it is /possible/ (in correct English) to pronounce
the "e" in "the cat" like the first vowel of the word "ago"? Does the
same apply to the "e" in "the ant"?

Martin


--
,--. Martin Dickopp, Dresden, Germany ,= ,-_-. =.
/ ,- ) http://www.zero-based.org/ ((_/)o o(\_))
\ `-' `-'(. .)`-'
`-. Debian, a variant of the GNU operating system. \_/

[Joe Wright]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

CBFalconer wrote:[color=blue]
> Keith Thompson wrote:
>[color=green]
>>"Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
>>[...]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
>>>thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
>>>a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
>>>lot more severe.[/color]
>>
>>And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
>>by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
>
>
> Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".
>[/color]
Are you sure? How about "The President of the United States"? I would
pronounce it "Thuh President of thee United States". You not?

--
Joe Wright mailto:joewwrig ht@comcast.net
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
--- Albert Einstein ---

[CBFalconer]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

Martin Dickopp wrote:[color=blue]
> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> writes:[color=green]
>> Keith Thompson wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
>>> [...]
>>>> There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
>>>> thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
>>>> a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
>>>> lot more severe.
>>>
>>> And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
>>> by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
>>
>> Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".[/color]
>
> Would you say that it is /possible/ (in correct English) to
> pronounce the "e" in "the cat" like the first vowel of the word
> "ago"? Does the same apply to the "e" in "the ant"?[/color]

IMO, no, but I may be mistaking the sound represented. The two
acceptible prononciations of "the" are thee and thuh. I believe
you are referring to a "tha" sound, which I expect is limited to
some rural areas in the UK and the Ottawa valley in Canada, and
others unknown to me.

I have no facility in sound representations :-(

--
Churchill and Bush can both be considered wartime leaders, just
as Secretariat and Mr Ed were both horses. - James Rhodes.

[CBFalconer]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

Joe Wright wrote:[color=blue]
> CBFalconer wrote:[color=green]
> > Keith Thompson wrote:[color=darkred]
> >>"Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>>There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
> >>>thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
> >>>a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
> >>>lot more severe.
> >>
> >>And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
> >>by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
> >
> >
> > Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".
> >[/color]
> Are you sure? How about "The President of the United States"? I
> would pronounce it "Thuh President of thee United States". You not?[/color]

I would use either "thuh" or "thee" with abandonment there.
Assuming I want to make any pronouncements on the subject :-)
However, I am not the ultimate authority.

--
Churchill and Bush can both be considered wartime leaders, just
as Secretariat and Mr Ed were both horses. - James Rhodes.

[Peter Pichler]

[OT] Re: malloc + 4??

"Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.c h> wrote in message
news:c53lpl$9kt $10@sunnews.cer n.ch...
[color=blue]
> BTW, the average native French speaker can speak French grammatically
> correct, but cannot write French grammatically correct.[/color]

The same can be said about the English. The first time I've read 'their'
instead of 'there' in a paper, it confused me so much that I had to go
to the author to ask him WTF he'd meant. The same for 'write' and 'right'
and many others (such as 'see' and 'sea', in an attempt to bring this
thread back on topic).

Peter

[Alan Balmer]

Re: [OT] Re: malloc + 4??

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:20:50 +0100, "Peter Pichler" <pichlo7@pobox. sk>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Dan Pop" <Dan.Pop@cern.c h> wrote in message
>news:c53lpl$9k t$10@sunnews.ce rn.ch...
>[color=green]
>> BTW, the average native French speaker can speak French grammatically
>> correct, but cannot write French grammatically correct.[/color][/color]

Shouldn't that be "the average native French speaker can speak
grammatically correct French , but cannot write grammatically correct
French"?[color=blue]
>
>The same can be said about the English. The first time I've read 'their'
>instead of 'there' in a paper, it confused me so much that I had to go
>to the author to ask him WTF he'd meant.[/color]

My current pet peeve is "lose" and "loose".
[color=blue]
>The same for 'write' and 'right'
>and many others (such as 'see' and 'sea', in an attempt to bring this
>thread back on topic).
>
>Peter
>[/color]

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmercon sultingthis@att .net

[Arthur J. O'Dwyer]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??


On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, Martin Dickopp wrote:[color=blue]
>
> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> writes:[color=green]
> > Keith Thompson wrote:[color=darkred]
> >> "Mark Henning" <mahenning@btop enworld.com> writes:
> >> [...]
> >>> There is a similar phenomonon in english. The word 'a' can be
> >>> thought to mutate to 'an' when it precedes a word beginning with
> >>> a vowel, as it is dificult to pronounce otherwise. Welsh is a
> >>> lot more severe.
> >>
> >> And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
> >> by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
> >
> > Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".[/color]
>
> Would you say that it is /possible/ (in correct English) to pronounce
> the "e" in "the cat" like the first vowel of the word "ago"? Does the
> same apply to the "e" in "the ant"?[/color]

Assuming you pronounce "ago" "uh-go," not "ah-go," then certainly.
Yes and yes.

However, Keith is right, at least in my dialect of American English!
I didn't realize it until I repeated some sentences to myself and watched
which pronunciation I used:

"For Pete's sake, get in the boat!"
"For Pete's sake, get in the airplane!"

"Have you seen the caterpillar?"
"Have you seen the anteater?"

"The President of the United States of America!"

Repeat these sentences at full conversational speed, without
trying to pronounce the "the"s any particular way. When I do
that, I find that I am unconsciously inserting a sort of "y"
sound in between "the" and "airplane," and so on, thus turning
the "thuh" into a "thee" before a vowel. It's very subtle, and
it's not wrong English not to make the switch in pronunciation,
but I think it's something that comes naturally to speakers of
at least one American English. :)

Very interesting! (but off-topic)

-Arthur

[Stephen Sprunk]

Re: [OT] Re: malloc + 4??

"Alan Balmer" <albalmer@att.n et> wrote in message
news:rv1e70l69v 6tl7lpee911g8a7 hg6jcjape@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:20:50 +0100, "Peter Pichler" <pichlo7@pobox. sk>
> wrote:[color=green]
> >The same can be said about the English. The first time I've read 'their'
> >instead of 'there' in a paper, it confused me so much that I had to go
> >to the author to ask him WTF he'd meant.[/color]
>
> My current pet peeve is "lose" and "loose".[/color]

I've always had a fondness for "read", which can be pronounced like either
"red" or "reed", and may mean a present tense verb, past tense verb, or a
noun. Americans are particularly bad about turning verbs into nouns and
vice versa without changing the spelling, which also confuses a new speaker.

As a native English speaker, I've never had trouble correctly spelling or
pronouncing words I've never seen or heard before, but that's because my
parents used a very different method to teach me than what's used in
schools. Particularly, they taught me words in groups which had similar
behavior instead of groups that had similar meanings; I now know that
behavior follows what language English "borrowed" the word from, and can
apply that to new words without trouble.

Another oddity of English is that while there many synonyms for most common
words, non-native speakers tend to only learn and use one of them, usually
the one that most resembles their own language. This leads to situations
where, for example, a native speaker has to translate between an Asian and a
European both speaking mutually exclusive subsets of English.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin

[Stephen Sprunk]

Re: [Way OT] malloc + 4??

"CBFalconer " <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote in message
news:40765560.1 DA9BC03@yahoo.c om...[color=blue]
> Keith Thompson wrote:[color=green]
> > And similarly, "the" is pronounced with a long 'e' when followed
> > by a vowel, though the spelling doesn't change.[/color]
>
> Oh? I would pronounce "the ant" just the same as "the cat".[/color]

"Thee ant" flows more naturally than "thuh ant", whereas "thee cat" is less
natural than "thuh cat". Some people only say "thee" or "thuh" in all
cases, but it seems more common for pronunciation to mutate based on the
following word.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Stupid people surround themselves with smart
CCIE #3723 people. Smart people surround themselves with
K5SSS smart people who disagree with them." --Aaron Sorkin

[CBFalconer]

Re: [OT] Re: malloc + 4??

Stephen Sprunk wrote:[color=blue]
> "Alan Balmer" <albalmer@att.n et> wrote in message[color=green]
>> "Peter Pichler" <pichlo7@pobox. sk> > wrote:[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The same can be said about the English. The first time I've
>>> read 'their' instead of 'there' in a paper, it confused me so
>>> much that I had to go to the author to ask him WTF he'd meant.[/color]
>>
>> My current pet peeve is "lose" and "loose".[/color]
>
> I've always had a fondness for "read", which can be pronounced
> like either "red" or "reed", and may mean a present tense verb,
> past tense verb, or a noun. Americans are particularly bad
> about turning verbs into nouns and vice versa without changing
> the spelling, which also confuses a new speaker.[/color]

Every so often I have to look with horror on what came back after
I post something. My minor typos insist on looking like ignorant
spelling foulups. I especially remember a lose/loose foulup a few
days ago. I have even fouled there/their.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yah oo.com) (cbfalconer@wor ldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home .att.net> USE worldnet address!

[Peter Pichler]

Re: [OT] Re: malloc + 4??

"CBFalconer " <cbfalconer@yah oo.com> wrote in message[color=blue]
> Every so often I have to look with horror on what came back after
> I post something. My minor typos insist on looking like ignorant
> spelling foulups. I especially remember a lose/loose foulup a few
> days ago. I have even fouled there/their.[/color]

:-)

Lose/loose can be explained as a simple typo. Bot for us, non-native
speakers, who'd learnt the language mostly by reading, there and
their are *visually* two completely different things. And I usually
don't bother pronouncing it when I'm reading it, that would slow me
down. The visual information is all I need. Thus errors like these
can sometimes confuse me, though not for longer than a second or two
nowadays.

Now, can this explain so many readers confusing C and C++?

Peter

[Ben Pfaff]

Re: [OT] Re: malloc + 4??

"Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk .org> writes:
[color=blue]
> I've always had a fondness for "read", which can be pronounced like either
> "red" or "reed", and may mean a present tense verb, past tense verb, or a
> noun. Americans are particularly bad about turning verbs into nouns and
> vice versa without changing the spelling, which also confuses a new speaker.[/color]

I'm fond of "resent", which can be interpreted as "feel bitter or
indignant about" or "sent again". The ambiguity between these
two meanings can occasionally be important. As a result I always
hyphenate the latter into "re-sent".
--
"This is a wonderful answer.
It's off-topic, it's incorrect, and it doesn't answer the question."
--Richard Heathfield