Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

[John Harrison]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:59:14 GMT, Alan Gauld <alan.gauld@bti nternet.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> - Structure & Interpretation of Computer Programs
> by Sussman et al
>[/color]

Best book on programming I've ever read, but not about software
engineering.

john

[Chris Schumacher]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

stevejohnson197 2@yahoo.com (Steve Johnson) wrote in
news:949ec44a.0 407280704.12141 129@posting.goo gle.com:
[color=blue]
> I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
> classics in the field of software engineering. I read a lot on the
> topic - at least a book a month for many years. There are many good
> authors, however, the only book on making software that is truly
> timeless, in my opinion, is "Mythical Man Month" by Brooks. It never
> ceases to amaze me that something written over 20 years ago would be
> so relevant.[/color]

In my personal experience Kernighan&Plaug her's "Software Tools" is a
good book. It's a perfect book to read after you've learned the basics of
your language of choice, and are sick of writing glorified "hello world"
programs.
Advanced users will, of course, find next to nothing new in it. But for
beginning programmers it does bridge the gap between the shit do-nothing
programs you write in beginning programming classes and useful
applications.
Ratfor is damn hard to understand, though. I wish they'd rewrite it for C
or C++ like they did for Pascal.


-==Kensu==-

[H. E. Taylor]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

In article <949ec44a.04072 80704.12141129@ posting.google. com>,
<stevejohnson19 72@yahoo.com> Steve Johnson wrote:[color=blue]
>
> I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
> classics in the field of software engineering. I read a lot on the
> topic - at least a book a month for many years. There are many good
> authors, however, the only book on making software that is truly
> timeless, in my opinion, is "Mythical Man Month" by Brooks. It never
> ceases to amaze me that something written over 20 years ago would be
> so relevant.
>
> It seems like Brooks achieved this by focusing on what is the essence
> of software engineering, which is comprised of:
>
> A) building models of reality.
> B) the people who tend to like building models of reality, what they
> are like, and what makes them work together effectively.
>
> Many books focus excessively on a particular language, a specific
> domain, on project management, Gantt charts etc and miss the forest
> for the trees.
>
> Note that I'm specifically looking for books on making software, on
> Software Engineering as a craft as opposed for classic books on
> computer science (e.g. Knuth) which is a completely different category
> in my mind.
>
> Are there any other books like MMM that you can think of where every
> page is packed with insight where it seems not a single word is in
> vain?
> I'd be grateful for your suggestions. There must be at least a couple
> out there.
>[/color]

Add _The Pragmatic Programmer_ by Hunt & Thomas to your list.

<ciao>
-het




--
"See that, son?
That's the moon.
A long time ago, we used to go there." -stolen .sig

Computer Links: http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/clinks.html
H.E. Taylor http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/

[Andrew Reilly]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

Steve Johnson wrote:[color=blue]
> Are there any other books like MMM that you can think of where every
> page is packed with insight where it seems not a single word is in
> vain?[/color]

I like Bertrand Meyer's "Object Oriented Software Construction"
2nd rev. Certainly a lot of detail to think about.

Might not be as concise or as general as you're after, but it's a
big field.

At Uni, long ago, I was taught from "Software Engineering" by I.
Sommerville. I hardly remember it, but I don't think that I liked
it. Full of software life cycle diagrams and the like, from memory.

More programming-specific and more beginner-level than you're
after, but very beautiful is "Data Structures, with Abstract Data
Types and Pascal", by Stubbs and Webre. I think that there are
revisions with the examples in other languages, now, but I haven't
read them.

Cheers,

--
Andrew

[David Lightstone]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering


"Steve Johnson" <stevejohnson19 72@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:949ec44a.0 407280704.12141 129@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
> classics in the field of software engineering. I read a lot on the
> topic - at least a book a month for many years. There are many good
> authors, however, the only book on making software that is truly
> timeless, in my opinion, is "Mythical Man Month" by Brooks. It never
> ceases to amaze me that something written over 20 years ago would be
> so relevant.
>
> It seems like Brooks achieved this by focusing on what is the essence
> of software engineering, which is comprised of:
>
> A) building models of reality.
> B) the people who tend to like building models of reality, what they
> are like, and what makes them work together effectively.
>
> Many books focus excessively on a particular language, a specific
> domain, on project management, Gantt charts etc and miss the forest
> for the trees.
>
> Note that I'm specifically looking for books on making software, on
> Software Engineering as a craft as opposed for classic books on
> computer science (e.g. Knuth) which is a completely different category
> in my mind.
>
> Are there any other books like MMM that you can think of where every
> page is packed with insight where it seems not a single word is in
> vain?
> I'd be grateful for your suggestions. There must be at least a couple
> out there.[/color]

Programmers and Managers - The Routinization of Computer Programming in the
United States by Philip Kraft (cerca 1977). Not specifically about software
engineering. More so about why the softwre engineering effort won't solve
the problem

Testing in Software Development by Martyn Ould and Charles Unwin

Managing Software Quality and Business Risk by Martyn Ould
[color=blue]
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Steve[/color]

[A.G.McDowell]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

In article <949ec44a.04072 80704.12141129@ posting.google. com>, Steve
Johnson <stevejohnson19 72@yahoo.com> writes[color=blue]
>I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
>classics in the field of software engineering. I read a lot on the
>topic - at least a book a month for many years. There are many good
>authors, however, the only book on making software that is truly
>timeless, in my opinion, is "Mythical Man Month" by Brooks. It never
>ceases to amaze me that something written over 20 years ago would be
>so relevant.
>[/color]
Software Fundamentals: Collected papers by David L. Parnas
(Note that this was edited by David M. Weiss and Daniel M. Hoffman, so
if you are searching for it you might have to put them down as authors).

Classic papers on the rationale for splitting software into modules -
and therefore what splits make sense and what don't. Also a miscellany
of articles about specification, concurrency, real time systems, and so
on.

I wish I could point to the great impact that this has had on the
practice of designing software, but I am afraid that it has not yet had
the impact it deserves, and that we are the worse for that.
--
A.G.McDowell

[Scott Moore]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

Steve Johnson wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
> classics in the field of software engineering. I read a lot on the
> topic - at least a book a month for many years. There are many good
> authors, however, the only book on making software that is truly
> timeless, in my opinion, is "Mythical Man Month" by Brooks. It never
> ceases to amaze me that something written over 20 years ago would be
> so relevant.[/color]

My list would be:

MMM (as above)

Compiler construction for digital computers, David Gries. One of the
earliest compilations of material on compiler design, this was an
early book containing practical algorithims for designing large programs
of all types. Often referenced by other books, but largely forgotten
today.

The C Programming Language, K&R. Introduced both C and Unix, and
really gave you an idea how you might write an OS in a high level
language at a time when it was assumed that all OSes were assembly
language.

Pascal Users Manual and Report, Jensen and Wirth. The forever unfufilled
dream that programs could be clean and easy to understand.

The Art of Computer Programming - Knuth. Perhaps the ultimate encyclopedia
of programming, the only knock against it I ever heard was that Knuth
clearly thought it to be the ultimate programming encyclopedia, too.

Basic Basic, Coan. Don't laugh, most early homebrew computer users
read this book. It taught a generation of microcomputer programmers to
program.

Principles of Compiler Design, Aho and Ullman. Aka the "dragon book",
first generally available book of advanced compiler design. Somewhat
"classic because its classic", it even appeared in a movie about
hackers, even though it has virtually nothing to do with hacking.

Programming languages: history and fundamentals, Sammet. First (and last)
real look at where programming languages came from, and are going to.

Unix Programmers Manual, Vol 1 and 2, Bell labs. Was printed and placed
in common bookshelves long before anyone outside a university could
get their hands on a Unix implementation. I designed two operating
systems based on the concepts in it before even seeing my first
Unix implementation, on a 68000 (Unisoft).

Writing Interactive Compilers and Interpreters, P. J. Brown. Admittedly
not a popular book, one of the most amazingly practical books on the
subject of compiler and interpreter designs that has ever appeared.

--
Samiam is Scott A. Moore

Personal web site: http:/www.moorecad.co m/scott
My electronics engineering consulting site: http://www.moorecad.com
ISO 7185 Standard Pascal web site: http://www.moorecad.com/standardpascal
Classic Basic Games web site: http://www.moorecad.com/classicbasic
The IP Pascal web site, a high performance, highly portable ISO 7185 Pascal
compiler system: http://www.moorecad.com/ippas

Being right is more powerfull than large corporations or governments.
The right argument may not be pervasive, but the facts eventually are.

[Roy Omond]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

Steve Johnson wrote:
[color=blue]
> I'd be grateful for your suggestions. There must be at least a couple
> out there.[/color]

Only tangentially related, but how about:

o "The Psychology of Computer Programming" by Gerald Weinberg
o "The Psychology of Everyday Things" by Don Norman

Agreed 100% about MMM. It was compulsory reading for undergraduates
when I was studying mid 1970's. Should still be today.

Roy Omond
Blue Bubble Ltd.

[Toby Thain]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

JXStern <JXSternChangeX 2R@gte.net> wrote in message news:<1mmfg0pgv n0i2b2v48mvp4qt 3judkedmva@4ax. com>...[color=blue]
> ...
> Kernigan and Plauger, "Elements of Programming Style"...[/color]

Can't recommend it enough; that book did more to improve my code than
any other book I can think of. It's the sort of book that one should
re-read every 5 years or so, and I am overdue to read it again...

Toby

[Marcelo Pinto]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

stevejohnson197 2@yahoo.com (Steve Johnson) wrote in message news:<949ec44a. 0407280704.1214 1129@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue]
>
> Are there any other books like MMM that you can think of where every
> page is packed with insight where it seems not a single word is in
> vain?
> I'd be grateful for your suggestions. There must be at least a couple
> out there.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Steve[/color]

I haven't read MMM yet. But my personal list is:

- Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code by Fowler
- Agile Software Development, Principles, Patterns, and Practices by Martin
- Software Craftsmanship: The New Imperative by McBreen

Good luck,

Marcelo Pinto

[Victor B. Putz]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

MMM is of course fantastic. And I would also put Code Complete on the
short list (and there's a new edition coming soon). MMM is more of a
high-level thing, while Code Complete starts at a lower level but is
so packed with good advice that I always get something out of it when
rereading.

I also HIGHLY recommend McConnell's "Software Project Survival Guide",
which is a great companion volume to "Code Complete". His "Rapid
Development" is another great collection of software construction
knowledge. I would place McConnell at the top of my short list of
"authors I will read whenever I see them put out something new".

In fact, McConnell's approach in Code Complete (and his later efforts
as editor of IEEE Computer magazine) inspired me to be extremely lazy
when making a reading list--and just took his. Steve's company,
Construx software, has an established reading list that's available on
the web... or was; their 1.0 version of their reading ladder is now
only available to "website members" (free registration but still a
little annoying). You can get some idea from their current program
(the one for a sample developer is at

http://www.construx.com/professionaldev/individual/pdlsampleplans/sampledev.php

....but I liked the "annotated bibliography" aspect of the v1
ladder--aside from having better presentations of each of the
materials, it also included a list of seminal articles from software
history and was just a great list of resources. HIGHLY recommended,
and probably worth registering on the site just to have. I read
pretty much everything on there (or at least one of the options
whenever it said "this book or this book").

-->VPutz

[Larry Crimson]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

> I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true[color=blue]
> classics in the field of software engineering.[/color]

What about:

The Inmates are Running the Asylum

Opps, my mistake. I thought you said pointless drivel.

Seriously, I would add:

Managing the Software Process, by Watts Humphrey.

Larry

[Default User]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

JXStern wrote:
[color=blue]
> The only book that *concise* I can think of is Kernigan and Ritchie,
> "The C Programming Language", but maybe it's too techie for your
> category.
>
> Kernigan and Plauger, "Elements of Programming Style", never quite did
> it for me, but others might name it.[/color]


Just to note, it's spelled "Kernighan" . That can be important when
searching for books.




Brian Rodenborn

[puppet_sock@hotmail.com]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

"Sergio Navega" <snavega@intell iwise.com> wrote in message news:<4107cf6a$ 1_7@news.athena news.com>...[color=blue]
> "Marshall Spight" <mspight@dnai.c om> escreveu na mensagem
> news:epPNc.1770 55$IQ4.107932@a ttbi_s02...[color=green]
> > "Steve Johnson" <stevejohnson19 72@yahoo.com> wrote in message[/color]
> news:949ec44a.0 407280704.12141 129@posting.goo gle.com...[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > I'd like to hear thoughts on what books, in your opinion, are true
> > > classics in the field of software engineering.[/color]
> >
> > I can't vouch for it myself, but I hear a lot of people mention
> > "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell.
> >
> >[/color]
>
> I also vote for "Code Complete". It is a remarkable (although excessively
> lenghy) work. If you don't want to face its 850+ pages, there's a smaller
> alternative:
>
> Maguire, Steve (1993) Writing Solid Code. Microsoft Press.
>
> These two books are classics by any definition (and both were written
> by "Steves" and published by Microsoft Press).[/color]

_Writing Solid Code_ should be considered only an appetizer.
It's got the attitude, but really only a few good examples.
It's also strongly oriented towards writing C code.
The notion it plugs is "keep trying to improve" and that is
good. It was one of the first books I read that had that
particular message. Go ahead and read it, but *DON'T* stop
after that. Get _Code Complete_ as soon as you can afford
the money and time.

The "effective C++" books are excellent also, and available
as a package for cheap on CD.
Socks

[puppet_sock@hotmail.com]

Re: Timeless Classics of Software Engineering

Another book I quite enjoyed was: _Death March_ by Yourdon.
He gives excellent advice on how to cope with the project
from hell, with far too large a requirement set in far too
little time.
Socks