C going to C++

[Chris Fogelklou]

Re: C going to C++

"Kevin Torr" <kevintorr@hotm ail.com> wrote in message
news:406fdd5a$0 $27643$61ce578d @news.syd.swift dsl.com.au...[color=blue]
> "John Harrison" <john_andronicu s@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c4ol54$2hi na4$1@ID-196037.news.uni-berlin.de...[color=green]
> > You seem confused between C++ and Visual C++. Visual C++ is a[/color][/color]
development[color=blue][color=green]
> > environment and your questions are all about how to use that tool. As[/color][/color]
such[color=blue][color=green]
> > they have no relevance on a group about the C++ language (or C language
> > either).
> > Learning C++ is learning a new language, if that is what you want to do[/color]
> then[color=green]
> > fine, ask your C++ questions here. On the other hand learning how to[/color]
> program[color=green]
> > Windows or how to use Visual C++ does not require that you learn C++[/color]
> (Visual[color=green]
> > C++ is a perfectly good C compiler).
> > Try news:microsoft. public.vc.ide_g eneral for help with the Visual C++
> > development tool (you can find this on Microsoft's news server
> > news.Microsoft. com if your server doesn't carry it). Try
> > news:comp.os.ms-windows.program mer.win for Windows programming[/color][/color]
questions.[color=blue]
>
> I understand what you're saying.
>
> Where can I find a tutorial that will show me the steps in writing a C++
> program that will perform my task, or at least something visually similar?
>
> A box with an input, an output field, and a button that runs the function.
>[/color]

Also check out wxWindows, a cross platform C++ GUI library that can be
compiled in MSVC, GCC, mingw, or any other compiler for many platforms.

It has plenty of good examples to walk through, compiles natively on your
chosen platform, and lets you focus on the C++ coding rather than the
graphics.

Cheers, Chris

[Chris Fogelklou]

Re: C going to C++

"Kevin Torr" <kevintorr@hotm ail.com> wrote in message
news:406fdd5a$0 $27643$61ce578d @news.syd.swift dsl.com.au...[color=blue]
> "John Harrison" <john_andronicu s@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c4ol54$2hi na4$1@ID-196037.news.uni-berlin.de...[color=green]
> > You seem confused between C++ and Visual C++. Visual C++ is a[/color][/color]
development[color=blue][color=green]
> > environment and your questions are all about how to use that tool. As[/color][/color]
such[color=blue][color=green]
> > they have no relevance on a group about the C++ language (or C language
> > either).
> > Learning C++ is learning a new language, if that is what you want to do[/color]
> then[color=green]
> > fine, ask your C++ questions here. On the other hand learning how to[/color]
> program[color=green]
> > Windows or how to use Visual C++ does not require that you learn C++[/color]
> (Visual[color=green]
> > C++ is a perfectly good C compiler).
> > Try news:microsoft. public.vc.ide_g eneral for help with the Visual C++
> > development tool (you can find this on Microsoft's news server
> > news.Microsoft. com if your server doesn't carry it). Try
> > news:comp.os.ms-windows.program mer.win for Windows programming[/color][/color]
questions.[color=blue]
>
> I understand what you're saying.
>
> Where can I find a tutorial that will show me the steps in writing a C++
> program that will perform my task, or at least something visually similar?
>
> A box with an input, an output field, and a button that runs the function.
>[/color]

Also check out wxWindows, a cross platform C++ GUI library that can be
compiled in MSVC, GCC, mingw, or any other compiler for many platforms.

It has plenty of good examples to walk through, compiles natively on your
chosen platform, and lets you focus on the C++ coding rather than the
graphics.

Cheers, Chris

[Pete]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Steven T. Hatton wrote:
<snip>[color=blue]
>
> I will *highly* recommend the learning materials found in the Qt
> documentation. You can get Qt free for Win32, or better.
>
> http://www.trolltech.com
>
> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/index.html[/color]

I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real Windows API
instead.
Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you want to
do something useful with your program it costs around several thousand
dollars.
It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.

If you want to use a glossy wrapper around the real & elegant Win32 API, use
something with good licensing terms such as WTL.

- Pete

[Pete]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Steven T. Hatton wrote:
<snip>[color=blue]
>
> I will *highly* recommend the learning materials found in the Qt
> documentation. You can get Qt free for Win32, or better.
>
> http://www.trolltech.com
>
> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/index.html[/color]

I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real Windows API
instead.
Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you want to
do something useful with your program it costs around several thousand
dollars.
It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.

If you want to use a glossy wrapper around the real & elegant Win32 API, use
something with good licensing terms such as WTL.

- Pete

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Pete wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steven T. Hatton wrote:
> <snip>[color=green]
>>
>> I will *highly* recommend the learning materials found in the Qt
>> documentation. You can get Qt free for Win32, or better.
>>
>> http://www.trolltech.com
>>
>> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/index.html[/color]
>
> I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real Windows
> API instead.
> Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you want to
> do something useful with your program it costs around several thousand
> dollars.[/color]

That's interesting. I'm using a Qt based application as my usenet client,
and the license is free. AAMOF, my entire desktop is Qt based, and free.
Oh, you want to /sell/ your product, and not /pay/ TrollTech! Well....
[color=blue]
> It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.[/color]

There is nothing in Qt that isn't standard C++. That is, there is no
language feature used in Qt that is not specified in the Standard. Perhaps
you mean moc? It's standard preprocessor metaprogramming .

But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.

--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Pete wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steven T. Hatton wrote:
> <snip>[color=green]
>>
>> I will *highly* recommend the learning materials found in the Qt
>> documentation. You can get Qt free for Win32, or better.
>>
>> http://www.trolltech.com
>>
>> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.3/index.html[/color]
>
> I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real Windows
> API instead.
> Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you want to
> do something useful with your program it costs around several thousand
> dollars.[/color]

That's interesting. I'm using a Qt based application as my usenet client,
and the license is free. AAMOF, my entire desktop is Qt based, and free.
Oh, you want to /sell/ your product, and not /pay/ TrollTech! Well....
[color=blue]
> It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.[/color]

There is nothing in Qt that isn't standard C++. That is, there is no
language feature used in Qt that is not specified in the Standard. Perhaps
you mean moc? It's standard preprocessor metaprogramming .

But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.

--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Claudio Puviani]

Re: C going to C++

"Kevin Torr" <kevintorr@hotm ail.com> wrote[color=blue]
> I've been using C for some time now and I would
> like to take my first leap into C++. I should warn
> you that I have little or no experience with visual
> C++, though I do have some experience with different
> OOP languages.
>
> I am using Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0.
>
> I would like to create a very simple program to
> begin with:
>
> A dialog box, say 320x240 in size, with file->exit and
> help->about menus.
> [rest snipped][/color]

This isn't going to help you learn C++ any more than getting thrown in a
crate and shipped to Wisconsin will help you learn how to fly a plane.
You'll be spending all your energy trying to figure out the aspects of
programming the graphical interface and practically none learning anything
meaningful about C++.

As boring as it may seem, you'll learn far more by avoiding GUIs, databases,
and other platform-specific distractions and by modeling various problems
using the core C++ language and libraries. Once you're comfortable with
that, it will be a lot easier to expand into other territories.

Claudio Puviani

[Claudio Puviani]

Re: C going to C++

"Kevin Torr" <kevintorr@hotm ail.com> wrote[color=blue]
> I've been using C for some time now and I would
> like to take my first leap into C++. I should warn
> you that I have little or no experience with visual
> C++, though I do have some experience with different
> OOP languages.
>
> I am using Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0.
>
> I would like to create a very simple program to
> begin with:
>
> A dialog box, say 320x240 in size, with file->exit and
> help->about menus.
> [rest snipped][/color]

This isn't going to help you learn C++ any more than getting thrown in a
crate and shipped to Wisconsin will help you learn how to fly a plane.
You'll be spending all your energy trying to figure out the aspects of
programming the graphical interface and practically none learning anything
meaningful about C++.

As boring as it may seem, you'll learn far more by avoiding GUIs, databases,
and other platform-specific distractions and by modeling various problems
using the core C++ language and libraries. Once you're comfortable with
that, it will be a lot easier to expand into other territories.

Claudio Puviani

[Pete]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=blue]
> Pete wrote:[/color]
<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real
>> Windows API instead.
>> Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you
>> want to do something useful with your program it costs around
>> several thousand dollars.[/color]
>
> That's interesting. I'm using a Qt based application as my usenet
> client, and the license is free. AAMOF, my entire desktop is Qt
> based, and free. Oh, you want to /sell/ your product, and not /pay/
> TrollTech! Well....[/color]

No. If I had a bunch of Qt apps and needed to sell them, I'd pay.
But IMO when better and free tools (WTL) are availible, I'd rather not pay.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.[/color]
>
> There is nothing in Qt that isn't standard C++. That is, there is no
> language feature used in Qt that is not specified in the Standard.
> Perhaps you mean moc? It's standard preprocessor metaprogramming .[/color]

Signals, slots, and other junk.
[color=blue]
>
> But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.[/color]

I don't really care about that. There's no OS other than Windows (desktop
and CE) that my target audience uses, so it would be a bad move to not use
the native toolkit.

- Pete

[Pete]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=blue]
> Pete wrote:[/color]
<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> I will *highly* recommend you stay away from Qt and use the real
>> Windows API instead.
>> Qt's licensing is horrible. Yes, you can get it free, but once you
>> want to do something useful with your program it costs around
>> several thousand dollars.[/color]
>
> That's interesting. I'm using a Qt based application as my usenet
> client, and the license is free. AAMOF, my entire desktop is Qt
> based, and free. Oh, you want to /sell/ your product, and not /pay/
> TrollTech! Well....[/color]

No. If I had a bunch of Qt apps and needed to sell them, I'd pay.
But IMO when better and free tools (WTL) are availible, I'd rather not pay.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> It also includes a bunch of non-standard C++ language features.[/color]
>
> There is nothing in Qt that isn't standard C++. That is, there is no
> language feature used in Qt that is not specified in the Standard.
> Perhaps you mean moc? It's standard preprocessor metaprogramming .[/color]

Signals, slots, and other junk.
[color=blue]
>
> But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.[/color]

I don't really care about that. There's no OS other than Windows (desktop
and CE) that my target audience uses, so it would be a bad move to not use
the native toolkit.

- Pete

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Pete wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=green]
>> Pete wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Signals, slots, and other junk.[/color]

They are merely shorthand for code produced by moc. You can read the code,
and it is all standard C++. I'm not going to go into this any further.
It's not proper for me to speak for TrollTech, nor is it proper for you to
deride their product in a forum such as this where it is not appropriate
for them to defend their product. You can go elsewhere and hash it out,
but I don't think I'll follow.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.[/color]
>
> I don't really care about that. There's no OS other than Windows (desktop
> and CE) that my target audience uses, so it would be a bad move to not use
> the native toolkit.[/color]

Fine. That's your business. I wasn't offering the advice to you.

--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Pete wrote:
[color=blue]
> Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=green]
>> Pete wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Signals, slots, and other junk.[/color]

They are merely shorthand for code produced by moc. You can read the code,
and it is all standard C++. I'm not going to go into this any further.
It's not proper for me to speak for TrollTech, nor is it proper for you to
deride their product in a forum such as this where it is not appropriate
for them to defend their product. You can go elsewhere and hash it out,
but I don't think I'll follow.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.[/color]
>
> I don't really care about that. There's no OS other than Windows (desktop
> and CE) that my target audience uses, so it would be a bad move to not use
> the native toolkit.[/color]

Fine. That's your business. I wasn't offering the advice to you.

--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[richard.forrest1]

Re: C going to C++


"Chris Fogelklou" <chris.fogelklo u@comhem.se> wrote in message
news:t%Tbc.5513 3$mU6.230362@ne wsb.telia.net.. .
[color=blue]
> Also check out wxWindows, a cross platform C++ GUI library that can be
> compiled in MSVC, GCC, mingw, or any other compiler for many platforms.
>
> It has plenty of good examples to walk through, compiles natively on your
> chosen platform, and lets you focus on the C++ coding rather than the
> graphics.[/color]

wxWindows has recently changed its name to wxWidgets after a request from
Microsoft.

That aside, it is an excellent GUI library for cross-platform work, as all
work should be ;-)
It is also opensource and may be downloaded from www.wxwidgets.com

Richard

[richard.forrest1]

Re: C going to C++


"Chris Fogelklou" <chris.fogelklo u@comhem.se> wrote in message
news:t%Tbc.5513 3$mU6.230362@ne wsb.telia.net.. .
[color=blue]
> Also check out wxWindows, a cross platform C++ GUI library that can be
> compiled in MSVC, GCC, mingw, or any other compiler for many platforms.
>
> It has plenty of good examples to walk through, compiles natively on your
> chosen platform, and lets you focus on the C++ coding rather than the
> graphics.[/color]

wxWindows has recently changed its name to wxWidgets after a request from
Microsoft.

That aside, it is an excellent GUI library for cross-platform work, as all
work should be ;-)
It is also opensource and may be downloaded from www.wxwidgets.com

Richard

[Pete]

Re: GUI Programming for Beginners. Re: C going to C++

Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=blue]
> Pete wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Steven T. Hatton wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Pete wrote:[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Signals, slots, and other junk.[/color]
>
> They are merely shorthand for code produced by moc. You can read the
> code, and it is all standard C++.[/color]

Then why not use real C++ in the first place? It's not hard to have similar
mechinisms.
[color=blue]
> I'm not going to go into this any
> further. It's not proper for me to speak for TrollTech, nor is it
> proper for you to deride their product in a forum such as this where
> it is not appropriate for them to defend their product. You can go
> elsewhere and hash it out, but I don't think I'll follow.[/color]

Sorry I came across as deriding their product, that wasn't my intention.
I was just expressing dislike for Qt, in the same manner you have expressed
dislike of Windows. Remember, MS reps don't come here either.
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> But the really nice thing is, you don't even need to use Windows.[/color]
>>
>> I don't really care about that. There's no OS other than Windows
>> (desktop and CE) that my target audience uses, so it would be a bad
>> move to not use the native toolkit.[/color]
>
> Fine. That's your business. I wasn't offering the advice to you.[/color]

Good point. Maybe I should suggest wxWidgets instead of WTL, to be PC.

IMVHO, though, unless you're specifically targetting a niche market that
uses OSs like Linux, I feel it's better to use a toolkit like WTL that is
made from the ground up for the OS that 90% of the general computer users
use.

Also, IIRC WTL is open source also, though.

- Pete