initialization vs assignment

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
>
> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]

Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.

With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all over
the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.

It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first place,
but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US population, but also
many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have any
technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented university.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
>
> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]

Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.

With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all over
the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.

It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first place,
but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US population, but also
many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have any
technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented university.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

"Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> wrote...[color=blue]
> Victor Bazarov wrote:
>[color=green]
> > "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> wrote...[color=darkred]
> >> Victor Bazarov wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Charles Stapleton" <cStapleton@no. junk> wrote...
> >> >> Given the folowing class
> >> >>
> >> >> class Ctest{
> >> >> public:
> >> >> Ctest( int i, int j) :a(i) { b = j; }
> >> >> private:
> >> >> int a, b;
> >> >> }
> >> >>
> >> >> When creating an object of type Ctest, what advantage is there to[/color]
> > setting[color=darkred]
> >> >> the member variables a and b using initialization, :a(i), as opposed
> >> >> to using assignment, b = j.
> >> >
> >> > This is answered in the FAQ Lite (you can find it if you follow the
> >> > link http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/). Please read the FAQ
> >> > before posting.
> >> >
> >> > Victor
> >> Why?[/color]
> > Because[/color]
>
> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]

It could just as well be taken at its face value. What's your F point?

[Victor Bazarov]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

"Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> wrote...[color=blue]
> Victor Bazarov wrote:
>[color=green]
> > "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> wrote...[color=darkred]
> >> Victor Bazarov wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Charles Stapleton" <cStapleton@no. junk> wrote...
> >> >> Given the folowing class
> >> >>
> >> >> class Ctest{
> >> >> public:
> >> >> Ctest( int i, int j) :a(i) { b = j; }
> >> >> private:
> >> >> int a, b;
> >> >> }
> >> >>
> >> >> When creating an object of type Ctest, what advantage is there to[/color]
> > setting[color=darkred]
> >> >> the member variables a and b using initialization, :a(i), as opposed
> >> >> to using assignment, b = j.
> >> >
> >> > This is answered in the FAQ Lite (you can find it if you follow the
> >> > link http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/). Please read the FAQ
> >> > before posting.
> >> >
> >> > Victor
> >> Why?[/color]
> > Because[/color]
>
> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]

It could just as well be taken at its face value. What's your F point?

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[color=blue]
> * "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=green]
>>
>> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
>> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]
>
> Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.
>
> With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
> offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all
> over the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.
>
> It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first
> place, but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US
> population, but also
> many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
> current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
> like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have
> any
> technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
> called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented
> university.
>[/color]

It's not the idea of pointing people to the FAQ that I was addressing. It
was the confrontational undercurrent that seems to lie just below the
surface. Say the wrong thing on the newsgroup and the next thing you know,
you'll have someone going berserk and using profanity in some kind of flame
attacking not only you, but your country, and who knows what else.

Sorry if I don't follow suit by attacking your country. AFAIK, there are
many good people in Norway whom I don't wish to offend.

But the FAQ, does address this issue. Please take a look at the FAQ before
replying. I believe you might find the discussion enlightening.
--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[color=blue]
> * "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=green]
>>
>> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
>> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]
>
> Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.
>
> With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
> offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all
> over the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.
>
> It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first
> place, but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US
> population, but also
> many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
> current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
> like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have
> any
> technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
> called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented
> university.
>[/color]

It's not the idea of pointing people to the FAQ that I was addressing. It
was the confrontational undercurrent that seems to lie just below the
surface. Say the wrong thing on the newsgroup and the next thing you know,
you'll have someone going berserk and using profanity in some kind of flame
attacking not only you, but your country, and who knows what else.

Sorry if I don't follow suit by attacking your country. AFAIK, there are
many good people in Norway whom I don't wish to offend.

But the FAQ, does address this issue. Please take a look at the FAQ before
replying. I believe you might find the discussion enlightening.
--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>[color=green]
> > * "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> >> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]
> >
> > Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.
> >
> > With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
> > offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all
> > over the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.
> >
> > It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first
> > place, but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US
> > population, but also
> > many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
> > current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
> > like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have
> > any
> > technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
> > called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented
> > university.
> >[/color]
>
> It's not the idea of pointing people to the FAQ that I was addressing. It
> was the confrontational undercurrent that seems to lie just below the
> surface. Say the wrong thing on the newsgroup and the next thing you know,
> you'll have someone going berserk and using profanity in some kind of flame
> attacking not only you, but your country, and who knows what else.[/color]

Hah, one should never needlessly limit an attack to person and country, as I
am sure your mother told you.

[color=blue]
> Sorry if I don't follow suit by attacking your country. AFAIK, there are
> many good people in Norway whom I don't wish to offend.[/color]

Yada yada yada, "AFAIK there are many good negroes, jews, japs, frogs, etc.,
and one of my best friends is a lesbian". Actually there are. One of the
nice things about Norway is the humanitarian outlook (it's nice in general,
but as commented earlier not so good with respect to technical education).
E.g. we were early (1981) with having a female prime minister (Gro Harlem
Brundtland, <url: http://tinyurl.com/26x63>); then a female and lesbian
minister of justice (Anne Holt, who now mainly writes detective novels, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/34uby>, <url: http://tinyurl.com/yuqcc>), and currently a
male homosexual minister of economy (Per-Kristian Foss, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/3fsdm>) with a priest (Kjell Magne Bondevik, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/2azkv>) as prime minister -- we're simply not bigots, we
don't have that in us, but look at the US... When is the first lesbian
president or even member of Congress expected in the US? Never, I think;
and to take but one little example from current political debate, note that
in Per-Kristian Foss' official CV (from the Norwegian government), referred
above, he lives in a registered partnership -- when is that in the US?

[color=blue]
> But the FAQ, does address this issue. Please take a look at the FAQ before
> replying. I believe you might find the discussion enlightening.[/color]

RTFM on topicality.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>[color=green]
> > * "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=darkred]
> >>
> >> It seems to me 'Please read the FAQ before posting' could be taken as
> >> 'Please RTFFAQ'.[/color]
> >
> > Just spell it out: Read The Fucking Manual.
> >
> > With prudish & easily offended Americans (who, without noticing any of it,
> > offend all others not by their choice of words but by their actions) all
> > over the net, however, it is perhaps best not asserted in that form.
> >
> > It's a mystery to me how MIT could set up the RTFM site in the first
> > place, but then MIT has not only the best & brightest of the US
> > population, but also
> > many bright people from the rest of the world. I am quite sure that in
> > current Norway, striving to be more American than the Americans, something
> > like the RTFM could never have been set up. But then we no longer have
> > any
> > technical educational institutions left in Norway -- the miniature MIT
> > called NTH was, a few years ago, subsumed by a humanities oriented
> > university.
> >[/color]
>
> It's not the idea of pointing people to the FAQ that I was addressing. It
> was the confrontational undercurrent that seems to lie just below the
> surface. Say the wrong thing on the newsgroup and the next thing you know,
> you'll have someone going berserk and using profanity in some kind of flame
> attacking not only you, but your country, and who knows what else.[/color]

Hah, one should never needlessly limit an attack to person and country, as I
am sure your mother told you.

[color=blue]
> Sorry if I don't follow suit by attacking your country. AFAIK, there are
> many good people in Norway whom I don't wish to offend.[/color]

Yada yada yada, "AFAIK there are many good negroes, jews, japs, frogs, etc.,
and one of my best friends is a lesbian". Actually there are. One of the
nice things about Norway is the humanitarian outlook (it's nice in general,
but as commented earlier not so good with respect to technical education).
E.g. we were early (1981) with having a female prime minister (Gro Harlem
Brundtland, <url: http://tinyurl.com/26x63>); then a female and lesbian
minister of justice (Anne Holt, who now mainly writes detective novels, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/34uby>, <url: http://tinyurl.com/yuqcc>), and currently a
male homosexual minister of economy (Per-Kristian Foss, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/3fsdm>) with a priest (Kjell Magne Bondevik, <url:
http://tinyurl.com/2azkv>) as prime minister -- we're simply not bigots, we
don't have that in us, but look at the US... When is the first lesbian
president or even member of Congress expected in the US? Never, I think;
and to take but one little example from current political debate, note that
in Per-Kristian Foss' official CV (from the Norwegian government), referred
above, he lives in a registered partnership -- when is that in the US?

[color=blue]
> But the FAQ, does address this issue. Please take a look at the FAQ before
> replying. I believe you might find the discussion enlightening.[/color]

RTFM on topicality.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Steven T. Hatton]

OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[color=blue]
> RTFM on topicality.[/color]
I trust you can find a Norwegian translation of the Hávamál by starting
here: http://www.forn-sed.no/main/nynorsk/informasjon.htm

From the Old Norse:

9. Sá er sæll
er sjálfr of á
lof ok vit, meðan lifir;
því at ill ráð
hefr maðr oft þegit
annars brjóstum ór.

10. Byrði betri
berr-at maðr brautu at
en sé mannvit mikit;
auði betra
þykkir þat í ókunnum stað;
slíkt er válaðs vera.

11. Byrði betri
berr-at maðr brautu at
en sé mannvit mikit;
vegnest verra
vegr-a hann velli at
en sé ofdrykkja öls.

12. Er-a svá gótt
sem gótt kveða
öl alda sonum,
því at færa veit
er fleira drekkr
síns til geðs gumi.

13. Óminnishegri heitir
sá er yfir ölðrum þrumir;
hann stelr geði guma;
þess fugls fjöðrum
ek fjötraðr vark
í garði Gunnlaðar.
--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Steven T. Hatton]

OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[color=blue]
> RTFM on topicality.[/color]
I trust you can find a Norwegian translation of the Hávamál by starting
here: http://www.forn-sed.no/main/nynorsk/informasjon.htm

From the Old Norse:

9. Sá er sæll
er sjálfr of á
lof ok vit, meðan lifir;
því at ill ráð
hefr maðr oft þegit
annars brjóstum ór.

10. Byrði betri
berr-at maðr brautu at
en sé mannvit mikit;
auði betra
þykkir þat í ókunnum stað;
slíkt er válaðs vera.

11. Byrði betri
berr-at maðr brautu at
en sé mannvit mikit;
vegnest verra
vegr-a hann velli at
en sé ofdrykkja öls.

12. Er-a svá gótt
sem gótt kveða
öl alda sonum,
því at færa veit
er fleira drekkr
síns til geðs gumi.

13. Óminnishegri heitir
sá er yfir ölðrum þrumir;
hann stelr geði guma;
þess fugls fjöðrum
ek fjötraðr vark
í garði Gunnlaðar.
--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
>
> I trust you can find a Norwegian translation of the Hávamál[/color]

The English translation is actually more understandable.

Have you considered verses 1 through 8, not just 9 through 13? ;-)

Seriously, please don't more times suggest that the ordinary and polite
way to steer someone to the FAQ -- as Victor did -- is equivalent to
RTFFAQ. What you did there was to break two rules for visitors to the
house. Hinting (it seemed like) about Victor's motives, like "so you
really meant [bad thing]", and second, like "your customs are ungood".

Now I've tried both humor, low-intensity flaming and simple explanation.

I should perhaps have tried the last first, but done is done.


Cheers,

- Alf

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

* "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=blue]
>
> I trust you can find a Norwegian translation of the Hávamál[/color]

The English translation is actually more understandable.

Have you considered verses 1 through 8, not just 9 through 13? ;-)

Seriously, please don't more times suggest that the ordinary and polite
way to steer someone to the FAQ -- as Victor did -- is equivalent to
RTFFAQ. What you did there was to break two rules for visitors to the
house. Hinting (it seemed like) about Victor's motives, like "so you
really meant [bad thing]", and second, like "your customs are ungood".

Now I've tried both humor, low-intensity flaming and simple explanation.

I should perhaps have tried the last first, but done is done.


Cheers,

- Alf

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

PS: My information about the US Congress turned out to be out of date.
It actually had Tammy Baldwin in 1998. So my guess was partially
incorrect.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Alf P. Steinbach]

Re: OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

PS: My information about the US Congress turned out to be out of date.
It actually had Tammy Baldwin in 1998. So my guess was partially
incorrect.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Steven T. Hatton]

Re: OT: Re: [FAQ] Re: initialization vs assignment

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[color=blue]
> * "Steven T. Hatton" <susudata@setid ava.kushan.aa> schriebt:[color=green]
>>
>> I trust you can find a Norwegian translation of the Hávamál[/color]
>
> The English translation is actually more understandable.[/color]

They all seem lacking to me. I prefer the Old Norse.
[color=blue]
> Have you considered verses 1 through 8, not just 9 through 13? ;-)[/color]

Certainly, but they didn't seem as apropos.
[color=blue]
> Seriously, please don't more times suggest that the ordinary and polite
> way to steer someone to the FAQ -- as Victor did -- is equivalent to
> RTFFAQ.[/color]

I didn't say it was equivalent. I said it might be taken that way.
[color=blue]
> What you did there was to break two rules for visitors to the
> house. Hinting (it seemed like) about Victor's motives, like "so you
> really meant [bad thing]", and second, like "your customs are ungood".[/color]

I still don't fully understand /why/ m_x(x) works in the following:

#include <iostream>

class A {
int m_x;
public:
A(int x):m_x(x){};
int getX(){return m_x; };
};

int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {
A a(5);
std::cout << a.getX() << std::endl;
}
[color=blue]
> Now I've tried both humor, low-intensity flaming and simple explanation.
>
> I should perhaps have tried the last first, but done is done.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf[/color]

What Gore really meant when he pointed to his work with the Internet was not
that he invented the Internet - which he never said - but that he did a lot
to popularize it, and disseminate information about the use of web browsers
to people in prominant and influential positions. I set up the systems he
use to do it.


--
p->m == (*p).m == p[0].m

http://www.kdevelop.org

http://www.suse.com

http://www.mozilla.org