Accelerated C++ book outdated?

[David Rasmussen]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

E. Robert Tisdale wrote:[color=blue]
>
> In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
> *all* of these texts are "outdated".
>[/color]

Where can I read about this? What new things are included?

/David

[David Rasmussen]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

David Rasmussen wrote:[color=blue]
> E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
>> *all* of these texts are "outdated".
>>[/color]
>
> Where can I read about this? What new things are included?
>[/color]

And more importantly: Does any of these changes affect the truthness of
the stuff in AC++?

/David

[Bjarne Stroustrup]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.Robert.Tisda le@jpl.nasa.gov > wrote[color=blue]
> Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
> > AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books.
> > It is an excellent book
> > that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
> > In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
> > which does not change often rather than some proprietary system.[/color]
>
> Exactly how often must the ISO C++ Standard change
> before the current textbooks are "outdated"? :-)[/color]

"about every decade" :-) Actually, the issue is a bit more subtle.
Many books are up-to-date in the sense that they don't use
pre-standard facilities. To me, the bigger issue is whether they
actually take advantage of the developments in standard features,
standard library, and programming techniques over the last decade or
so when they use and teach Standard C++. Many books don't, and present
a 1990-vintage view of C++, or even a 1987-vintage (no templates, no
exceptions, no multiple inheritance) view.
[color=blue]
> Should I got out and buy a new copy of
> "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition"
> to replace the worn and dogeared copy that I am using now?
> Or should I wait for the "Fourth Edition"?[/color]

Obviously, I won't discourage a replacement :-) but the contents
wouldn't be the reason. There is no need for a 4th edition for another
while yet.
[color=blue]
> I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
> would appreciate a little guidance here.
> She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
> that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
> publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
> Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
> of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerate d C++"?[/color]

Don't expect replacements for another three or 4 years. These two
books are still describing Standard C++ as defined and shipped, and
still describe styles of use that are in advance of much current
practice.

That's fact, what's opinion is that those two books are among the very
best available for their purposes.

-- Bjarne Stroustrup; http://www.research.att.com/~bs

[Peter Koch Larsen]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?


"David Rasmussen" <david.rasmusse n@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:buobr5$29b $2@news.net.uni-c.dk...[color=blue]
> E. Robert Tisdale wrote:[color=green]
> >[color=darkred]
> >> but she replied saying that it might be outdated
> >> since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.[/color]
> >
> > That's probably correct.
> >[/color]
>
> Why??
>[color=green]
> >[color=darkred]
> >> What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
> >> you already have programming experience
> >> in another programming language?[/color]
> >
> > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
> >[/color]
>
> This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
> I'd still say AC++.
>
> /David
>[/color]

I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++ was
the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to C++,
including historical background and paradigms.
Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
the extracts, I've read).

/Peter

[Andrew Koenig]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?


"Markus Dreyer" <spamgoeshere@s pam.com> wrote in message
news:opr147locg v3hdwn@news.jhu .edu...
[color=blue]
> I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
>
> Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
> by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
> http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
>
> but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
> 2000, and therefore not worth buying.[/color]

It isn't out of date.

In fact, there are some statements (those having to do with
value-initialization) in the book that were not quite true of the C++1998
standard, but are correct for the C++2003 standard. Barbara and I made a
guess that the standard was going to be revised and wrote those parts of the
book so that they referred to the revision. We also took pains to be sure
that all of the examples in the book would work with both the C++1998 and
C++2003 standards.

[Andrew Koenig]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

> > Where can I read about this? What new things are included?[color=blue][color=green]
> >[/color]
>
> And more importantly: Does any of these changes affect the truthness of
> the stuff in AC++?[/color]

You can find the complete list of changes here:

https://www.acceleratedcpp.com/authors/koenig/c++std/revisions.pdf

To my knowledge, the only effect that these changes have on AC++ is to
transform some previously false statements into true ones :-) That is, the
book anticipated some of the changes.

[David Rasmussen]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

Peter Koch Larsen wrote:[color=blue]
>
> I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++ was
> the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
> C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to C++,
> including historical background and paradigms.
> Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
> the extracts, I've read).
>[/color]

The advice is lousy because even if TC++PL is an excellent book, AC++ is
just much more excellent when it comes to _learning_ C++. I am not
saying that you can't learn C++ from TC++PL. A lot of people did,
including you. I am just saying that as good as it might be for that
purpose, AC++ is much better. It is not as complete as TC++PL, and not
as good as a reference. But it is much more to the point when it comes
to teaching good habits and avoiding pitfalls.

I have both books, and they're equally excellent in their niche:
teaching and reference.

I recommend you read and absorb AC++ first, then TC++PL. "The Design And
Evolution Of C++" is also a very exciting read.

/David

/David

[Andrew Koenig]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

"E. Robert Tisdale" <E.Robert.Tisda le@jpl.nasa.gov > wrote in message
news:400F4E05.3 040107@jpl.nasa .gov...
[color=blue]
> I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
> would appreciate a little guidance here.
> She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
> that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
> publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
> Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
> of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerate d C++"?[/color]

Barbara and I are not working on any substantial revisions to "Accelerate d
C++." When mistakes are brought to our attention, we shall, as we have in
the past, correct those mistakes in subsequent printings.

My most recent publishing project doesn't actually include my name anywhere,
but I had my hand in it anyway:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0470846747

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470846747

Barbara and I are both working on other books; I hope you'll hear about them
later this year.

[jeffc]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?


"Peter Koch Larsen" <pkl@mailme.d k> wrote in message
news:400fe4e6$0 $1597$edfadb0f@ dread14.news.te le.dk...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > >
> > >> What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
> > >> you already have programming experience
> > >> in another programming language?
> > >
> > > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
> > >[/color]
> > This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
> > I'd still say AC++.[/color]
>
> I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++[/color]
was[color=blue]
> the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
> C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to[/color]
C++,[color=blue]
> including historical background and paradigms.
> Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
> the extracts, I've read).[/color]

As Mr. Stroustrup himself just acknowledged, both books are good "for their
purposes". TCPL and Accelerated C++ are different books and I think most
programmers should have both, but a reference by definition is not the best
book with which to "learn C++ quickly", which is what the OP was
specifically looking for. The books themselves state their intended
purposes: Accelerated C++ is to help you in writing C++ programs quickly.
It even refers specifically to TCPL for those who want "more". TCPL is
broader and more detailed to help those who want to achieve "mastery". I'm
happy it worked for you, but I disagree with your advice too.

[jeffc]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?


"David Rasmussen" <david.rasmusse n@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:buoqrf$8is $1@news.net.uni-c.dk...[color=blue]
>
> I recommend you read and absorb AC++ first, then TC++PL. "The Design And
> Evolution Of C++" is also a very exciting read.[/color]

Yes but make sure you keep it under your mattress so no one discovers
it......

[David Rasmussen]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

jeffc wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Yes but make sure you keep it under your mattress so no one discovers
> it......
>[/color]

LOL...

/David

[Jerry Coffin]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

In article <400F1B38.50109 06@jpl.nasa.gov >,
E.Robert.Tisdal e@jpl.nasa.gov says...

[ ... ]
[color=blue]
> In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
> *all* of these texts are "outdated".[/color]

The basic idea here is incorrect. The standard has been updated, but
only minimally so, and most of the changes are merely to make the
standard actually require what was intended in the first place.

A book would only be rendered obsolete if some of the information it
gave became incorrect or out of date, and the recent changes are
unlikely to do that with most books -- the most they'd do is render
obsolete a footnote in a few that says something like "technicall y, the
memory of a vector isn't _required_ to be contiguous, but it always is
anyway.", because now it IS required to be contiguous. That, right
there, is probably the single most visible change in the standard, which
gives an indication of just how subtle most of the changes really were
(and gives an indication of how good a job the committee did in the
first place, getting that large and complex a document so accurate that
even after years of intense study, only such minor defects have been
found).

--
Later,
Jerry.

The universe is a figment of its own imagination.

[Attila Feher]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

Markus Dreyer wrote:[color=blue]
> I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
>
> Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
> by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
> http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
>
> but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
> 2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just
> saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's
> outdated? Is a new version planned? What is the best current book to
> learn C++ quickly given you already have programming experience in
> another prog. language?[/color]

It is not outdated. You need to find a politically correct way to tell you
secretary to make decisions in her competence area only. I am sure that
Accelerated C++ is not outdated a tiny bit, its content is A OK, even with
the 2003 revision of the standard. Which was mainly a "bug fix" revision,
making original intent obvious.

--
Attila aka WW

[Attila Feher]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

E. Robert Tisdale wrote:[color=blue]
> Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
>[color=green]
>> E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.[/color]
>>
>> The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was
>> finalized. There are a number of places where statements in the
>> third edition do not agree with the standard (addressed thoroughly
>> on Bjarne's website.)
>>
>> The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.
>>
>> All three are excellent.
>> The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is ridiculous.[/color]
>
> In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
> *all* of these texts are "outdated".[/color]

False. There is no C++ standard out, which you could call *new*. There is
a Technical Corrigendum added to the existing standard to clarify its
original content.

--
Attila aka WW

[Attila Feher]

Re: Accelerated C++ book outdated?

David Rasmussen wrote:[color=blue]
> Jonathan Turkanis wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book
>> on C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from
>> 2000. However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
>>[/color]
>
> What are the changes?[/color]

There are no changes, only "bug fixes", making the original intent clear.
Andrew Koenig has an unofficial list of changes on his web (search
comp.std.c++ for the announcement) or you can buy the PDF version of the
2003 standard at the ANSI store for 18USD.

--
Attila aka WW