Microsoft certificate

[=?Utf-8?B?Q2hyaXN0aWFuIEhhdmVs?=]

Hi,

I am looking for some informations about the prestige from Microsofts
certifications (MCTS) in the industry.

Which experience do you have?

Thanks
Christian

[Duggi]

Re: Microsoft certificate

On Nov 18, 6:35 am, Christian Havel
<ChristianHa... @discussions.mi crosoft.comwrot e:

Hi,
>
I am looking for some informations about the prestige from Microsofts
certifications (MCTS) in the industry.
>
Which experience do you have?
>
Thanks
Christian

Hi Christian,

I was surprised by knowing that I just need to pay some money to get
this certificate!!! The institution, where these exams were held, told
me, "some one will write the exam... thats not important... you just
pay money... we will make sure that a certificate is given to
you....". I rather happy with out a certification and IMH Experience,
no one asked me about the certification I had...

May be I gone through a strange experience...

Cnu

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Re: Microsoft certificate

"Johnson" <A@B.comwrote in message
news:OXfzsjZSJH A.4504@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

I have several certifications from Microsoft, including MCSD, MCDBA, MCSE,
and a couple MCTS (Windows and Web) - 19 exams passed in total. AND NOBODY
CARES.

You are completely correct. Microsoft "certifications " are a total and utter
waste of time and money. There are two reasons for this: 1) they don't
actually prove that you know anything other than how to retain a collection
of useless minutiae for a few hours and 2) the entire set of questions and
answers for every MCP is readily available from any number of websites...

The group that seems most "impressed" are the brokers/head hunters.

The reason for this is that they generally know nothing about IT recruitment
and simply have neither the time nor the expertise to interview and test
candidates properly, so "Bill's got three MCPs and Fred's got two MCPs"
provides them a very simple method of grading candidates.

I do a fair amount of technical interviewing and technical testing of IT
personnel both contract and permanent, and I have a general rule that anyone
with more than 10 MCPs goes straight in the bin. This has come from years of
interviewing people who are very good at passing exams but have little or no
practical experience.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks that a whole slew of useless
certifications is going to impress me is not someone I'd want to recommend
for employment. No doubt there are exceptions - I haven't met one yet...


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP

http://www.markrae.net

[DH]

Re: Microsoft certificate

Mark Rae [MVP] wrote:

"Johnson" <A@B.comwrote in message
news:OXfzsjZSJH A.4504@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...
>

>I have several certifications from Microsoft, including MCSD, MCDBA,
>MCSE, and a couple MCTS (Windows and Web) - 19 exams passed in total.
>AND NOBODY CARES.

>
You are completely correct. Microsoft "certifications " are a total and
utter waste of time and money. There are two reasons for this: 1) they
don't actually prove that you know anything other than how to retain a
collection of useless minutiae for a few hours and 2) the entire set of
questions and answers for every MCP is readily available from any number
of websites...
>

>The group that seems most "impressed" are the brokers/head hunters.

>
The reason for this is that they generally know nothing about IT
recruitment and simply have neither the time nor the expertise to
interview and test candidates properly, so "Bill's got three MCPs and
Fred's got two MCPs" provides them a very simple method of grading
candidates.
>
I do a fair amount of technical interviewing and technical testing of IT
personnel both contract and permanent, and I have a general rule that
anyone with more than 10 MCPs goes straight in the bin. This has come
from years of interviewing people who are very good at passing exams but
have little or no practical experience.
>
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks that a whole slew of useless
certifications is going to impress me is not someone I'd want to
recommend for employment. No doubt there are exceptions - I haven't met
one yet...
>
>

Mark I agree with you completely regarding Microsoft certificates. But I
want to get your opinion on Oracle Certificates. Do you value them the
same as Microsoft certificates?

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Re: Microsoft certificate

"DH" <I.dont.need@mo re.spamwrote in message
news:unHAx7aSJH A.4452@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...

>As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks that a whole slew of useless
>certificatio ns is going to impress me is not someone I'd want to
>recommend for employment. No doubt there are exceptions - I haven't met
>one yet...
>>

Mark I agree with you completely regarding Microsoft certificates. But I
want to get your opinion on Oracle Certificates. Do you value them the
same as Microsoft certificates?

I just checked one of the exam cheat sites I mentioned and, apart from every
Microsoft MCP, they also offered over 50 Oracle certifications at $14 each,
or the whole lot for $59.

As with their MCP cheats, you basically get the entire pool of questions and
answers for the certification that you're buying. Their site claims that
most people need around 12 hours to memorise enough of them to pass the
exam.

I trust that answers your question...


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP

http://www.markrae.net

[Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )]

Re: Microsoft certificate

On Nov 18, 2:05 pm, "Mark Rae [MVP]" <m...@markNOSPA Mrae.netwrote:

"DH" <I.dont.n...@mo re.spamwrote in message
>
news:unHAx7aSJH A.4452@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
>

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks that a whole slew of useless
certifications is going to impress me is not someone I'd want to
recommend for employment. No doubt there are exceptions - I haven't met
one yet...

>

Mark I agree with you completely regarding Microsoft certificates. But I
want to get your opinion on Oracle Certificates. Do you value them the
same as Microsoft certificates?

>
I just checked one of the exam cheat sites I mentioned and, apart from every
Microsoft MCP, they also offered over 50 Oracle certifications at $14 each,
or the whole lot for $59.

I think this is something that happen for every certification out
there.
I also am of the opinion that they are a waste of time, unfortunatelly
some manager still see them and put some values on it, but for all
technical purposes they are useless

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Re: Microsoft certificate

"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.machin @gmail.comwrote in
message
news:37325ea0-eb1f-4734-9e4e-163357313756@r3 6g2000prf.googl egroups.com...

>I just checked one of the exam cheat sites I mentioned and, apart from
>every
>Microsoft MCP, they also offered over 50 Oracle certifications at $14
>each,
>or the whole lot for $59.

>
I think this is something that happen for every certification out
there.

No doubt.

I also am of the opinion that they are a waste of time, unfortunately
some managers still see them and put some values on them, but for all
technical purposes they are useless.

Indeed. You also have to ask yourself if you'd really want to work for
anyone who would employ someone because of their MCPs...


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP

http://www.markrae.net

[=?UTF-8?B?QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq?=]

Re: Microsoft certificate

Christian Havel wrote:

I am looking for some informations about the prestige from Microsofts
certifications (MCTS) in the industry.
>
Which experience do you have?

I have a slightly different view than many of the other
replies.

There are several perspectives:

1) Knowledge

If you memorizes (possible from a cheat sheet) the week
before the test and are only interested in getting the
certificate, then you will learn very little.

But if you are truly interested in learning and study
the books and do exercises as intended, then you can
learn a lot.

2) Getting a job

It can help you get through HR - especially if you do not
have a long formal IT education. And you can not explain
what you really can unless you get picked for interview,
where there somebody that actually knows something about
IT.

Furthermore some companies need to have X certified in Y
to get some desired status with Microsoft and therefore
have to prefer candidates with certificates.

3) Hiring the right person

If people have certificates then you can count on
them being one of:
- truly interested in learning
- efficient in bullshitting

You can not really use it as an important criteria
for hiring. You will need to talk to them and
find out what the really can.

4) Prestige

A lot of people have them, so I don't think the carry that
much prestige.

And reading the other replies does not convince me otherwise !

:-)

Arne

PS: I am not certified myself.

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Re: Microsoft certificate

Mark Rae [MVP] wrote:

"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.machin @gmail.comwrote in
message
news:37325ea0-eb1f-4734-9e4e-163357313756@r3 6g2000prf.googl egroups.com...

>I also am of the opinion that they are a waste of time, unfortunately
>some managers still see them and put some values on them, but for all
>technical purposes they are useless.

>
Indeed. You also have to ask yourself if you'd really want to work for
anyone who would employ someone because of their MCPs...

You will cut yourself off from a lot of interesting jobs if you
will not work for a company that does X, Y or Z.

Arne

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

Re: Microsoft certificate

"Arne Vajhøj" <arne@vajhoej.d kwrote in message
news:49238934$0 $90276$14726298 @news.sunsite.d k...

>"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.machin @gmail.comwrote in
>message
>news:37325ea 0-eb1f-4734-9e4e-163357313756@r3 6g2000prf.googl egroups.com...

>>I also am of the opinion that they are a waste of time, unfortunately
>>some managers still see them and put some values on them, but for all
>>technical purposes they are useless.

>>
>Indeed. You also have to ask yourself if you'd really want to work for
>anyone who would employ someone because of their MCPs...

>
You will cut yourself off from a lot of interesting jobs if you
will not work for a company that does X, Y or Z.

I wouldn't be able to work for a company which requires MCPs anyway, as I
don't have any... :-)


--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP

http://www.markrae.net

[=?Utf-8?B?Q2hyaXN0aWFuIEhhdmVs?=]

Thank you all

Hi NG,

thank you very much for yours feedback.

Christian



"Duggi" wrote:

On Nov 18, 6:35 am, Christian Havel
<ChristianHa... @discussions.mi crosoft.comwrot e:

Hi,

I am looking for some informations about the prestige from Microsofts
certifications (MCTS) in the industry.

Which experience do you have?

Thanks
Christian

>
Hi Christian,
>
I was surprised by knowing that I just need to pay some money to get
this certificate!!! The institution, where these exams were held, told
me, "some one will write the exam... thats not important... you just
pay money... we will make sure that a certificate is given to
you....". I rather happy with out a certification and IMH Experience,
no one asked me about the certification I had...
>
May be I gone through a strange experience...
>
Cnu
>
>