Windows app or ASP.NET ?

[Alan T]

I am not sure which way to go:
Want to learn C# but C# is implemented both in Windows desktop application
and ASP.NET. I am not familiar with web programming, should I start with
Windows app or ASP .NET?

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
news:%23Ao9nYWA IHA.5960@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

>I am not sure which way to go:
Want to learn C# but C# is implemented both in Windows desktop application
and ASP.NET. I am not familiar with web programming, should I start with
Windows app or ASP .NET?
>

Why not both?

- Michael Starberg

[Alan T]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

I would love to but I need to get started from choosing one of them first
anyway.

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:OXgcThWAIH A.3848@TK2MSFTN GP05.phx.gbl...

"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
news:%23Ao9nYWA IHA.5960@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

I am not sure which way to go:
Want to learn C# but C# is implemented both in Windows desktop

application

and ASP.NET. I am not familiar with web programming, should I start with
Windows app or ASP .NET?

>
Why not both?
>
- Michael Starberg
>
>

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?


"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
news:u8saV2WAIH A.3900@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>I would love to but I need to get started from choosing one of them first
anyway.
>

First you need to learn to not top-post, if your message is not final.

But I'd start in the middle if I where you,
building a simple webservice, and have a small website and a winapp work
with that.

Why just a master-detail using the Northwnd database.
Some Databinding, GUI-gridding. And maybe some Validation.

Another thing you could do is to do a really slow Tetris,
in a console application. Using Console.Read()
you could redraw the 'game-area' for each move,
and spend time having fun with OO.
maybe IBrick knows when it hits IWall.
Or maybe IGame knows when a brick hits a wall.
Maybe the singleton Floor could raise an event
when it observes that a straight line has been done..

Lousy design, true, but it will get you going...

- Michael Starberg

[Michael A. Covington]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Start with Windows application programming.

I think trying to do both at once would be confusing.

[Michael A. Covington]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:OqgAtTXAIH A.5312@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>
"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
news:u8saV2WAIH A.3900@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>>I would love to but I need to get started from choosing one of them first
>anyway.
>>

>
First you need to learn to not top-post, if your message is not final.

Top-posting has come into wide use for a good reason. I challenge the
anti-top-posting crowd to enumerate the advantages of both bottom- and
top-posting. I'm afraid that for many people nowadays, telling others not
to top-post is merely a way of claiming status.

But I'd start in the middle if I where you,
building a simple webservice, and have a small website and a winapp work
with that.
>
Why just a master-detail using the Northwnd database.
Some Databinding, GUI-gridding. And maybe some Validation.
>
Another thing you could do is to do a really slow Tetris,
in a console application. Using Console.Read()
you could redraw the 'game-area' for each move,
and spend time having fun with OO.
maybe IBrick knows when it hits IWall.
Or maybe IGame knows when a brick hits a wall.
Maybe the singleton Floor could raise an event
when it observes that a straight line has been done..
>
Lousy design, true, but it will get you going...

Are those serious proposals? You seem to be trying to construct unusually
difficult things for a first project.

I generally tell beginners to build a simple interactive Windows app with
some buttons and textboxes; when the button is pressed, have it read the
textboxes, do a calculation, and report the result in another textbox. From
there, it's a simple step to games, graphical display of data, etc.

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?


"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.ed u.for.addresswr ote in message
news:eaoHVcXAIH A.2268@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:OqgAtTXAIH A.5312@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>>
>"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
>news:u8saV2WAI HA.3900@TK2MSFT NGP02.phx.gbl.. .

>>>I would love to but I need to get started from choosing one of them first
>>anyway.
>>>

>>
>First you need to learn to not top-post, if your message is not final.

>
Top-posting has come into wide use for a good reason. I challenge the
anti-top-posting crowd to enumerate the advantages of both bottom- and
top-posting. I'm afraid that for many people nowadays, telling others
not to top-post is merely a way of claiming status.
>

A: Because it ruines the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top-posting bad?

That said, I often top-post.
But then I also clean-up and only leave relevant posts below.

I think it is fair to correct someone, while Alan surely ment no harm.
Also, I think you you are semi-correct on the 'claiming status' thingy.

It is not easy to join a new 'cluster' of friends in any situation.
Doesn't matter if it a rock-festival, a coktail-party or especially,
a usenet-cannel.

If I seems like a bigot to you,
then I semi-apologize for that

>>
>Lousy design, true, but it will get you going...

>
Are those serious proposals? You seem to be trying to construct unusually
difficult things for a first project.

Yes, indeed. I am trying to get the basics of OO across
And this is not doing tetris from scratch in pure c.

If you have read my post, you'd see I asked questions.
Maybe Alan will start with learning how to get just one brick on a window.
Maybe interfaces will make him interested.
Maybe he needs simple OO theory.

>
I generally tell beginners to build a simple interactive Windows app with
some buttons and textboxes; when the button is pressed, have it read the
textboxes, do a calculation, and report the result in another textbox.
From there, it's a simple step to games, graphical display of data, etc.
>
>

Yep yep.
That would be a good start.
But by doing that, what have your pupil really learned?
Except using a mouse and keyboard?

I prefer to throw my pupils in the water
and tell them this would be a good time
to learn how to swim. =)

Alan:
Note that we are talking generally here,
noone is getting wet by force.


- Michael Starberg

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Michael,

This is not a Linux newsgroup. Topposting is the standard in Outlook Express
(Now Windows Mail) as most Microsoft Windows users use for newsgroups.

Bottom posting is in my idea from the previous millenium.

Cor

[Chris Shepherd]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ? [OT - Top-Posting]

Michael A. Covington wrote:

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:OqgAtTXAIH A.5312@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>"Alan T" <alanNOSPAMplts e@yahoo.com.auw rote in message
>news:u8saV2WAI HA.3900@TK2MSFT NGP02.phx.gbl.. .

>>I would love to but I need to get started from choosing one of them first
>>anyway.
>>>

>First you need to learn to not top-post, if your message is not final.

>
Top-posting has come into wide use for a good reason. I challenge the
anti-top-posting crowd to enumerate the advantages of both bottom- and
top-posting. I'm afraid that for many people nowadays, telling others not
to top-post is merely a way of claiming status.

This should really be a separate thread...

What is the "good reason" top-posting is becoming more common?

The cons to top-posting, as far as I'm concerned:
- Counterintuitiv e flow to conversation by convention (at least in
predominantly English speaking groups).
- In point-based analysis/response it fails to address or indicate which
points it relates to.

The primary con (really the only one that strikes me) with
bottom-posting is that if you're thoroughly familiar with the
conversation at hand, sifting through a person's quotes is nuisance.
However, in branching discussions such as Usenet this is handy since you
could jump from one branch in the discussion tree to another.

To summarize:
- Top-posting goes against every reading convention in the
English-speaking world. Print is designed to be read left to right, top
to bottom. Forum software is always designed to show you the most recent
posts at the bottom (by default, anyway). Heck, you even write left to
right, top to bottom.
- Bottom-posting does none of these things, and suits Usenet very well.

As for it being a "claim to status" that probably depends on the
individual posting more than the concept itself, though how you comport
yourself in a verbal fashion tends to indicate your status, so I imagine
to a degree that does apply to written material. Either way, if people
find top-posting confusing, and they say not to do it because it is a
barrier to communication then you probably ought to heed their
suggestions. Especially here in a newsgroup where people are frequently
asking for help.

Chris.

[Michael A. Covington]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:eyxpf7XAIH A.320@TK2MSFTNG P04.phx.gbl...

>I generally tell beginners to build a simple interactive Windows app with
>some buttons and textboxes; when the button is pressed, have it read the
>textboxes, do a calculation, and report the result in another textbox.
>From there, it's a simple step to games, graphical display of data, etc.

Yep yep.
That would be a good start.
But by doing that, what have your pupil really learned?
Except using a mouse and keyboard?

Obviously, they haven't learned much OOP yet. But they also aren't lost.
They have a foundation.

I prefer to throw my pupils in the water
and tell them this would be a good time
to learn how to swim. =)

How many of them drown? One of my goals (and I've been teaching for 27
years) is for everyone to succeed to the best of his/her ability -- for
nobody to get lost unnecessarily. I figure they're *all* paying tuition.

[Chris Shepherd]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Alan T wrote:

I am not sure which way to go:
Want to learn C# but C# is implemented both in Windows desktop application
and ASP.NET. I am not familiar with web programming, should I start with
Windows app or ASP .NET?

As Smithers mentioned, ASP.NET has a few extra complications to it.
Start simple with a WinForms app.

Chris.

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Alan,

Take the one that gives you the most fun. Be aware that you need for ASP.Net
an open ASP.Net server, those are not always provided, you can use your own
computer as it is a professional version, however then your computer is
almost wide open if you have not very strong firewall hard- or software.

Beside that you need then a continuous connection to internet. I live in
Holland where that is common for most people, I assume that this is not
standard in Australia.

Cor

[Alan T]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Thank you very much the advices you all guys have given.
First of all, some threads discussed about my top-post, yes, this is my
habit as a result of my using Outlook Express as newsreader, that's the
default. I only use bottom-post when there are more than 1 previous material
to refer.

I forgot to mention in my original message, I have been programming C# using
VS 2005 for 6 months, but really have not much knowledge about the CSS,
session, web security (although several years ago I worked with web project
using Javascript and HTML).

I agree I should start with Windows application but not sure WHEN I should
start learning ASP .NET?
Can I just buy a book like Beginning ASP.NET with C# that go forward without
through understanding of Javascript, CSS, HTMl, XHTML, sessions,
Ajax.....etc.

Alan,
>
Take the one that gives you the most fun. Be aware that you need for

ASP.Net

an open ASP.Net server, those are not always provided, you can use your

own

computer as it is a professional version, however then your computer is
almost wide open if you have not very strong firewall hard- or software.
>
Beside that you need then a continuous connection to internet. I live in
Holland where that is common for most people, I assume that this is not
standard in Australia.

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.ed u.for.addresswr ote in message
news:uJ%23CtSYA IHA.2268@TK2MSF TNGP04.phx.gbl. ..

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:eyxpf7XAIH A.320@TK2MSFTNG P04.phx.gbl...
>
Obviously, they haven't learned much OOP yet. But they also aren't lost.
They have a foundation.

oki.

>

>I prefer to throw my pupils in the water
>and tell them this would be a good time
>to learn how to swim. =)

>
How many of them drown?

None yet.. that I know of.
I don't count my 'pupils',
so I don't know. *s*

One of my goals (and I've been teaching for 27 years) is for everyone to
succeed to the best of his/her ability -- for nobody to get lost
unnecessarily. I figure they're *all* paying tuition.
>

Sure, but someone who knows what usenet is,
or know how to use google-groups,
probably don't need a teacher,
but a mentor.

I think we can both help
as in this battle of egos,
we kinda forgot someone,

Where is Alan? *s*

- Michael Starberg

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Windows app or ASP.NET ?

Oki. I'll stand down.
What I was trying to say
is that top-posting encourages people not

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.ed u.for.addresswr ote in message
news:uXuF%23gYA IHA.1208@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

Well said, Cor! Top posting is indeed the standard in the world of
threaded newsreaders and very fast news delivery.
>

... to prune below posts.

>
I definitely don't believe computers were perfect in 1980 or that old
traditions should be preserved forever. I *was* using computers in 1980.
Even 1975 (Urbana PLATO) and even 1973 (CDC 6400). :)
>

Please stop giving us hardware-pr0n. I'm drooling. =)

- Michael Starberg