Interview test......

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Interview test......

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.co mwrote in message
news:MPG.2160ec 791a7b00f14af@m snews.microsoft .com...

>
I don't think I'd ever go that far. I applied for my current job like
anyone else would. I've had a few jobs specifically offered to me, but
really not very many at all.

Maybe because the recruiters know you spend all your time here,
and are writing a book on top of that. *S*

But I get the feel that you are 'richer' doing that,
than any silly job-offer might offer.

I think it's reasonable not to trust CVs too far. I've seen a *lot* of
rubbish talked about on CVs. I'd never assume that someone can code
well just because they claim they can. Of course, if they've got sample
code on the net etc,

Nice self-promo

that helps - but it's better to see someone in action.

Double-promo.. Jon is on a killing-spree=)

As usually, jokes aside.
I do indeed like when people go:
- I code in this or that open source project
- I written this about techX on my blog.

>

>This thread is stuck on hiring.
>Real programmers don't get hired,
>they pick where to work.

>
Well, they still have to go for an interview - at least round here.
There was certainly no guarantee I'd get my current job.
>

Well sure.
I was not trying to say that it is the byers market.
Especially not in Sweden.

I was doing this from the employers perspective.
It is easy to hire someone,
but how do you get him/her to stay onboard?

Even if we would adopt slavery,
that would make hiring easy.
I know this for a 'fact',
as I play Civilization 4 way too much.

I am thinking of a dilbert strip where the
PHB points at some area of dilberts monitor
and goes: - Type some good code right there!

>>
>A happy coder is a bug-free coder. =)

>
Well, I'd settle for "a happy coder is a more productive coder" :)
>

Hmm. Not really.
Productivity goes down,
but Effectivity goes up bigtime.
The overall Quality tends to be excellent.

I think we are looking for the word 'gumption',
and I cannot help to think about Zen and The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance

- Michael Starberg

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Re: Interview test......

Michael Starberg <no@no.comwrote :

I don't think I'd ever go that far. I applied for my current job like
anyone else would. I've had a few jobs specifically offered to me, but
really not very many at all.

>
Maybe because the recruiters know you spend all your time here,
and are writing a book on top of that. *S*
>
But I get the feel that you are 'richer' doing that,
than any silly job-offer might offer.

Yeah - I'm very happy doing what I'm doing. I've always enjoyed having
a normal career and a side-line in community work and "extras" like the
book.

I think it's reasonable not to trust CVs too far. I've seen a *lot* of
rubbish talked about on CVs. I'd never assume that someone can code
well just because they claim they can. Of course, if they've got sample
code on the net etc,

>
Nice self-promo

Not intended, I assure you - but when I get a CV, I always try to look
the person up on the net.

that helps - but it's better to see someone in action.

>
Double-promo.. Jon is on a killing-spree=)

Not at all - by "in action", I mean "coding in front of you". If you
only ever see finished code, you've no idea how people think, how they
solve problems etc. The approaches rejected can be just as important as
the final approach taken.

As usually, jokes aside.
I do indeed like when people go:
- I code in this or that open source project
- I written this about techX on my blog.

Yes - I hear that kind of thing far too rarely :(

This thread is stuck on hiring.
Real programmers don't get hired,
they pick where to work.

Well, they still have to go for an interview - at least round here.
There was certainly no guarantee I'd get my current job.

>
Well sure.
I was not trying to say that it is the byers market.
Especially not in Sweden.
>
I was doing this from the employers perspective.
It is easy to hire someone,
but how do you get him/her to stay onboard?

I'd say it's easy to hire someone, but hard to hire someone *good*. I
rarely see a CV which immediately says to me, "Yeah, that's someone
with a spark."

<snip>

A happy coder is a bug-free coder. =)

Well, I'd settle for "a happy coder is a more productive coder" :)

>
Hmm. Not really.
Productivity goes down,
but Effectivity goes up bigtime.
The overall Quality tends to be excellent.

I view productivity as an overall package - not "lines of code written
per day" but including quality and maintainability .

I think we are looking for the word 'gumption',
and I cannot help to think about Zen and The Art Of Motorcycle
Maintenance

Ah, quality...

--
Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Doug Semler]

Re: Interview test......

"Michael Starberg" <no@no.comwro te in message
news:%23XTKEIX$ HHA.5360@TK2MSF TNGP03.phx.gbl. ..

>
A happy coder is a bug-free coder. =)

Every time I hear this i think of the old saying:

Every multiline program can be reduced by at least one line.
Every program has at least one bug.
Therefore, every program can be reduced to one line that doesn't work.

(I think that was from an old unix qotd daemon...)

Boy...this thread got hijacked didn't it <g>


--
Doug Semler, MCPD
a.a. #705, BAAWA. EAC Guardian of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
The answer is 42; DNRC o-
Gur Hfrarg unf orpbzr fb shyy bs penc gurfr qnlf, abbar rira
erpbtavmrf fvzcyr guvatf yvxr ebg13 nalzber. Fnq, vfa'g vg?

[D W]

Re: Interview test......

I recently interview for a job where they asked me how many gas stations
there are in America. I got to an answer (out loud) and the interviewer
sat and worked through my logic with me. Once we were done with that,
he asked me to do it again, but a different way. It actually led to
some pretty interesting conversation. He also asked me to design the
functionality of an elevator, and he wanted to see me write a version of
strrev() (just so he knew I wasn't wasting his time).

One of the more interesting interviews I've ever had.

BTW, there were roughly 121,000 gas stations in America in 2004. The
number I ended up with was 150,000...which wasn't the point, but I still
got pretty close!

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Interview test......


"D W" <gusaroni@hotma il.comwrote in message
news:uShz$DhAIH A.2268@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

>I recently interview for a job where they asked me how many gas stations
there are in America. I got to an answer (out loud) and the interviewer
sat and worked through my logic with me. Once we were done with that,
he asked me to do it again, but a different way. It actually led to
some pretty interesting conversation. He also asked me to design the
functionality of an elevator, and he wanted to see me write a version of
strrev() (just so he knew I wasn't wasting his time).
>
One of the more interesting interviews I've ever had.
>
BTW, there were roughly 121,000 gas stations in America in 2004. The
number I ended up with was 150,000...which wasn't the point, but I still
got pretty close!
>
*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***

Haha, when I was reading this, I thought to myself..
- Hmm. maybe 150'000.

I'd be dead in the water at that interview,
as when he'd asked me how I came up with that number,
and I beleive it is a sin to lie, I'd had to reply
- Just guessed...

- Michael Starberg

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Re: Interview test......

Michael Starberg wrote:

I would never take a coding test.
If they want to hire me, then I ask for a offer.
>
If they ask for a code-example a la Joel,
we start out with a breach of trust, and per so,
I don't want the job.
>
This thread is stuck on hiring.
Real programmers don't get hired,
they pick where to work.

If you can get all the jobs you want, then you are
either extremely skilled (let us call it "Anders Hejlsberg level")
or not very ambitious.

Most people even good people may want the job that pays
better of has this interesting project and are willing
to do a test to get it.

Arne

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Re: Interview test......

D W wrote:

I recently interview for a job where they asked me how many gas stations
there are in America. I got to an answer (out loud) and the interviewer
sat and worked through my logic with me. Once we were done with that,
he asked me to do it again, but a different way. It actually led to
some pretty interesting conversation.

BTW, there were roughly 121,000 gas stations in America in 2004. The
number I ended up with was 150,000...which wasn't the point, but I still
got pretty close!

Actually it may not be a bad interview technique.

It will reveal whether the developer has the ability to think
about real problems.

It is not difficult to learn a programming a language or
an API.

The tricky part is to be able to go from problem to
solution.

Arne

[Michael Starberg]

Re: Interview test......

"Arne Vajhøj" <arne@vajhoej.d kwrote in message
news:47059810$0 $90273$14726298 @news.sunsite.d k...

If you can get all the jobs you want, then you are
either extremely skilled (let us call it "Anders Hejlsberg level")
or not very ambitious.

I agree, master of the obvious.

Most people even good people may want the job that pays
better of has this interesting project and are willing
to do a test to get it.

I agree, master of the obvious.

>
Arne

- Michael Starberg