F# programming language

[Jon Harrop]

Microsoft Research are developing a functional programming language called
F# for .NET and I've been playing with it recently. I've uploaded some
demos here:

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/

I'm keen to see what Windows developers think of this language as we're
considering using it to develop commercial applications on the Windows
platform.

--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
Objective CAML for Scientists

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists

[Christopher Ireland]

Re: F# programming language

"Jon Harrop" <jon@ffconsulta ncy.comwrote in message
news:456574ea$0 $8713$ed2619ec@ ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.n et...

>
Microsoft Research are developing a functional programming language called
F# for .NET and I've been playing with it recently. I've uploaded some
demos here:
>

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/dotnet/fsharp/

>
I'm keen to see what Windows developers think of this language as we're
considering using it to develop commercial applications on the Windows
platform.

F# does seem to fit in better with XAML, conceptually speaking.

Nice examples, although raytracer.fs does not compile under FSharp-1.1.12.5.

Cheers!

Chris.

[Jon Harrop]

Re: F# programming language

Christopher Ireland wrote:

F# does seem to fit in better with XAML, conceptually speaking.

What is XAML good for? I've seen the demo where they say "you don't have to
write code", then they write a load of code in XML and get a window filled
with RSS feed. Does anyone have any better demos of this technology?

I'm a scientist by trade and know virtually nothing about "web programming"
but I'm very interested in learning about it.

Nice examples, although raytracer.fs does not compile under
FSharp-1.1.12.5.

Yeah, I'm on a prerelease 1.1.13.2 which should become publically available
this week. It adds some cool features like comprehensions for lists, arrays
and IEnumerables.

--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
Objective CAML for Scientists

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists

[Christopher Ireland]

Re: F# programming language

"Jon Harrop" <jon@ffconsulta ncy.comwrote in message
news:45658fdb$0 $8720$ed2619ec@ ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.n et...

Christopher Ireland wrote:

>F# does seem to fit in better with XAML, conceptually speaking.

>
What is XAML good for? I've seen the demo where they say "you don't have
to
write code", then they write a load of code in XML and get a window filled
with RSS feed. Does anyone have any better demos of this technology?
>
I'm a scientist by trade and know virtually nothing about "web
programming"
but I'm very interested in learning about it.

I don't think it's just about "web programming". Have a look at this
article:

http://www.informit.com/discussion/index.asp?postid=3ba7dd28-5c97-416b-8179-11fef74b617e&rl=1

I get the impression that is to be used XAML as a functional/declarative
language to enable XML-based documents to become self-describing
applications.

>Nice examples, although raytracer.fs does not compile under
>FSharp-1.1.12.5.

>
Yeah, I'm on a prerelease 1.1.13.2 which should become publically
available
this week. It adds some cool features like comprehensions for lists,
arrays
and IEnumerables.

Nice one!

Cheers!

Chris.

[Laurent Bugnion]

Re: F# programming language

Hi,

Christopher Ireland wrote:

I don't think it's just about "web programming". Have a look at this
article:
>

http://www.informit.com/discussion/index.asp?postid=3ba7dd28-5c97-416b-8179-11fef74b617e&rl=1

I see XAML as a way to encourage graphics designers and software
developer to work more closely together. Pretty much everything you can
do in XAML, you can also do it in C#. However, people who never
programmed will definitely feel intimidated by the C# environment. XAML
will help, because it can easily be generated by Graphics Design
application (like Expression or Zam 3D), can then easily be modified by
a Graphics Designer (for example, animations, etc...), and then passed
to the software developer for code integration (for example DB
connectivity, web services integration, etc...).

And you're absolutely right, XAML is not thought just for web
programming. In fact, AFAIK, Microsoft sees it more as a replacement for
WinForms than for ASP.NET.

HTH,
Laurent
--
Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch

[clintonG]

Re: F# programming language

All this confusion? Its really very simple -- conceptually -- and in fact
simplification of the sublime complexity of logic is the objective. The goal
is to allow line of business analysts who understand the business
initimately to become proficient as application developers. That's all there
is to it for the time being.

This is being accomplished by developing declarative languages that can be
manually edited after or during the use of a push button monkey code
generator. Those who want to know what will come of this trend can (and
probably should) read Isaac Asimov's "Foundation Trilogy" which is the name
his writings were referred to the first couple of times I read these works
in the early 1960s.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee. com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP http://wikimapia.org/#y=43038073&x=-...8&z=17&l=0&m=h

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Foundation_Series


"Laurent Bugnion" <galasoft-lb@bluewin.chwr ote in message
news:%23FrNJHwD HHA.4256@TK2MSF TNGP04.phx.gbl. ..

Hi,
>
Christopher Ireland wrote:

>I don't think it's just about "web programming". Have a look at this
>article:

http://www.informit.com/discussion/index.asp?postid=3ba7dd28-5c97-416b-8179-11fef74b617e&rl=1

>
I see XAML as a way to encourage graphics designers and software developer
to work more closely together. Pretty much everything you can do in XAML,
you can also do it in C#. However, people who never programmed will
definitely feel intimidated by the C# environment. XAML will help, because
it can easily be generated by Graphics Design application (like Expression
or Zam 3D), can then easily be modified by a Graphics Designer (for
example, animations, etc...), and then passed to the software developer
for code integration (for example DB connectivity, web services
integration, etc...).
>
And you're absolutely right, XAML is not thought just for web programming.
In fact, AFAIK, Microsoft sees it more as a replacement for WinForms than
for ASP.NET.
>
HTH,
Laurent
--
Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch

[Lucian Wischik]

Re: F# programming language

Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsulta ncy.comwrote:

>I'm keen to see what Windows developers think of this language as we're
>considering using it to develop commercial applications on the Windows
>platform.

I wrote a recent project in F#: 6,000 lines of code.
But the users required a C# version so I had to rewrite: 30,000 lines
of code to do exactly the same thing.

--
Lucian

[Kevin Spencer]

Re: F# programming language

Hmmm... I always thought that F# was G!

;-)

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Ministry of Software Development

http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

Never trust a dunderhead with a blunderbuss.


"clintonG" <csgallagher@RE MOVETHISTEXTmet romilwaukee.com wrote in message
news:uyGo4GyDHH A.4508@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

All this confusion? Its really very simple -- conceptually -- and in fact

<snip>

>And you're absolutely right, XAML is not thought just for web
>programming. In fact, AFAIK, Microsoft sees it more as a replacement for
>WinForms than for ASP.NET.
>>
>HTH,
>Laurent
>--
>Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
>Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
>Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
>Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch

>
>

[Kevin Spencer]

Re: F# programming language

Oops! I MEANT that I always thought F# was A!

;-)

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Ministry of Software Development

http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

Never trust a dunderhead with a blunderbuss.


"clintonG" <csgallagher@RE MOVETHISTEXTmet romilwaukee.com wrote in message
news:uyGo4GyDHH A.4508@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...

All this confusion? Its really very simple -- conceptually -- and in fact

<snip>

>In fact, AFAIK, Microsoft sees it more as a replacement for WinForms than
>for ASP.NET.
>>
>HTH,
>Laurent
>--
>Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
>Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
>Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
>Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch

>
>

[Kevin Spencer]

Re: F# programming language

No, no, no. I was right the first time!

My musical skills are out of practice!

;-)

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Ministry of Software Development

http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

Never trust a dunderhead with a blunderbuss.

[James Crosswell]

Re: F# programming language

Lucian Wischik wrote:

I wrote a recent project in F#: 6,000 lines of code.
But the users required a C# version so I had to rewrite: 30,000 lines
of code to do exactly the same thing.

Wow! I guess it's a program that lent itself to a functional solution
quite nicely. Why would your users care what language it was written in?

Best Regards,

James Crosswell
Microforge.net LLC

http://www.microforge.net

[James Crosswell]

Re: F# programming language

Laurent Bugnion wrote:

And you're absolutely right, XAML is not thought just for web
programming. In fact, AFAIK, Microsoft sees it more as a replacement for
WinForms than for ASP.NET.

Indeed, one of the main benefits of XAML is that it separates the code
from the interface (so the coders can work on logic while designers work
on interfaces)... Such separation has existing for web based apps, in
one form or another, for years - so the biggest benefits of XAML are
probably for Windows apps.

Best Regards,

James Crosswell
Microforge.net LLC

http://www.microforge.net

[Raymond Basque]

Re: F# programming language

Still wrong. F# would be Gb :)

[clintonG]

Re: F# programming language

This [1] is even more embarassing.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee. com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP http://wikimapia.org/#y=43038073&x=-...8&z=17&l=0&m=h

[1] http://www.rubyclr.com/



"Lucian Wischik" <lu.nn@wischik. comwrote in message
news:i3mbm2d12e d14puejm7janrjv 8s1l1jsc6@4ax.c om...

Jon Harrop <jon@ffconsulta ncy.comwrote:

>>I'm keen to see what Windows developers think of this language as we're
>>considering using it to develop commercial applications on the Windows
>>platform.

>
I wrote a recent project in F#: 6,000 lines of code.
But the users required a C# version so I had to rewrite: 30,000 lines
of code to do exactly the same thing.
>
--
Lucian

[Jon Harrop]

Re: F# programming language

James Crosswell wrote:

Indeed, one of the main benefits of XAML is that it separates the code
from the interface (so the coders can work on logic while designers work
on interfaces)... Such separation has existing for web based apps, in
one form or another, for years - so the biggest benefits of XAML are
probably for Windows apps.

I'm no expert on this stuff but, from my point of view, if you're trying to
create a technology that makes GUI design easy enough for non-coders then
you need a GUI, not another ASCII language. That's why I don't understand
what hole XAML is supposed to fill.

For one thing, it seems to be a bad programming language (from a language
design point of view), e.g. insufficient static checking. Even in the
14-line demo the author makes a mistake and can't see what is wrong.
Contrast that with Intellisense in a variety of languages...

I've just found another XAML demo here:

http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=116327

so I'll watch that and see what they're up to.

--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
Objective CAML for Scientists

http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists