What has managed code achieved?

[John]

Hi

What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not talking
of theory but in reality.

Thanks

Regards

[Mr. Arnold]

Re: What has managed code achieved?


"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
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Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
talking of theory but in reality.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLI_Languages

<http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/paytonbyrd/day-1-introduction-to-managed-code-and-the-net-infrastructure-6588>

[kimiraikkonen]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

On Oct 20, 3:06 am, "John" <i...@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e:

Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not talking
of theory but in reality.
>
Thanks
>
Regards

Check these out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_code

http://www.datadirect.com/developer/net/dot-net-managed-code/managed-code-advantage/index.ssp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET

As your managed code runs under supervision of CLR, it's well-
maintained for .NET framework and the concepts what .NET includes such
as performance, compatibilty and security.

HTH,

Onur Güzel

[Scott M.]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

If you think about VB 6.0, which was not managed, developers had to write
lots of extra code that didn't necessarially have anything to do with the
programming problem. Developers had to write extra code to ensure memory
was managed correctly (set x = Nothing) and if they didn't, the program
would develop memory leaks. Developers also had to write addional code to
handle certain security and performance issues as well.

In the managed environment of the .NET CLR, much of this work is
automatically managed by the CLR through its code access security, garbage
collection, & MSIL.

The real, tangible advantages are that less code is written and that the
resulting programs are more robust and cross-language compatible.

-Scott

"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
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Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
talking of theory but in reality.
>
Thanks
>
Regards
>
>

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

John,

What do you think?

Cor

"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
talking of theory but in reality.
>
Thanks
>
Regards
>
>

[Juan T. Llibre]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

re:
!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?

Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll hell".

There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and cross-language integration.

Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional security checks are required.

Other performance advantages are available through the use of the Just-In-Time compiler,
with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the avoidance of buffer overruns.




Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
=============== =============== ========
"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not talking of theory but in reality.
>
Thanks
>
Regards
>
>

[William Vaughn \(MVP\)]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

But have we traded one kind of DLL hell for another? How many versions of
the Framework are loaded on your system? How is COM-based DLL management any
different than GAC-cached modules that can be replaced without retesting the
consumer applications? Since we now must wait while the code is compiled
before it can be executed, the performance argument might not hold water for
some applications. Notice how long it takes to launch the Report Manager...
I expect that managed code has managed to disenfranchise a lot of perfectly
good COM developers...

--
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ______________
William R. Vaughn
President and Founder Beta V Corporation
Author, Mentor, Dad, Grandpa
Microsoft MVP
(425) 556-9205 (Pacific time)
Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition)
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ __



"Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@ nowhere.comwrot e in message
news:OJP$fstMJH A.5692@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

re:
!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>
Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll
hell".
>
There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and
cross-language integration.
>
Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional security
checks are required.
>
Other performance advantages are available through the use of the
Just-In-Time compiler,
with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the
avoidance of buffer overruns.
>
>
>
>
Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
=============== =============== ========
"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

>Hi
>>
>What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
>talking of theory but in reality.
>>
>Thanks
>>
>Regards
>>
>>

>
>

[Gregory A. Beamer \(Cowboy\) - MVP]

Re: What has managed code achieved?


"Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@ nowhere.comwrot e in message
news:OJP$fstMJH A.5692@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

re:
!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>
Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll
hell".

I think this depends on whether or not your regard the problems with the GAC
as another type of DLL hell,as it sounds like both I and Bill do. ;-)

For most, however, this is a definite advantage, as most do not use the GAC
much and those who do know how to version (maybe?).

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog

http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer#

or just read it:

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*************** *************** **************
| Think outside the box! |
*************** *************** **************

[Gregory A. Beamer \(Cowboy\) - MVP]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

Less Blue Screens by junior developers. ;-)

Realistically, from my COM days, the biggest real world advantage is not
having to register everything and the pain associated with registering
development builds to properly test.

Of course, if you use MTS, you had the option of dropping the running
process and droppping a new COM DLL over the old DLL. But this was thinking
WAY outside the box. You also ended up having to add the weight of MTS to
your app. Not too bad with web apps, which already had most of the weight.
Not as exciting for other apps.

With .NET, however, you can do this without a kludge. So that is a real
world advantage.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog

http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer#

or just read it:

http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer

*************** *************** **************
| Think outside the box! |
*************** *************** **************
"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

Hi
>
What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
talking of theory but in reality.
>
Thanks
>
Regards
>
>

[Ben Voigt [C++ MVP]]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

Juan T. Llibre wrote:

re:
!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>
Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of
"dll hell".

Replaces it with assembly-hell, and since most assemblies still end in .dll
....

>
There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and
cross-language integration.

Ok.

>
Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional
security checks are required.

That's "enabling partial trust scenarios", not improving performance.
Native performance is still better.

>
Other performance advantages are available through the use of the
Just-In-Time compiler,

Like? Sure, the JIT *could* use information about the hardware environment,
such as cache size or availability of extended instruction sets. But that's
more theory than reality.

with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the
avoidance of buffer overruns.

JIT doesn't avoid buffer overruns, bounds checking does. And precompilation
does a lot better job of reasoning about bounds checks at compile time and
optimizing them away than the JIT.

Almost all runtime performance gains from .NET are the fact that memory
allocation from a stack is a LOT cheaper than from a heap. In most cases
that actually pays for all the inefficiencies of .NET so managed code comes
out even with native on average, on many apps managed is a little faster,
for some native is a lot faster.

>
>
>
>
Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
=============== =============== ========
"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

>Hi
>>
>What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
>talking of theory but in reality. Thanks
>>
>Regards

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

William,

You awake me.

I agree with you that it is strange that we load all kind of Net framework,
or better Microsoft does that on our computers.

As we are not using Net 1.x then the latest version should in fact be
enough.

Cor


"William Vaughn (MVP)" <billva@NoSpamB etav.comwrote in message
news:5ADAAC52-4FA0-4FD0-B7E0-84803F35FF58@mi crosoft.com...

But have we traded one kind of DLL hell for another? How many versions of
the Framework are loaded on your system? How is COM-based DLL management
any different than GAC-cached modules that can be replaced without
retesting the consumer applications? Since we now must wait while the code
is compiled before it can be executed, the performance argument might not
hold water for some applications. Notice how long it takes to launch the
Report Manager... I expect that managed code has managed to disenfranchise
a lot of perfectly good COM developers...
>
--
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ______________
William R. Vaughn
President and Founder Beta V Corporation
Author, Mentor, Dad, Grandpa
Microsoft MVP
(425) 556-9205 (Pacific time)
Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition)
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ __
>
>
>
"Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@ nowhere.comwrot e in message
news:OJP$fstMJH A.5692@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

>re:
>!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>>
>Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll
>hell".
>>
>There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and
>cross-language integration.
>>
>Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
>Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional security
>checks are required.
>>
>Other performance advantages are available through the use of the
>Just-In-Time compiler,
>with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the
>avoidance of buffer overruns.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>============== =============== =========
>"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
>news:%23A%23By ekMJHA.3496@TK2 MSFTNGP04.phx.g bl...

>>Hi
>>>
>>What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
>>talking of theory but in reality.
>>>
>>Thanks
>>>
>>Regards
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

[Juan T. Llibre]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

re:
!But have we traded one kind of DLL hell for another?

Not exactly.

Did you ever develop in Classic ASP ? "Dll Hell" was quite evident there.

1. Different dll versions *prevented* your application from running in IIS.
2. Updating a dll meant manually stopping IIS, and all applications, so a single app could be updated

re:
!How many versions of the Framework are loaded on your system?

That's irrelevant.
The fact that several versions of the .Net Framework can coexist hardly qualifies as "dll hell".




Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
=============== =============== ========
"William Vaughn (MVP)" <billva@NoSpamB etav.comwrote in message
news:5ADAAC52-4FA0-4FD0-B7E0-84803F35FF58@mi crosoft.com...

But have we traded one kind of DLL hell for another? How many versions of the Framework are loaded on your system? How
is COM-based DLL management any different than GAC-cached modules that can be replaced without retesting the consumer
applications? Since we now must wait while the code is compiled before it can be executed, the performance argument
might not hold water for some applications. Notice how long it takes to launch the Report Manager... I expect that
managed code has managed to disenfranchise a lot of perfectly good COM developers...
>
--
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ______________
William R. Vaughn
President and Founder Beta V Corporation
Author, Mentor, Dad, Grandpa
Microsoft MVP
(425) 556-9205 (Pacific time)
Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition)
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ __
>
>
>
"Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@ nowhere.comwrot e in message news:OJP$fstMJH A.5692@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

>re:
>!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>>
>Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll hell".
>>
>There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and cross-language integration.
>>
>Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
>Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional security checks are required.
>>
>Other performance advantages are available through the use of the Just-In-Time compiler,
>with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the avoidance of buffer overruns.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>============== =============== =========
>"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message news:%23A%23Bye kMJHA.3496@TK2M SFTNGP04.phx.gb l...

>>Hi
>>>
>>What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not talking of theory but in reality.
>>>
>>Thanks
>>>
>>Regards
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

[Tom Shelton]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

On 2008-10-21, Scott M. <s-mar@nospam.nosp amwrote:

You're making my point Cor.
>
In VB 6, if you didn't explicitly destroy your object references, you not
only wasted memory, but also potentially tie up external resources. So, to
solve those two problems the developer HAD to dereference objects.
>
Ben's last message seems to indicate that we should still do this in .NET
for optimal object collection. I was correcting him, as doing what he
suggests can actually delay object de-referencing.
>
In .NET, as you know, as long as you are disposing of your objects, which is
built in using Using, you are all set.
>
The point being that in .NET, the developer doesn't write memory management
code, as was required in VB 6, and that is one advantage of working in a
managed environment.
>
-Scott
>

Scott - most of the time explicit managment of references was not necessary in
VB6 either. About the only time that setting an object reference to nothing
amounted to anything is if the object was a class or module level value -
which is about the same as VB.NET. In VB6 local variables were automatically
claimed when the method exited - well, assuming there wasn't a bug in the
underlying COM objects implementation :)

--
Tom Shelton

[William Vaughn \(MVP\)]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

Yes, but this attitude is myopic. In a client system in a business you might
be able to restrict the application configuration and remove unnecessary
Framework installations but as I understand it, some versions of the
Framework depend on earlier versions. In addition, in a typical system I
expect that even the OS draws on more than one version of the Framework for
its own utilities as do the utilities and applications that are supplied by
the hardware vendor. I expect that we're stuck with any number of
Frameworks for the next decade.

As to memory, I think it's arrogant to assume that memory is cheap so it's
ok to just load up the system and take all you need for as long as you like.
This is what kills system are applications that consume every byte of memory
in sight forcing other applications to be swapped out. Consider that 32-bit
systems (Vista or XP) can only use 3.5GB of RAM. Take away the OS footprint,
a couple .NET Frameworks and the memory consumed by the ancillary utilities
like Anti-Virus, Anti-spyware, Anti-spam, SQL Server Express instances,
Adobe, Office and other "helper" DLLs and you don't have much memory left to
load up that set of pictures, documents and "real" applications. Consider
that most (by far) of the systems out there are owned and run by consumers
or offices that permit their employees to treat their systems as their
own--thus they get loaded up with a lot of memory-hungry applications and
wallpapers. I see this attitude toward memory (and disk space) like the US's
approach to cheap oil. We built an entire infrastructure around it with no
eye to the future when oil is $150/barrel.

No, IMHO developers still need to be cognizant about how much memory they're
consuming and holding. Given that the .NET Framework GC only runs when the
system is memory stressed only exacerbates the problem.

--
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ______________
William R. Vaughn
President and Founder Beta V Corporation
Author, Mentor, Dad, Grandpa
Microsoft MVP
(425) 556-9205 (Pacific time)
Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition)
_______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ __



"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstname @planet.nlwrote in message
news:O5IKezyMJH A.4724@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...

William,
>
You awake me.
>
I agree with you that it is strange that we load all kind of Net
framework, or better Microsoft does that on our computers.
>
As we are not using Net 1.x then the latest version should in fact be
enough.
>
Cor
>
>
"William Vaughn (MVP)" <billva@NoSpamB etav.comwrote in message
news:5ADAAC52-4FA0-4FD0-B7E0-84803F35FF58@mi crosoft.com...

>But have we traded one kind of DLL hell for another? How many versions of
>the Framework are loaded on your system? How is COM-based DLL management
>any different than GAC-cached modules that can be replaced without
>retesting the consumer applications? Since we now must wait while the
>code is compiled before it can be executed, the performance argument
>might not hold water for some applications. Notice how long it takes to
>launch the Report Manager... I expect that managed code has managed to
>disenfranchi se a lot of perfectly good COM developers...
>>
>--
>______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________
>William R. Vaughn
>President and Founder Beta V Corporation
>Author, Mentor, Dad, Grandpa
>Microsoft MVP
>(425) 556-9205 (Pacific time)
>Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition)
>______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ ___
>>
>>
>>
>"Juan T. Llibre" <nomailreplies@ nowhere.comwrot e in message
>news:OJP$fstMJ HA.5692@TK2MSFT NGP04.phx.gbl.. .

>>re:
>>!What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code?
>>>
>>Imho, the greatest achievement for managed code is: it gets rid of "dll
>>hell".
>>>
>>There's also automatic memory management, platform-neutrality, and
>>cross-language integration.
>>>
>>Performance benefits are gained from executing all code in the CLR.
>>Calling unmanaged code decreases performance because additional security
>>checks are required.
>>>
>>Other performance advantages are available through the use of the
>>Just-In-Time compiler,
>>with gains in built-in security by using code access security and the
>>avoidance of buffer overruns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
>>asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
>>foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
>>============= =============== ==========
>>"John" <info@nospam.in fovis.co.ukwrot e in message
>>news:%23A%23B yekMJHA.3496@TK 2MSFTNGP04.phx. gbl...
>>>Hi
>>>>
>>>What are the advantages actually achieved of managed code? I am not
>>>talking of theory but in reality.
>>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>>
>>>Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>

[Scott M.]

Re: What has managed code achieved?

Scott - most of the time explicit managment of references was not

necessary in
VB6 either. About the only time that setting an object reference to
nothing
amounted to anything is if the object was a class or module level value -
which is about the same as VB.NET. In VB6 local variables were
automatically
claimed when the method exited - well, assuming there wasn't a bug in the
underlying COM objects implementation :)
>
--
Tom Shelton

I don't know how you can make that statement when different VB 6
applications had object references scoped differently. I could just as
easily say that most applications did have module scoped object variables.
In those situations, you (the developer) were required to manage the
object's lifetime and by association, any external resources used by that
object.

In .NET, using Using, the developer need not do anything.

This is one aspect of what working with managed code buys us.

-Scott