ASP vs ASP.NET

[Aaron [SQL Server MVP]]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

> Coding time is only part of the time. What about design time[color=blue]
> and, especially, maintenance time? Which environment would you
> prefer then?[/color]

ASP still. This is subjective. You're never going to convince me that
ASP.Net is "better" using some kind of textbook definition, because none
exists. For every point you make that ASP.Net is better at this or that, I
can counter-point in favor of ASP.
[color=blue]
> I accept your point but the use of client-side code within
> ASP.NET is more limited and nearly always avoidable or
> replaceable by server-side code.[/color]

No it's not! There are all kinds of client-side postback features etc. that
REQUIRE client-side code. The only advantage in ASP.Net is that the work is
done for you, but it's not a landslide benefit (you still have to deal with
browser incompatibiliti es).
[color=blue]
> Why did you remove news:microsoft. public.dotnet.f ramework.aspnet
> from the headers when you replied to my post?[/color]

Because I don't want this to turn into a "my dad can beat up your dad",
bullshit religious war between the two communities. They're separate for a
reason!

--

http://www.aspfaq.com/

(Reverse address to reply.)

[Jeff Cochran]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:10:49 -0400, "Aaron [SQL Server MVP]"
<ten.xoc@dnartr eb.noraa> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> ASP.NET is often C# and sometimes VBScript.[/color]
>
>VB.Net, not VBScript...[/color]

Damned fingers! Type faster than my brain... :)

Jeff

(Which isn't too hard anyway.)

[shalafi]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

client side code is no more limited than asp from my experience.

Main reason i'm learning to like asp.net better than asp is because n-tier
is much easier to implement. In the past (vs6 and earlier) you had to write
your middle tier on vb which has no usefull OOP ability, or vc++ which was a
ton of coding overhead due to microsoft's freaky way of doing things. So
most my apps were j++ with javareg for middle tier, which is unsupported
now. Java at the time was much much easier to write and read, with all the
benifits of OOP.

Now with .NET/CLR what you have is a supported and much much more integrated
version of java (essentially). If microsoft would support and push the
expansion of .NET archetecture to linux, sun, mac which is perfectly
reasonable... .NET would definatley overshadow Java for the industry
standard.

Was i happy with the ASP/Java approach? yup. But there is nothing i could
do there that i cant do here. Aside from that i'm liking c# a bit better
than java, not by a mile but by a few feet.

[color=blue]
> I accept your point but the use of client-side code within
> ASP.NET is more limited and nearly always avoidable or
> replaceable by server-side code. Much more so than ASP.[/color]

[Jeff Cochran]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

>>Why use ASP instead of ASP.NET?[color=blue]
>
>There is no good reason to use ASP rather than ASP.NET[/color]

I know VBScript. I don't know C# or VB.NET. I need my code finished
by 8:00 am tomorrow.

I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.

I have an extensive application using SQL Server as a backend and
fronted entirely with ASP, linked to my Exchange Server. I have to
change one page in it so it will now display the calling page.

Any more reasons that aren't good...?

Jeff

[Aaron [SQL Server MVP]]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

> I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the[color=blue]
> contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.[/color]

Or, similar, my QA department takes three months to approve such software
changes, and the deadline for the current project is in two weeks.

Or, the company is not willing to outfit the entire development team with a
new version of Visual Studio.NET.

--

http://www.aspfaq.com/

(Reverse address to reply.)

[James Baker]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

Learn C#, get a new hosting company and upgrade your site. Might require a
slight extension to your deadline, but that's the approach I would take =).


"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zi na.com> wrote in message
news:40e6c4b2.1 185119171@msnew s.microsoft.com ...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>Why use ASP instead of ASP.NET?[/color]
> >
> >There is no good reason to use ASP rather than ASP.NET[/color]
>
> I know VBScript. I don't know C# or VB.NET. I need my code finished
> by 8:00 am tomorrow.
>
> I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
> contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.
>
> I have an extensive application using SQL Server as a backend and
> fronted entirely with ASP, linked to my Exchange Server. I have to
> change one page in it so it will now display the calling page.
>
> Any more reasons that aren't good...?
>
> Jeff[/color]

[James Baker]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

While I see your point, these are all incidental. Relative to the larger
argument of "which is better?" they don't really hold any weight, because
the situation could easily be reversed and holds no criticisms of either
platform.

Long story short, read up on the options and choose the platform based on
your needs ;-).


"Aaron [SQL Server MVP]" <ten.xoc@dnartr eb.noraa> wrote in message
news:%23Q0e7wUW EHA.2544@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..[color=blue][color=green]
> > I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
> > contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.[/color]
>
> Or, similar, my QA department takes three months to approve such software
> changes, and the deadline for the current project is in two weeks.
>
> Or, the company is not willing to outfit the entire development team with[/color]
a[color=blue]
> new version of Visual Studio.NET.
>
> --
> http://www.aspfaq.com/
> (Reverse address to reply.)
>
>[/color]

[Aaron [SQL Server MVP]]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

> Or, the company is not willing to outfit the entire development team with
a[color=blue]
> new version of Visual Studio.NET.[/color]

Yes, you can code C# in notepad, but I don't think you'd want to. And
admittedly you could use that web matrix tool, but often that is
"unsupporte d 3rd party software," depending on the gestapo-ness of your IT
department.

[Aaron [SQL Server MVP]]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

> While I see your point, these are all incidental. Relative to the larger[color=blue]
> argument of "which is better?" they don't really hold any weight, because
> the situation could easily be reversed and holds no criticisms of either
> platform.[/color]

Once again, I am in no way stating that any of these points means that ASP
is better or ASP.Net is better. As I have stated previously, this is a
subjective call, just like which car I should buy is different than which
car you should buy.

My points were in response to the statement, "There is no good reason to use
ASP rather than ASP.NET", nothing about which is better, just about
individual benefits of one over the other, and that there are scenarios
where some of these points ARE more important than the whole "which is
better" religious argument.

A

[Jeff Cochran]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:03:47 -0400, "James Baker"
<cppjames@hotma il.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Learn C#, get a new hosting company and upgrade your site. Might require a
>slight extension to your deadline, but that's the approach I would take =).[/color]

Which may be possible and work for you. It may not for others.

The original question was "Why use one over the other?" The answer is
always (or *should* always be) "Because that particular technology
fits the needs of the organization best."

Jeff

[color=blue]
>"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zi na.com> wrote in message
>news:40e6c4b2. 1185119171@msne ws.microsoft.co m...[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >>Why use ASP instead of ASP.NET?
>> >
>> >There is no good reason to use ASP rather than ASP.NET[/color]
>>
>> I know VBScript. I don't know C# or VB.NET. I need my code finished
>> by 8:00 am tomorrow.
>>
>> I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
>> contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.
>>
>> I have an extensive application using SQL Server as a backend and
>> fronted entirely with ASP, linked to my Exchange Server. I have to
>> change one page in it so it will now display the calling page.
>>
>> Any more reasons that aren't good...?
>>
>> Jeff[/color]
>[/color]

[Zenobia]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:03:47 -0400, "James Baker"
<cppjames@hotma il.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Learn C#, get a new hosting company and upgrade your site. Might require a
>slight extension to your deadline, but that's the approach I would take =).
>
>
>"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zi na.com> wrote in message
>news:40e6c4b2. 1185119171@msne ws.microsoft.co m...[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >>Why use ASP instead of ASP.NET?
>> >
>> >There is no good reason to use ASP rather than ASP.NET[/color]
>>
>> I know VBScript. I don't know C# or VB.NET. I need my code finished
>> by 8:00 am tomorrow.
>>
>> I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
>> contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.
>>
>> I have an extensive application using SQL Server as a backend and
>> fronted entirely with ASP, linked to my Exchange Server. I have to
>> change one page in it so it will now display the calling page.
>>
>> Any more reasons that aren't good...?
>>
>> Jeff[/color][/color]

I agree with you. If the app is already written in ASP or only
small or simple then use ASP. But if you refer to the root of
this thread; message-ID: <cb9ia0$53e$1@h ercules.btinter net.com>,
I don't, necessarily think you'll find that's the case. I would
write a new, large or complex site in ASP.NET, even if I had to
learn it from scratch to do so. The guy who has to maintain it
may not thank me but so long as he doesn't curse having to
maintain more ASP that will be thanks enough; and that guy may
very well be the author.

[mikael]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET


I'd stick with asp for a while, but that's mostly becasue the company
that I work for made it a helluva lot more useful for me recently.
(http://www.naltabyte.com)
I need javascript for the clientside of things to make it
browser-independent, and I prefer to work with the same language on the
server (JScript), and if possible also the same logic, using the DOM.
- Using the same frame of mind all around suits me better.
Events, using ID's to find page-elements, etc, basic dhtml-concepts, are
all available more easily in asp.
Not in itself, but with some real minor tweaking, and this is what the
above mentioned company does, and it's so easy to do that I need to ask
myself why I should move to asp.Net, which is harder to redefine to suit
my individual needs, regardless any tweakings of any sort.


Live long and prosper(^-^)y

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[shalafi]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

Dont think anyone would argue with that.

But given the original question and that it was posted in the aspnet
newsgroup i wouldnt go out and beat someone up for assuming it does fit the
business need. I currently work on asp.net on my personal time, at work i
support webclasses because "that fits their needs". As a matter of fact
cobol and fortran would fit their needs if i get it to spit out what they
are after. Doesnt mean it's a good way of doing things.

Do what fits the company needs, but if your in a position like me where all
those above you have never seen the technical side of things it's kind of a
responsibility to try and drive change. Webclasses work now, in 2008
support for VB ends, and the overhead of dealing with the app as it is
designed (not totally due to webclasses themselves) is very costly on my
time and their budget. Without my attempt to drive change, they will never
know this nor know alternatives and the cost/benifit with them.

"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zi na.com> wrote in message
news:40dadd99.1 191494438@msnew s.microsoft.com ...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:03:47 -0400, "James Baker"
> <cppjames@hotma il.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >Learn C#, get a new hosting company and upgrade your site. Might require[/color][/color]
a[color=blue][color=green]
> >slight extension to your deadline, but that's the approach I would take[/color][/color]
=).[color=blue]
>
> Which may be possible and work for you. It may not for others.
>
> The original question was "Why use one over the other?" The answer is
> always (or *should* always be) "Because that particular technology
> fits the needs of the organization best."
>
> Jeff
>
>[color=green]
> >"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zi na.com> wrote in message
> >news:40e6c4b2. 1185119171@msne ws.microsoft.co m...[color=darkred]
> >> >>Why use ASP instead of ASP.NET?
> >> >
> >> >There is no good reason to use ASP rather than ASP.NET
> >>
> >> I know VBScript. I don't know C# or VB.NET. I need my code finished
> >> by 8:00 am tomorrow.
> >>
> >> I use a managed server that's under a three-year contract and the
> >> contract doesn't allow the .NET Framework to be installed.
> >>
> >> I have an extensive application using SQL Server as a backend and
> >> fronted entirely with ASP, linked to my Exchange Server. I have to
> >> change one page in it so it will now display the calling page.
> >>
> >> Any more reasons that aren't good...?
> >>
> >> Jeff[/color]
> >[/color]
>[/color]

[Jeff Cochran]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:17:21 -0400, "shalafi" <jack@bone.co m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Dont think anyone would argue with that.
>
>But given the original question and that it was posted in the aspnet
>newsgroup i wouldnt go out and beat someone up for assuming it does fit the
>business need.[/color]

Except it was posted in *both* groups... :)

Jeff

[Zenobia]

Re: ASP vs ASP.NET

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:24:45 GMT, jeff.nospam@zin a.com (Jeff
Cochran) wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:17:21 -0400, "shalafi" <jack@bone.co m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Dont think anyone would argue with that.
>>
>>But given the original question and that it was posted in the aspnet
>>newsgroup i wouldnt go out and beat someone up for assuming it does fit the
>>business need.[/color]
>
>Except it was posted in *both* groups... :)
>
>Jeff[/color]

The thread started in the ASP group only. I cross-posted my
reply to the root post in the ASP.NET group.