what should a novice learn first

[molly00mayhem]

hi neopa

i sure will. lets see thats number 6.02 X 10^23 on my list of things to do which oddly enough i keep in a table called tbl_ListOfThing sToDo!

cheers!

[molly00mayhem]

hi philofwalton

wow this is so neat! no more opening every closet door and rummaging for hours trying to find a left sock. can i download it too? way over my head right now but something i would definitely like to grow into :)

cheers!

[molly00mayhem]

hi twinnyfo

well here i am right back where i started from haha. didnt know exactly where to post this, but this is where it all began so i figured id post this here since it seems relevant to the comments and everyones been so <amazingly> helpful and i know they would see it here.

well, giambertos planning a poker party for fri nite and i said oh goody hunting around for my marked deck and he said no its just for the boys and i said oh non goody. i am however permitted to remain if i put on an apron and cap and make and serve munchies and refreshments to that motley crue. down home that might go over, but were in the big city. whatever happened to womens lib?

anyway, i continue on my journey through the stuff you guys sent and decided id concentrate first on table design as recommended and that takes me into normalization which ive really given a good going over. when i look at the tables ive been using i now see nonatomic values, duplicated rows, lots of null values, transitive dependencies, insertion and deletion anomalies and everything else you can think of up the ying yang.

so, i took one big one apart trying to get it into 3NF and now i have a gazillion little tables squeaking all over the place. do developers really do this? am i on the right track here or just overreacting?

oops theres another little squeaker hidden under my mouse :)


cheers!

[twinnyfo]

Molly,

Yes! Good normalization always results in many tables, and many of them will be small (few fields, but could have many records).

It can get complicated, but it really is the best way to go about things.

I also have a lot of queries. If I have specific uses for data that I often repeat, I make a query that I can just run anytime I want. At other times I take that query and use Form/Report Filters (or just use the table). Over time, you will learn the best methodsd that will work for your particular situations. However, it is moreimportant that you understand multiple ways to do things, sometimes, as one way may allow more flexibility than another.

Best of luck serving tea and crumpets!

[NeoPa]

Molly:
i sure will. lets see thats number 6.02 X 10^23 on my list of things to do which oddly enough i keep in a table called tbl_ListOfThing sToDo!

Chop chop. I assume that's done then.

Tea and crumpets?
I suspect that may not be quite the refreshments they're after ;-)

What could be more fun than digging through databases and normalisation while they're doing all that boring poker nonsense? Or not.

Blokes eh? Who'd 'ave 'em?

[molly00mayhem]

hi twinnyfo

crumpets!? dont give those clowns any fancy ideas heehee. gotta go shopping for tomorrow nite. later

hab a good 'un!

[molly00mayhem]

hi neopa

yeah <lol> ill probably find one of them under my rose bush the morning after. my secret plan is to put on my sleaziest dress, load up with a ton of makeup and make weird faces when i peek at their cards. blokes yeah, blimey blokes id call them, definitely not ready for prime time:) later

cheers!

[zmbd]

I'm in for Tea and Crumpets - so wonderful of you to offer, I might be late if travel out of the US is required... passports and all that jazz - :)

As other's have noted, normalization often does result in a lot of tables. One note of caution, sometimes taking a database all of the way down to 3NF, while desirable, is not always practical. Take a basic address book, theoretically, one would need tables for all the states/province, countries, zip-codes, streets, addresses.... adnauseam; however, for things that are static one may not really need to go 3NF when 2NF would suffice - I do have a few databases where I've not completely pulled stuff to 3NF; however, those are very early databases and not my best work.

Anyway, a very simple explanation and example to add to your quest on normalization - IMHO next to SQL it's the most important concept to really get a good understanding - and one of the most difficult, sort of like Chess, easy to learn, hard to master, and once you get the general idea will become alomost second nature (did I just contradict myself :) ): https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ization-basics

[PhilOfWalton]

Further to zmbd's remarks about addresses, as a guideline, if a piece of information (say an address line) occurs only a few times in a table (remember what size the table may grow to) that is perfectly OK as far as I am concerned.

However something like States and probably towns/cities are likely to appear many times, so I use separate tables.

Phil

[NeoPa]

Hi Molly.

You realise I was just talking about booze yeah?

[molly00mayhem]

hi zmbd

be careful, first bite and youd never know if i baked em that day or 6 mos ago!

im glad you said that about the addresses. im a detail person and i can get carried away. so a little perspective here would do me good. its fun though, sneaking around my db, coming up behind a transitive dependency and catching it in the act :)

thanx for the url

cheers!

[molly00mayhem]

hi neopa

huh? oh, hahahah yeah, what else!?

cheers!

[molly00mayhem]

hi philofwalton

agreed. ill whittle most of them down to 3nf for the practice and because i like doing things right and because ive invested so much time learning this stuff i might as well use it, but practically some can stay in 2nf if necessary i can always come back at some later date and whittle off a little more.

cheers!

[molly00mayhem]

hi neopa

well the poker party went great. my girlfriend and i whipped up some homemade pizzas in my iron skillets, filled a cooler and fed and watered the hounds til they could live on their own :) thats the only refreshments they got too! heehee then izzie (not her real name) and i settled down to catch up. i think i have found a project to put my new finding db skills to work. shes been running her churchs outreach program for low income individuals and would like a way to keep track of resources besides word docs and spreadsheets which she knows less about than i do which is essentially nothing.

i convinced her that an msaccess db was the way to go and now were all excited. wondering if it would be ok to keep picking up some advice from you guys along the way. just dont want to impose or detract from any primary mission tho. were going down to check out her place right now, so later.

btw, saw/heard your videos. i like i like. must be nice to have your own show!

cheers!

[NeoPa]

Hi again Molly.

We are good with as many questions as you can throw at us. The only restriction we place on that is that they are considered and properly presented (single) questions. If a question is too broad to deal with then just break it down into smaller parts and ask them one at a time. Questions are grist to our mill.

You have a boyfriend AND a girlfriend? Wow. That doesn't sound like middle America to me (rofl). I'm kidding of course. I do really understand that people nowadays refer to g/fs without any romantic association. It's just how the language has evolved. BTW That all sounds fun.

Thanks for the comments on the videos. I don't have a show. I just knock up a video every now and again. The Channel9 one was just being invited by Microsoft to sit down with Crystal and record a quick session chatting about some tools we'd developed. You can probably tell by the fact it was so clearly unrehearsed. We muddled through though - hopefully with not too bad a result. I'm quite pleased with it myself.

We also have a number of members who post about stuff they're doing or have done for their local church. A couple were even MVPs (I won't mention any names as I can't be sure who wishes to share what but I suspect they're all happy to be known as such). So, get 'er done!

All the best -Ade.