Future of access?

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  • John

    Future of access?

    Hi

    What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
    doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
    hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.

    Any comments?

    Thanks

    Regards



  • Tom van Stiphout

    #2
    Re: Future of access?

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 19:18:20 +0100, "John" <John@nospam.in fovis.co.uk>
    wrote:

    Review this; then let's talk again.


    -Tom.


    [color=blue]
    >Hi
    >
    >What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
    >doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
    >hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.
    >
    >Any comments?
    >
    >Thanks
    >
    >Regards
    >
    >[/color]

    Comment

    • Ken Snell [MVP]

      #3
      Re: Future of access?

      See these links to provide some info:

      [quote from Access Advisor] Microsoft Access lead program manager Clint
      Covington says, "You'll find a strategic commitment to radically upgrade the
      quality of Access applications by improving the core forms and reports
      experience, using Jet as the query processor." [/quote]








      --

      Ken Snell
      <MS ACCESS MVP>

      "John" <John@nospam.in fovis.co.uk> wrote in message
      news:ebrZfG7YFH A.1088@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
      > Hi
      >
      > What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
      > doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
      > hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.
      >
      > Any comments?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Regards
      >
      >
      >[/color]


      Comment

      • Albert D.Kallal

        #4
        Re: Future of access?

        "John" <John@nospam.in fovis.co.uk> wrote in message
        news:ebrZfG7YFH A.1088@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
        >
        > What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
        > doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
        > hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.
        >
        > Any comments?[/color]

        First, ms-access makes a great front end to sql server. So, you kind of have
        to consider ms-access a developers tool like c++, or VB, or vb.net.

        Remember, with sql server, or oracle, you can't create a form, or even a
        user interface. So, if you move to sql server, what will you make the forms
        with?

        ms-access is primarily a developer tool that lets you build a interface. You
        can build this interface, and connect to the JET engine, or connect to sql
        server. Thus, you really can't outgrow ms-access in terms of users. It
        would be wrong to think as ms-access as a database (it is not). Ms-access is
        a tool that lets you build applications, and lets you CONNECT to a database
        engine of your choice. So, if you got a oracle database, ms-access is still
        a great tool to use, and connect to that database.

        As for new features? Well, each version of ms-access tends to bring us along
        for the Microsoft ride for technology. When class objects became all rage in
        programming circles, we got that feature added to access 97.

        You can read about class objects and why you would use them here:


        When Microsoft came out with ADO (active data objects), then for access
        2000, we got ado added to ms-access. When ms-access 2002 came along, XML was
        all the rage, and we got even better support for XML in access 2003. And,
        access 2003 also let you use share point services.

        Further, while you can't write web services in ms-access, you can certainly
        CONSUME web services. The reason why you can do this is that Microsoft
        released the soap add in tool kit for ms-access. So, if you want to use .net
        services via SOAP, or use things like XML...you now can. Hence, you can
        consume .net web services with ms-access. So, from a developers point of
        view, ms-access gets most of the new technologies that Microsoft comes out
        with. They have consistently for the last 10 years added new technologies
        to ms-access that they are using for building software.

        If you look at the above additions to ms-access, you can clearly see that as
        Microsoft comes out with new technologies, they have been adding them to
        ms-access. And, if you think about the above features, MOST are not actual
        database features, but simply additions to what developers would expect with
        a developers tool.

        So, I never really thought of ms-access as a database, and the fact that you
        can (and should) choose the appropriate database engine for your task at
        hand never really changed the fact that you can use ms-access with your
        database of choice.

        If you want to pick oracle as your database, you can. However, you
        can't build a form with a oracle database..and you can with ms-access.

        So, you most certainly
        can use ms-access to build the application, and use oracle as the database
        for this ms-access application. ms-access is thus a tool to 'access' a
        database, but ms-access is not really a database.

        As for other new features in a2003 that I like and use? Well, you can change
        the font size in the sql view (I really like that feature). Another feature
        is ms-access now supports themed controls. This makes your "old" software
        kind of look new. Here is some screen shots of old vs new. (the only thing
        done was turn on themes).



        There is some more screen shots here:



        Another feature is automatic
        error checking for common errors in forms and reports.
        Error checking points out errors, such as two controls
        using the same keyboard shortcut, and the width of a report
        being greater than the page it will be printed on.
        Enabling error checking helps you identify errors and
        correct them.

        The Smart tag help appears in reprot desing also is nice.

        And, when you change a field property in the table design, you can have
        that change prorogate thought out the application (forms and reports will be
        updated to reflect this change).

        There is a bunch of other features I don't care...nor use in a2003. However
        Microsoft continues to work on the next great version, and if the above
        history is any indication of the path of the product, then we will continue
        to see new features..and new that MS comes out with integrated into that
        developers product.


        --
        Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
        Edmonton, Alberta Canada
        pleaseNOOSpamKa llal@msn.com




        Comment

        • David W. Fenton

          #5
          Re: Future of access?

          "John" <John@nospam.in fovis.co.uk> wrote in
          news:ebrZfG7YFH A.1088@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl:
          [color=blue]
          > What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql
          > 2005? MS doesn't seem to have done anything major with access
          > lately and presumably hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.[/color]

          Have you tried checking Google Groups for this newsgroup to see if
          this topic has been discussed before?

          Free clue: massive discussion of the topic within the last month.

          Free hint: you look not very bright when you ask obvious questions
          like this without having checked the archives.

          --
          David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
          dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

          Comment

          • Albert D.Kallal

            #6
            Re: Future of access?

            >..and new that MS comes out with integrated into that
            developers product.

            Should read:

            and that as MS comes out with new things, they are integrated into
            ms-access.


            --
            Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
            Edmonton, Alberta Canada
            pleaseNOOSpamKa llal@msn.com



            Comment

            • Sylvain Lafontaine

              #7
              Re: Future of access?

              The future of Access for whom?

              If you are talking about secretaries and the like, then quite probably the
              next version of Access will be much more better; expecially when it comes to
              its integration with Office and Sharepoint. For exemple, I won't be
              surprised if there are a better way of doing a mail merge between Word and
              Access or to integrate data from Access into a word document. The actual
              interface between Access and Word is very ineffective and there a lot of
              ameliorations to make there.

              Probably that there will be also a lot of other small ameliorations, like
              maybe an easy way of printing multiple reports into a single document, the
              possibility of writing comments inside queries, to add fields not from the
              recordset to a continuous forms and other things like that.

              However, for the developers of enterprise solutions; Access seems now to
              have become a dead-end.

              --
              Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
              MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
              E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF


              "John" <John@nospam.in fovis.co.uk> wrote in message
              news:ebrZfG7YFH A.1088@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
              > Hi
              >
              > What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
              > doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
              > hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.
              >
              > Any comments?
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > Regards
              >
              >
              >[/color]


              Comment

              • Tony Toews

                #8
                Re: Future of access?

                "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
                please)> wrote:
                [color=blue]
                >However, for the developers of enterprise solutions; Access seems now to
                >have become a dead-end.[/color]

                In what sense?

                Tony
                --
                Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
                Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
                read the entire thread of messages.
                Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

                Comment

                • Albert D.Kallal

                  #9
                  Re: Future of access?

                  > However, for the developers of enterprise solutions; Access seems now to[color=blue]
                  > have become a dead-end.[/color]

                  Well, I don't think ms-access every was a enterprise solution anyway.
                  However, do remember that 99% of business in the USA is a small business.
                  So, while you can get all wound up about big business, they don't represent
                  any sizeable factor here. So, while enterprise solutions represents 1% of
                  the business market, ms-access will happily cover the 99% part. Point in
                  fact, this means the enterprise market never was large, and never was part
                  of ms-access anyway.

                  However, for most business, in fact 99% of business out there ms-access is a
                  ideal tool for software development. And, in fact 99% of business will NOT
                  outgrow ms-access. Even if you got 50-75 users, ms-access + sql server is a
                  great solution, and will not even break out in a sweat with such low numbers
                  of users.

                  However, for sure, for the larger enterprise development (that represents 1%
                  of business in the market), those larger business were never using ms-access
                  for enterprise solutions anyway. I don't think those enterprise solution
                  providers should be holding their breath for the next version of ms-access
                  to come out and grab that 1% that ms-access never represented in the first
                  place.

                  --
                  Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
                  Edmonton, Alberta Canada
                  pleaseNOOSpamKa llal@msn.com



                  Comment

                  • Sylvain Lafontaine

                    #10
                    Re: Future of access?

                    Excerpt for the SQL part, the development of fancy stuff in Access are
                    mainly based on three things: VBA, Recordsets and ActiveX (COM/DCOM).

                    Essentially, Microsoft has stopped support for VB6, ASP and DTS; which means
                    that outside of Access and Office, that are no longer any
                    support/development/use for languages closely related to VBA, ie: VB and
                    VBScript. (Of course, I have put apart VB.NET for obvious reasons.)

                    This also means that outside of Access/Office, support, development and use
                    of the Recordsets technology is also practically stopped.

                    Finally, the end of VB6 also means that they is no any longer any way for
                    the easy creation of COM components. Of course, if you don't need them,
                    then this won't bother you; however, for those situations where you don't
                    have the choice - for exemple when you have to interface with an existing
                    library with no available ActiveX components - then you are now stuck to go
                    the C++/ATL way; which is far from being an easy way for a newbie.

                    Seriously, would you suggest to a newcomer, someone who doesn't know VBA,
                    ADO, ATL and the .NET Framework and who doesn't have to support a legacy
                    application, to start learning these things instead of VB.NET, C# and
                    ADO.NET ?

                    It appears that VBA, Recordsets and COM are now on an isolated island and
                    that this island will become more and more isolated in a fast way.

                    --
                    Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
                    MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
                    E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF


                    "Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> wrote in message
                    news:ro6i91pcqs sipv26t4pcnbpmv 88n3897ma@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
                    > "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
                    > please)> wrote:
                    >[color=green]
                    >>However, for the developers of enterprise solutions; Access seems now to
                    >>have become a dead-end.[/color]
                    >
                    > In what sense?
                    >
                    > Tony
                    > --
                    > Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
                    > Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
                    > read the entire thread of messages.
                    > Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
                    > http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm[/color]


                    Comment

                    • Vadim Rapp

                      #11
                      Re: Future of access?

                      SL> Seriously, would you suggest to a newcomer, someone who doesn't know
                      SL> VBA, ADO, ATL and the .NET Framework and who doesn't have to support a
                      SL> legacy application, to start learning these things instead of VB.NET,
                      SL> C# and ADO.NET ?

                      Depends on his purpose. If it is productive creating workhorse applications
                      with great performance, then yes. If being in sync with glossy magazines,
                      plus impressing job interviewers who know things from those magazines, then
                      no.

                      Vadim Rapp

                      Comment

                      • (PeteCresswell)

                        #12
                        Re: Future of access?

                        Per "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please)>:[color=blue]
                        >Seriously, would you suggest to a newcomer, someone who doesn't know VBA,
                        >ADO, ATL and the .NET Framework and who doesn't have to support a legacy
                        >application, to start learning these things instead of VB.NET, C# and
                        >ADO.NET ?[/color]

                        Absolutely not. I don't need or want any more competition in my (to me, at
                        least) lucrative niche of providing low-cost, quickly-delivered solutions for
                        clients who need same. -)

                        VB.NET *really* eats up the manhours.
                        --
                        PeteCresswell

                        Comment

                        • David W. Fenton

                          #13
                          Re: Future of access?

                          "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
                          please)> wrote in news:ef###d$YFH A.3220@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl:
                          [color=blue]
                          > Excerpt for the SQL part, the development of fancy stuff in Access
                          > are mainly based on three things: VBA, Recordsets and ActiveX
                          > (COM/DCOM).[/color]

                          What the *hell* do you mean by "recordsets "? EVERY database
                          application will be operating on recordsets of one form or another.

                          --
                          David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
                          dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

                          Comment

                          • Sylvain Lafontaine

                            #14
                            Re: Future of access?

                            By "recordsets ", I'm referring to the DAO and ADO implementations of
                            recordsets in comparaison with the datasets of the .NET framework. In
                            ADO.NET, the recordsets are so different from their DAO and ADO counterparts
                            that MS has changed their name to Dataset.

                            My statement about "recordsets " may look strange at first but if you take a
                            look at ADO.NET, the answer will become obvious. This is why I didn't give
                            any further explanation in my other post.

                            --
                            Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
                            MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC
                            E-mail: http://cerbermail.com/?QugbLEWINF


                            "David W. Fenton" <dXXXfenton@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote in message
                            news:Xns96658E6 F05670dfentonbw aynetinvali@24. 168.128.74...[color=blue]
                            > "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
                            > please)> wrote in news:ef###d$YFH A.3220@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl:
                            >[color=green]
                            >> Excerpt for the SQL part, the development of fancy stuff in Access
                            >> are mainly based on three things: VBA, Recordsets and ActiveX
                            >> (COM/DCOM).[/color]
                            >
                            > What the *hell* do you mean by "recordsets "? EVERY database
                            > application will be operating on recordsets of one form or another.
                            >
                            > --
                            > David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
                            > dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc[/color]


                            Comment

                            • David W. Fenton

                              #15
                              Re: Future of access?

                              "Sylvain Lafontaine" <sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam
                              please)> wrote in news:uwnbHEIZFH A.3908@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl:
                              [color=blue]
                              > By "recordsets ", I'm referring to the DAO and ADO implementations
                              > of recordsets in comparaison with the datasets of the .NET
                              > framework. In ADO.NET, the recordsets are so different from their
                              > DAO and ADO counterparts that MS has changed their name to
                              > Dataset.
                              >
                              > My statement about "recordsets " may look strange at first but if
                              > you take a look at ADO.NET, the answer will become obvious. This
                              > is why I didn't give any further explanation in my other post.[/color]

                              You sound a lot like a garden-variety moron who selects the most
                              recent Microsoft technology just because Microsoft says it's coming
                              next. Those who did that with ADO after the release of Access 2000
                              got badly burned, so I think it highly unlikely that any experienced
                              Access developer would be anxious to start on whatever Microsoft
                              says is the latest and greatest, and that includes all the .NET
                              lunacy, which really isn't designed for the same problem space in
                              which Access excels.

                              --
                              David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
                              dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

                              Comment

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