Fingerprint identification.

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  • dkintheuk

    #16
    Re: Fingerprint identification.

    Darryl,

    No offense was meant by my first paragraph... it sounded so much better
    in my head than it looked written down. I was implying that we'd been
    quite argumentative up till then but we in fact have a lot we agree on.

    I will say though that you do seem to be against the technology because
    it could be abused rather than supportive of its use even though the
    legal control environment is not YET up to scratch. However, I am
    equally wary about my personal data. I just hadn't put as much thought
    into the reasons why i might be concerned, for that clarity in your
    message i am grateful.

    The photgraphy quote is brilliant by the way, as it does contain that
    magical statement that you alude to "The right of publicity provides
    that an individual has the right to control the commercial use of their
    name, likeness or identity."

    What a simple but effective statement. Plus that point on aggregating
    data is very well understood in the UK where data collectors have to
    cleary define the reason for collection and what their intentions are
    for the data they hold.

    To be honest, I wonder if there is anyone really fighting in a
    coordinated way for the rights of the individual to be GLOBALLY
    protected from information abuse. We have a great twist in the UK with
    the introduction of offshore call-centers that hold our personal data
    in (for instance) India and will then call us up with unsolicited sales
    calls. They can not be controlled as UK companies can as they are
    off-shore even though they may be owned and maintained by UK companies.

    Perhaps other member so fthis forum would be interested in beginning to
    formulate a more complete approach to personal data protection that we
    could use to lobby our governments and councils to be more protective
    with our private and personal data.

    Any other thoughts?

    Rob.

    Comment

    • Tony Toews

      #17
      Re: Fingerprint identification.

      "dkintheuk" <rmcgregor@fire net.uk.com> wrote:
      [color=blue]
      >In the UK we have the Data Protection Act (and I know there is a
      >similar law in the US) that is supposed to protect information.[/color]

      The difference is that USA politicians are for more corrupt than Canadian and I
      suspect UK politicians. USA Congress Critters need, what?, $10M or $20M in
      donations to pay for advertising and such. Canadian politicians can't spend more
      than roughly $100K. The largest donation allowed is either $1K or $5K.
      [color=blue]
      >In fact
      >it is abused by nearly every company I have ever worked with. There is
      >always the post room boy who knows how to get customer details out of
      >the system and pass them to a friend. Indeed, the IRA, to name one
      >group, have used insiders to obtain phone records, car details and
      >similar information to be able to target their enemies.[/color]

      As have the Hells Angels in Canada. However usage of such inquiries is logged. And
      folks who work in motor vehicle registry offices and such have been convicted of
      handing out address of people to the wrong people.
      [color=blue]
      >What is the solution to prevent abuse? There are going to be useful
      >data collection regimes but many none essential ones. Such as your
      >example of the highly personal details to get a discount card for your
      >local grocery store.[/color]

      To me the key is that data inquiry and usage is logged. And you have the right to
      see what data is kept about you and who has looked at it.

      Tony
      --
      Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
      Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
      read the entire thread of messages.
      Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

      Comment

      • Tony Toews

        #18
        Re: Fingerprint identification.

        "Darryl Kerkeslager" <kerkeslager@co mcast.net> wrote:
        [color=blue]
        >My child's softball association now wants my fingerprint to check FBI
        >records to make sure I'm not a sex offender, despite the fact that FBI
        >records are routinely searched by name, race, sex, dob - all information
        >that is routinely public.[/color]

        I would have no problem with an criminal records check by showing ID. However
        fingerprint check I would refuse.
        [color=blue]
        >Nearly every store where I shop now "offers" a discount card if you fill out
        >a form tied to the card, with name, dob, address, etc.[/color]

        Name, address and phone number I will give. DoB not. They have no need for that.
        I frequently will give Jan 1 1970 if they insist.
        [color=blue]
        >And while refusal seems like an easy
        >option, using the card saves me around $15 off a $100 grocery bill.[/color]

        At one particular grocery store I will give out my cousin's wife's parents phone
        number. That's the number my cousin uses so that's fine by me. We're really
        screwing with their computers. All the way from Gerital to diapers. Hehehehe

        Excellent points snipped.

        BTW the usage of SINs up in Canada is much lower than the U.S SSNs. Most, but not
        all, credit card apps have the word optional beside the SIN.

        Tony
        --
        Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
        Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
        read the entire thread of messages.
        Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

        Comment

        • Lyle Fairfield

          #19
          Re: Fingerprint identification.

          Tony Toews wrote:
          [color=blue]
          > However usage of such inquiries is logged. And
          > folks who work in motor vehicle registry offices and such have been convicted of
          > handing out address of people to the wrong people.[/color]

          This year QuickTax has

          "QuickTaxWe b For Tax Year 2004

          Our popular QuickTax program can now be completed on the Internet. Just
          set up an account and begin your return."

          With (in FAQ)

          "Where is my data stored?
          Information you enter into QuickTaxWeb is securely stored on Intuit's
          servers, and will be automatically deleted in December 2006 when the tax
          year 2004 service goes offline. Our data centre operates under strict
          security guidelines to protect your information and comply with CRA
          requirements. Extensive backup systems guard against data loss."

          .....

          Pass

          --
          --
          Lyle
          --

          Comment

          • Darryl Kerkeslager

            #20
            Re: Fingerprint identification.

            "Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> wrote[color=blue]
            > "Darryl Kerkeslager" <kerkeslager@co mcast.net> wrote:
            >[color=green]
            >>My child's softball association now wants my fingerprint to check FBI
            >>records to make sure I'm not a sex offender, despite the fact that FBI
            >>records are routinely searched by name, race, sex, dob - all information
            >>that is routinely public.[/color]
            >
            > I would have no problem with an criminal records check by showing ID.
            > However
            > fingerprint check I would refuse.[/color]

            I have a serious problem with this. It is absolutely wrong ... and yet ...
            I do enjoy coaching her team.

            [color=blue][color=green]
            >>Nearly every store where I shop now "offers" a discount card if you fill
            >>out
            >>a form tied to the card, with name, dob, address, etc.[/color]
            >
            > Name, address and phone number I will give. DoB not. They have no need
            > for that.
            > I frequently will give Jan 1 1970 if they insist.
            >[color=green]
            >>And while refusal seems like an easy
            >>option, using the card saves me around $15 off a $100 grocery bill.[/color]
            >
            > At one particular grocery store I will give out my cousin's wife's parents
            > phone
            > number. That's the number my cousin uses so that's fine by me. We're
            > really
            > screwing with their computers. All the way from Gerital to diapers.
            > Hehehehe[/color]

            I have to admit that my way around it has simply been this: get the
            application and card, use the card, never turn in the application. I've
            used my "anonymous" discount card for quite awhile now with no problems.
            Now if I could just figure out how to get an anonymous Visa card so that I
            can anonymously buy items online.

            [color=blue]
            > BTW the usage of SINs up in Canada is much lower than the U.S SSNs.
            > Most, but not
            > all, credit card apps have the word optional beside the SIN.[/color]

            Well, despite the laws making it okay to use driver's license numbers
            instead of SSNs on driver's licenses, use of SSN continues to be - what's
            that word - 'ubiquitous'.

            Just in the day or so since the last post, I see that Lexis-Nexis admits
            32,000 accounts accessed, and DSW (Discount Shoe Warehouse) had bunches of
            accounts accessed. Having just bought some shoes at DSW, using a debit
            card, I'm watching my bank account closely.

            It has not gone up at all.


            --
            Darryl Kerkeslager

            Power corrupts.
            Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
            Knowledge is power.
            See www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927


            Comment

            • rkc

              #21
              Re: Fingerprint identification.

              Darryl Kerkeslager wrote:
              [color=blue]
              > Now if I could just figure out how to get an anonymous Visa card so that I
              > can anonymously buy items online.[/color]

              Can't you buy pre-paid credit cards in your neck-o-the-woods?
              I use them and just make up all the personal information.
              The most I've had to do is match a bogus address with a
              correct zipcode.

              Comment

              • Darryl Kerkeslager

                #22
                Re: Fingerprint identification.

                "rkc" <rkc@rochester. yabba.dabba.do. rr.bomb> wrote[color=blue]
                > Darryl Kerkeslager wrote:
                >[color=green]
                >> Now if I could just figure out how to get an anonymous Visa card so that
                >> I can anonymously buy items online.[/color]
                >
                > Can't you buy pre-paid credit cards in your neck-o-the-woods?
                > I use them and just make up all the personal information.
                > The most I've had to do is match a bogus address with a
                > correct zipcode.[/color]


                That works? I had no idea.

                --
                Darryl Kerkeslager

                Power corrupts.
                Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
                Knowledge is power.
                See www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927


                Comment

                • Tony Toews

                  #23
                  Re: Fingerprint identification.

                  Lyle Fairfield <lylefair@yahoo .ca> wrote:
                  [color=blue]
                  >"Where is my data stored?
                  >Information you enter into QuickTaxWeb is securely stored on Intuit's
                  >servers, and will be automatically deleted in December 2006 when the tax
                  >year 2004 service goes offline. Our data centre operates under strict
                  >security guidelines to protect your information and comply with CRA
                  >requirements . Extensive backup systems guard against data loss."
                  >
                  >....
                  >
                  >Pass[/color]

                  Agreed. OTOH is your accountant paying enough attention to security in their network
                  in their office?

                  Tony
                  --
                  Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
                  Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
                  read the entire thread of messages.
                  Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

                  Comment

                  • rkc

                    #24
                    Re: Fingerprint identification.

                    Darryl Kerkeslager wrote:[color=blue]
                    > "rkc" <rkc@rochester. yabba.dabba.do. rr.bomb> wrote
                    >[color=green]
                    >>Darryl Kerkeslager wrote:
                    >>
                    >>[color=darkred]
                    >>>Now if I could just figure out how to get an anonymous Visa card so that
                    >>>I can anonymously buy items online.[/color]
                    >>
                    >>Can't you buy pre-paid credit cards in your neck-o-the-woods?
                    >>I use them and just make up all the personal information.
                    >>The most I've had to do is match a bogus address with a
                    >>correct zipcode.[/color]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > That works? I had no idea.[/color]

                    I opened an account on ITunes a few days ago using one.

                    Comment

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