Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

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  • bluedolphin

    Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

    Hello All:

    I have been brought onboard to help on a project that had some
    performance problems last year. I have taken some steps to address
    the issues in question, but a huge question mark remains.

    Last year, all of the tables and reports were stored in Access. The
    database was put online so that end users could access the reports
    online using Snapshot Viewer. The reports were aggregated on the fly,
    and the selection criteria available to the end users was passed as
    text strings to the query/reports as the searchable criteria as
    opposed to an indexed numeric value. (Example: Pass Year_Desc of
    200-2003 as opposed to Year_ID, of 3.)

    Hundreds of users were accessing this system. Fortunately not all at
    the same time, but it must have been enough people since the system
    came down a few times while people were accessing their reports.

    This year, I have preaggregated all reports into a reporting table, so
    that no aggregation is happening on the fly when people are pulling
    their reports. The only work that will be done to pull up the reports
    is to pass the selection criteria to the query that the report is
    based on. ALL TABLES including the aggregated reporting tables have
    been moved to SQL Server. No tables live in Access anymore. The
    selection criteria in the SQL reporting tables all have indexed
    numeric fields that will be used to choose the appropriate recordset.

    I think these items represent a big improvement for this process,
    making us less likely to come down this year. The theory is that,
    Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load on it's
    tables. I focused on the fact that everything was in Access and since
    it is not a shining star for this type of multiple user/heavy load
    scenario, we would be better off in SQL.

    The argument has been put forward, however, that the bottleneck is the
    actual instances of Access Opening and closing in order to put out the
    Snapshot Viewer for each report. It is argued that the move from
    Access to SQL will have little impact, because that was not the
    bottleneck. The bottleneck, it is said, was the number of actual
    instances that Access must "Open" in order for people to view the
    reports.

    Since I have little experience with Snapshots, the argument may in
    fact be valid. I stand by the move to SQL, and I still believe that
    everything living in Access contributed to the poor performance and
    crashes. I cannot speak towards the Access Snapshot piece ansd am
    thus still concerned for the success of this project.

    My concern is that we may still be looking at a crash scenario despite
    the SQL move and preaggregated data. Does anyone out there have
    experience with snapshots and can verify or refute the performance
    issues mentioned above and the approach we are taking?

    Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
    BlueDolphin
  • Tom van Stiphout

    #2
    Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

    On 12 Jul 2004 10:19:36 -0700, bcaponet@jeffco .k12.co.us (bluedolphin)
    wrote:

    Is this your scenario:
    Users access the application via a web browser. A classic ASP
    application takes the requests including report criteria, invokes an
    instance of MsAccess to generate a report and exports it as a snapshot
    file, and makes that snapshot file available to the requestor in the
    form of a hyperlink. User clicks the hyperlink, the snapshot file
    downloads and is viewed in the local viewer (or perhaps in-place in
    the browser window).

    If not, please describe your application architecture. What do you
    mean by the term "online"?

    -Tom.


    [color=blue]
    >Hello All:
    >
    >I have been brought onboard to help on a project that had some
    >performance problems last year. I have taken some steps to address
    >the issues in question, but a huge question mark remains.
    >
    >Last year, all of the tables and reports were stored in Access. The
    >database was put online so that end users could access the reports
    >online using Snapshot Viewer. The reports were aggregated on the fly,
    >and the selection criteria available to the end users was passed as
    >text strings to the query/reports as the searchable criteria as
    >opposed to an indexed numeric value. (Example: Pass Year_Desc of
    >200-2003 as opposed to Year_ID, of 3.)
    >
    >Hundreds of users were accessing this system. Fortunately not all at
    >the same time, but it must have been enough people since the system
    >came down a few times while people were accessing their reports.
    >
    >This year, I have preaggregated all reports into a reporting table, so
    >that no aggregation is happening on the fly when people are pulling
    >their reports. The only work that will be done to pull up the reports
    >is to pass the selection criteria to the query that the report is
    >based on. ALL TABLES including the aggregated reporting tables have
    >been moved to SQL Server. No tables live in Access anymore. The
    >selection criteria in the SQL reporting tables all have indexed
    >numeric fields that will be used to choose the appropriate recordset.
    >
    >I think these items represent a big improvement for this process,
    >making us less likely to come down this year. The theory is that,
    >Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load on it's
    >tables. I focused on the fact that everything was in Access and since
    >it is not a shining star for this type of multiple user/heavy load
    >scenario, we would be better off in SQL.
    >
    >The argument has been put forward, however, that the bottleneck is the
    >actual instances of Access Opening and closing in order to put out the
    >Snapshot Viewer for each report. It is argued that the move from
    >Access to SQL will have little impact, because that was not the
    >bottleneck. The bottleneck, it is said, was the number of actual
    >instances that Access must "Open" in order for people to view the
    >reports.
    >
    >Since I have little experience with Snapshots, the argument may in
    >fact be valid. I stand by the move to SQL, and I still believe that
    >everything living in Access contributed to the poor performance and
    >crashes. I cannot speak towards the Access Snapshot piece ansd am
    >thus still concerned for the success of this project.
    >
    >My concern is that we may still be looking at a crash scenario despite
    >the SQL move and preaggregated data. Does anyone out there have
    >experience with snapshots and can verify or refute the performance
    >issues mentioned above and the approach we are taking?
    >
    >Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
    >BlueDolphin[/color]

    Comment

    • david epsom dot com dot au

      #3
      Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

      The snapshot viewer is not Access. It is a separate program.
      It runs on the client computer. It is a file viewer like
      Acrobat Reader. Whatever problems you might have, they won't
      be due to heavy use of the snapshot viewer.

      Snapshot files are generated by Access. Access was never
      intended to be a internet report server, no more than MS Word,
      or MS Excel.
      If you are using Access as a report server (like we do),
      then you are pushing the acceptable boundaries, and you
      should accept that the application will need monitoring.

      On the other hand, you can run Report Services on IIS/
      SQL Server, and there is a wizard that will convert simple
      Access reports to IIS/SQL Server/Report Services. It
      may require some work, but you will be placed right in
      the centre of the target market for Report Services, rather
      than off at the edge of the Access target market.
      [color=blue][color=green]
      > >Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load[/color][/color]

      That is to say, Windows (File Services) is known to not
      handle multiple users and major load, and IIS is known to
      be unable to handle multi-threaded applications. Fortunately,
      IIS is only ONE user, and Access/Jet can be configured to be
      single threaded.
      Still, MS has gone to the trouble of building Report Services
      specifically for applications like yours, so it should be
      at least considered.

      (david)


      news:39l6f0tv1c e6a47n4416rk5q4 0pretcttv@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
      > On 12 Jul 2004 10:19:36 -0700, bcaponet@jeffco .k12.co.us (bluedolphin)
      >[color=green]
      > >Hello All:
      > >
      > >I have been brought onboard to help on a project that had some
      > >performance problems last year. I have taken some steps to address
      > >the issues in question, but a huge question mark remains.
      > >
      > >Last year, all of the tables and reports were stored in Access. The
      > >database was put online so that end users could access the reports
      > >online using Snapshot Viewer. The reports were aggregated on the fly,
      > >and the selection criteria available to the end users was passed as
      > >text strings to the query/reports as the searchable criteria as
      > >opposed to an indexed numeric value. (Example: Pass Year_Desc of
      > >200-2003 as opposed to Year_ID, of 3.)
      > >
      > >Hundreds of users were accessing this system. Fortunately not all at
      > >the same time, but it must have been enough people since the system
      > >came down a few times while people were accessing their reports.
      > >
      > >This year, I have preaggregated all reports into a reporting table, so
      > >that no aggregation is happening on the fly when people are pulling
      > >their reports. The only work that will be done to pull up the reports
      > >is to pass the selection criteria to the query that the report is
      > >based on. ALL TABLES including the aggregated reporting tables have
      > >been moved to SQL Server. No tables live in Access anymore. The
      > >selection criteria in the SQL reporting tables all have indexed
      > >numeric fields that will be used to choose the appropriate recordset.
      > >
      > >I think these items represent a big improvement for this process,
      > >making us less likely to come down this year. The theory is that,
      > >Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load on it's
      > >tables. I focused on the fact that everything was in Access and since
      > >it is not a shining star for this type of multiple user/heavy load
      > >scenario, we would be better off in SQL.
      > >
      > >The argument has been put forward, however, that the bottleneck is the
      > >actual instances of Access Opening and closing in order to put out the
      > >Snapshot Viewer for each report. It is argued that the move from
      > >Access to SQL will have little impact, because that was not the
      > >bottleneck. The bottleneck, it is said, was the number of actual
      > >instances that Access must "Open" in order for people to view the
      > >reports.
      > >
      > >Since I have little experience with Snapshots, the argument may in
      > >fact be valid. I stand by the move to SQL, and I still believe that
      > >everything living in Access contributed to the poor performance and
      > >crashes. I cannot speak towards the Access Snapshot piece ansd am
      > >thus still concerned for the success of this project.
      > >
      > >My concern is that we may still be looking at a crash scenario despite
      > >the SQL move and preaggregated data. Does anyone out there have
      > >experience with snapshots and can verify or refute the performance
      > >issues mentioned above and the approach we are taking?
      > >
      > >Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
      > >BlueDolphin[/color]
      >[/color]


      Comment

      • bluedolphin

        #4
        Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

        Is this your scenario:
        Users access the application via a web browser. A classic ASP
        application takes the requests including report criteria, invokes an
        instance of MsAccess to generate a report and exports it as a snapshot
        file, and makes that snapshot file available to the requestor in the
        form of a hyperlink. User clicks the hyperlink, the snapshot file
        downloads and is viewed in the local viewer (or perhaps in-place in
        the browser window).


        Exactly! This is the precisely the scenario.

        Comment

        • Simple

          #5
          Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

          I read your post. If you are worried about the opening and closing of
          Access, the following article shows a good way of doing it:
          eSports News, Results, upcoming Matches & live Matches. Learn tricks and guides in the esports space. ✅ We cover CS:GO, Dota 2, LOL, Overwatch & PUBG. 


          If you have been able to run your Reporting ASP code on Windows 2003
          (with the default IIS that ships with W2K3), please tell me your
          IIS/Component Services settings because I have been unable to run it
          on W2K3. I can run it fine on IIS 5.x / Win XP.

          Thanks.

          "david epsom dot com dot au" <david@epsomdot comdotau> wrote in message news:<40f3ab88$ 0$27241$61ce578 d@news.syd.swif tdsl.com.au>...[color=blue]
          > The snapshot viewer is not Access. It is a separate program.
          > It runs on the client computer. It is a file viewer like
          > Acrobat Reader. Whatever problems you might have, they won't
          > be due to heavy use of the snapshot viewer.
          >
          > Snapshot files are generated by Access. Access was never
          > intended to be a internet report server, no more than MS Word,
          > or MS Excel.
          > If you are using Access as a report server (like we do),
          > then you are pushing the acceptable boundaries, and you
          > should accept that the application will need monitoring.
          >
          > On the other hand, you can run Report Services on IIS/
          > SQL Server, and there is a wizard that will convert simple
          > Access reports to IIS/SQL Server/Report Services. It
          > may require some work, but you will be placed right in
          > the centre of the target market for Report Services, rather
          > than off at the edge of the Access target market.
          >[color=green][color=darkred]
          > > >Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load[/color][/color]
          >
          > That is to say, Windows (File Services) is known to not
          > handle multiple users and major load, and IIS is known to
          > be unable to handle multi-threaded applications. Fortunately,
          > IIS is only ONE user, and Access/Jet can be configured to be
          > single threaded.
          > Still, MS has gone to the trouble of building Report Services
          > specifically for applications like yours, so it should be
          > at least considered.
          >
          > (david)
          >
          >
          > news:39l6f0tv1c e6a47n4416rk5q4 0pretcttv@4ax.c om...[color=green]
          > > On 12 Jul 2004 10:19:36 -0700, bcaponet@jeffco .k12.co.us (bluedolphin)
          > >[color=darkred]
          > > >Hello All:
          > > >
          > > >I have been brought onboard to help on a project that had some
          > > >performance problems last year. I have taken some steps to address
          > > >the issues in question, but a huge question mark remains.
          > > >
          > > >Last year, all of the tables and reports were stored in Access. The
          > > >database was put online so that end users could access the reports
          > > >online using Snapshot Viewer. The reports were aggregated on the fly,
          > > >and the selection criteria available to the end users was passed as
          > > >text strings to the query/reports as the searchable criteria as
          > > >opposed to an indexed numeric value. (Example: Pass Year_Desc of
          > > >200-2003 as opposed to Year_ID, of 3.)
          > > >
          > > >Hundreds of users were accessing this system. Fortunately not all at
          > > >the same time, but it must have been enough people since the system
          > > >came down a few times while people were accessing their reports.
          > > >
          > > >This year, I have preaggregated all reports into a reporting table, so
          > > >that no aggregation is happening on the fly when people are pulling
          > > >their reports. The only work that will be done to pull up the reports
          > > >is to pass the selection criteria to the query that the report is
          > > >based on. ALL TABLES including the aggregated reporting tables have
          > > >been moved to SQL Server. No tables live in Access anymore. The
          > > >selection criteria in the SQL reporting tables all have indexed
          > > >numeric fields that will be used to choose the appropriate recordset.
          > > >
          > > >I think these items represent a big improvement for this process,
          > > >making us less likely to come down this year. The theory is that,
          > > >Access is known to not handle multiple users and major load on it's
          > > >tables. I focused on the fact that everything was in Access and since
          > > >it is not a shining star for this type of multiple user/heavy load
          > > >scenario, we would be better off in SQL.
          > > >
          > > >The argument has been put forward, however, that the bottleneck is the
          > > >actual instances of Access Opening and closing in order to put out the
          > > >Snapshot Viewer for each report. It is argued that the move from
          > > >Access to SQL will have little impact, because that was not the
          > > >bottleneck. The bottleneck, it is said, was the number of actual
          > > >instances that Access must "Open" in order for people to view the
          > > >reports.
          > > >
          > > >Since I have little experience with Snapshots, the argument may in
          > > >fact be valid. I stand by the move to SQL, and I still believe that
          > > >everything living in Access contributed to the poor performance and
          > > >crashes. I cannot speak towards the Access Snapshot piece ansd am
          > > >thus still concerned for the success of this project.
          > > >
          > > >My concern is that we may still be looking at a crash scenario despite
          > > >the SQL move and preaggregated data. Does anyone out there have
          > > >experience with snapshots and can verify or refute the performance
          > > >issues mentioned above and the approach we are taking?
          > > >
          > > >Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
          > > >BlueDolphin[/color]
          > >[/color][/color]

          Comment

          • Tom van Stiphout

            #6
            Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

            On 13 Jul 2004 09:23:14 -0700, bcaponet@jeffco .k12.co.us (bluedolphin)
            wrote:

            OK, why didn't you say so :-)
            No, just kidding.
            But as others have pointed out, this is the most likely bottleneck.
            You're creating Access.Applicat ion objects left and right. They are
            very fat, and don't scale.
            SQL Server Reporting Services is a much better solution. Bite the
            bullet and migrate your reports.

            -Tom.

            [color=blue]
            >Is this your scenario:
            >Users access the application via a web browser. A classic ASP
            >application takes the requests including report criteria, invokes an
            >instance of MsAccess to generate a report and exports it as a snapshot
            >file, and makes that snapshot file available to the requestor in the
            >form of a hyperlink. User clicks the hyperlink, the snapshot file
            >downloads and is viewed in the local viewer (or perhaps in-place in
            >the browser window).
            >
            >
            >Exactly! This is the precisely the scenario.[/color]

            Comment

            • Beth Capone-Trembath

              #7
              Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

              Thank you for the input. Yes I agree we need to migrate to SQl
              reporting or Crystal or something else. We have someone here who has
              created MANY Access reports and is unwilling to give them up until they
              find another easy to use tool with strong graphing functionality. We
              will definately move to another tool with time. At the moment it is too
              much to recreate the over 100 reports that she currently has
              functioning. I will definately look into the reporting suggestion made
              above.

              However, in the meantime, what I'm reading is that we will still have
              the same bottleneck despite the SQL move. Will we get ANY PERFORMANCE
              IMPROVEMENT AT ALL as a result of the move?

              Thanks for your input everyone.
              BlueDolphin


              *** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
              Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!

              Comment

              • david epsom dot com dot au

                #8
                Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

                > the same bottleneck despite the SQL move. Will we get ANY PERFORMANCE[color=blue]
                > IMPROVEMENT AT ALL as a result of the move?[/color]

                No

                In fact, it's just one more thing to break.


                FWIW, the Report Services report builder is kinda similar to the
                Access Report Builder, so it can be learned.

                And, depending on your reports, the wizard might be able to do
                most of the conversion.

                I don't know what you are using for 'graphing'. Most people
                don't like MS Graph in Access, and are willing to switch
                across to Report Services graphs.

                (david)


                "Beth Capone-Trembath" <bcaponet@jeffc o.k12.co.us> wrote in message
                news:40f58406$0 $16412$c397aba@ news.newsgroups .ws...[color=blue]
                > Thank you for the input. Yes I agree we need to migrate to SQl
                > reporting or Crystal or something else. We have someone here who has
                > created MANY Access reports and is unwilling to give them up until they
                > find another easy to use tool with strong graphing functionality. We
                > will definately move to another tool with time. At the moment it is too
                > much to recreate the over 100 reports that she currently has
                > functioning. I will definately look into the reporting suggestion made
                > above.
                >
                > However, in the meantime, what I'm reading is that we will still have
                > the same bottleneck despite the SQL move. Will we get ANY PERFORMANCE
                > IMPROVEMENT AT ALL as a result of the move?
                >
                > Thanks for your input everyone.
                > BlueDolphin
                >
                >
                > *** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
                > Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it![/color]


                Comment

                • Tom van Stiphout

                  #9
                  Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

                  On 14 Jul 2004 19:05:43 GMT, Beth Capone-Trembath
                  <bcaponet@jeffc o.k12.co.us> wrote:

                  With that number of reports, it may make sense to invest in a
                  conversion tool beyond the one built into SQL Sever Reporting Services
                  (RS). After all, a RS report is just an XML text file, which syntax
                  can be understood. Access reports can be opened in design view and
                  queried programmaticall y. Thus the road to a conversion tool that does
                  90% of the work is open.

                  -Tom.

                  [color=blue]
                  >Thank you for the input. Yes I agree we need to migrate to SQl
                  >reporting or Crystal or something else. We have someone here who has
                  >created MANY Access reports and is unwilling to give them up until they
                  >find another easy to use tool with strong graphing functionality. We
                  >will definately move to another tool with time. At the moment it is too
                  >much to recreate the over 100 reports that she currently has
                  >functioning. I will definately look into the reporting suggestion made
                  >above.
                  >
                  >However, in the meantime, what I'm reading is that we will still have
                  >the same bottleneck despite the SQL move. Will we get ANY PERFORMANCE
                  >IMPROVEMENT AT ALL as a result of the move?
                  >
                  >Thanks for your input everyone.
                  >BlueDolphin
                  >
                  >
                  >*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
                  >Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it![/color]

                  Comment

                  • david epsom dot com dot au

                    #10
                    Re: Online Performance - Snapshot Viewer

                    > can be understood. Access reports can be opened in design view and

                    Or saved as text. They look kind of like VB form files.

                    (david)

                    "Tom van Stiphout" <no.spam.tom774 4@cox.net> wrote in message
                    news:37pbf0l24q 96h4vekt4a14moa f2d02qo31@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
                    > On 14 Jul 2004 19:05:43 GMT, Beth Capone-Trembath
                    > <bcaponet@jeffc o.k12.co.us> wrote:
                    >
                    > With that number of reports, it may make sense to invest in a
                    > conversion tool beyond the one built into SQL Sever Reporting Services
                    > (RS). After all, a RS report is just an XML text file, which syntax
                    > can be understood. Access reports can be opened in design view and
                    > queried programmaticall y. Thus the road to a conversion tool that does
                    > 90% of the work is open.
                    >
                    > -Tom.[/color]


                    Comment

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