Linux

[paii, Ron]

Re: Linux

I use compact to copy the front-end to the local computer. It is faster then
using copy on a large front-end.

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:40c4b890$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=blue]
> "paii, Ron" <paii@packairin c.com> wrote...[color=green]
> > I have had a large Access 97 back-end on a Novell server for years and
> > rarely had problems compacting over the network. ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP.[/color]
>
> The word rarely of course should bring up the caution flag. Have you ever
> timed the difference between a network compact and a local one?
>[color=green]
> > As for Samba and Linux, there was a long discussion last year in this[/color]
> group,[color=green]
> > that did not recommended this combination. Has this changed with Samba[/color][/color]
3x?[color=blue]
>
> Not sure. But it seems odd to be so anxious to push the evelope this[/color]
way....[color=blue]
>
>
> --
> MichKa [MS]
> NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>[color=green]
> >
> > "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
> > message news:40c4b210$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=darkred]
> > > As far as I know, Kevin does not mention Linux in the white paper, but[/color][/color][/color]
I[color=blue][color=green]
> > am[color=darkred]
> > > almost certian that the scenario is untested by the Jet team and[/color][/color]
> therefore[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > unsupported .
> > >
> > > Others have claimed that a late enough Samba version allows the[/color][/color][/color]
scenario[color=blue][color=green]
> > to[color=darkred]
> > > work. Now all one needs is (a) a good reason to bother and (b) faith[/color][/color]
> that[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > they will never run into problems.
> > >
> > > Given the fact that the backend should be compacted regularly and[/color][/color]
> compacts[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > over a network are never advised, this seems like a bad idea in any[/color][/color][/color]
case[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > (including the original scenario).
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > MichKa [MS]
> > > NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> > > Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
> > >
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> > > no warranties, and confers no rights.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Peter Steimann[MVP Access]" <PSteimann.News @Timesoft.ch> wrote in[/color][/color]
> message[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > news:2ijosbFnsq kkU2@uni-berlin.de...
> > > > Hi Michael
> > > >
> > > > "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com>[/color][/color][/color]
schrieb[color=blue]
> im[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > Newsbeitrag news:40c35955$1 @news.microsoft .com...
> > > > > See the Kevin Collins article "Understand ing Micosoft Jet[/color][/color][/color]
Locking":[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do not know so much as Kevin does, for shure-;) but:
> > > >
> > > > I do have an Installation running on Access 97 and Suse 8.1 (Samba
> > > > 2.2.7) and i do not have any locking problems in this
> > > > multiuser-environement (5 User). Whatever...it works in my case...
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > >
> > >[/color]
> >
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

Even faster is using a server that you can run the compact on, directly --
impossible on both Netware and Linux but better performance and reliability
for all.


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.


"paii, Ron" <paii@packairin c.com> wrote in message
news:10c9naffqk ld89e@corp.supe rnews.com...[color=blue]
> Rarely is 2 or 3 times in 4 years the repair and compact failed. I never
> confirmed if it was a network problem, I was able to restore from backup[/color]
and[color=blue]
> compact the database. Yes it is faster to backup locally but then I would
> have to move the database to my local disk, compact, then move back to the
> Netware volume.
>
> "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:40c4b890$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=green]
> > "paii, Ron" <paii@packairin c.com> wrote...[color=darkred]
> > > I have had a large Access 97 back-end on a Novell server for years and
> > > rarely had problems compacting over the network. ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP.[/color]
> >
> > The word rarely of course should bring up the caution flag. Have you[/color][/color]
ever[color=blue][color=green]
> > timed the difference between a network compact and a local one?
> >[color=darkred]
> > > As for Samba and Linux, there was a long discussion last year in this[/color]
> > group,[color=darkred]
> > > that did not recommended this combination. Has this changed with Samba[/color][/color]
> 3x?[color=green]
> >
> > Not sure. But it seems odd to be so anxious to push the evelope this[/color]
> way....[color=green]
> >
> >
> > --
> > MichKa [MS]
> > NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> > Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> > no warranties, and confers no rights.
> >
> >[color=darkred]
> > >
> > > "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
> > > message news:40c4b210$1 @news.microsoft .com...
> > > > As far as I know, Kevin does not mention Linux in the white paper,[/color][/color][/color]
but[color=blue]
> I[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > am
> > > > almost certian that the scenario is untested by the Jet team and[/color]
> > therefore[color=darkred]
> > > > unsupported .
> > > >
> > > > Others have claimed that a late enough Samba version allows the[/color][/color]
> scenario[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > to
> > > > work. Now all one needs is (a) a good reason to bother and (b) faith[/color]
> > that[color=darkred]
> > > > they will never run into problems.
> > > >
> > > > Given the fact that the backend should be compacted regularly and[/color]
> > compacts[color=darkred]
> > > > over a network are never advised, this seems like a bad idea in any[/color][/color]
> case[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > (including the original scenario).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > MichKa [MS]
> > > > NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> > > > Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
> > > >
> > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> > > > no warranties, and confers no rights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Peter Steimann[MVP Access]" <PSteimann.News @Timesoft.ch> wrote in[/color]
> > message[color=darkred]
> > > > news:2ijosbFnsq kkU2@uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > Hi Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com>[/color][/color]
> schrieb[color=green]
> > im[color=darkred]
> > > > > Newsbeitrag news:40c35955$1 @news.microsoft .com...
> > > > > > See the Kevin Collins article "Understand ing Micosoft Jet[/color][/color]
> Locking":[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not know so much as Kevin does, for shure-;) but:
> > > > >
> > > > > I do have an Installation running on Access 97 and Suse 8.1 (Samba
> > > > > 2.2.7) and i do not have any locking problems in this
> > > > > multiuser-environement (5 User). Whatever...it works in my case...
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >[/color]
> >
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

[Peter Steimann[MVP Access]]

Re: Linux

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:40c4deec$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=blue]
> Even faster is using a server that you can run the compact on,
> directly --[/color]

As long as you have instaled Access on the Server (who does this?-;) and
you have access to that server-;)
[color=blue]
> impossible on both Netware and Linux but better performance and
> reliability[/color]

Depends on the app. Once a month in my case. And no repairs of the DB
since 2 Years now...

Peter

[Tony Toews]

Re: Linux

"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Even faster is using a server that you can run the compact on, directly --
>impossible on both Netware and Linux but better performance and reliability
>for all.[/color]

But who installs Access on a server? Very few people.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

"Peter Steimann[MVP Access]" <PSteimann.News @Timesoft.ch> wrote...
[color=blue]
> As long as you have instaled Access on the Server (who does this?-;) and
> you have access to that server-;)[/color]

Um, huh? Jet is there automatically.. .. no one needs Access.
[color=blue][color=green]
> > impossible on both Netware and Linux but better performance and
> > reliability[/color]
>
> Depends on the app. Once a month in my case. And no repairs of the DB
> since 2 Years now...[/color]

Again, better perf and better reliability (plus the ability to know that the
scenario is supported) plus no locking worries. All for not doing any of the
pseudo-recommendations for Linux or Novell in this thread.

SO... are these things possible? Of course. If you must do them, will your
app probably live? Yes.

But if you have a choice are they really the best possible options? No, they
are not. And it is amazing that anyone (especially an MVP) would truly
recommend they are the best option on the strength of knowing they are
possible at all.


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

But who has Jet on Win2000 or Server 2003? Everyone.


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.


"Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> wrote in message
news:tb1ac0p69k 9jpaqtpetc7sgic 1o8dn50r2@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >Even faster is using a server that you can run the compact on,[/color][/color]
directly --[color=blue][color=green]
> >impossible on both Netware and Linux but better performance and[/color][/color]
reliability[color=blue][color=green]
> >for all.[/color]
>
> But who installs Access on a server? Very few people.
>
> Tony
> --
> Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
> Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
> read the entire thread of messages.
> Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
> http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm[/color]

[Tony Toews]

Re: Linux

"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>But who has Jet on Win2000 or Server 2003? Everyone.[/color]

Oh, I see. You mean have a VB, C++ or other program automatically run on the server
after midnight using the Jet compacting code.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

"Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> wrote...
[color=blue]
> Oh, I see. You mean have a VB, C++ or other program automatically run on[/color]
the server[color=blue]
> after midnight using the Jet compacting code.[/color]

More or less, yes. :-)


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Tony Toews]

Re: Linux

jafortun@oaklan d.edu (James Fortune) wrote:
[color=blue]
>I have been running samba 3.0.1 as a backend for Access 97 for about
>five weeks. The only comments I have heard so far is that the system
>is running a little faster than before.[/color]

What was it running before? I ask because I'd like to know what versions work well.
[color=blue]
>I use the line 'veto oplock
>files = /*.mdb/*.MDB' in the smb.conf file.[/color]

Was this set on general principles or because you were having problems.
[color=blue]
>The system has about 40 simultaneous users.[/color]

Nice to hear.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

[Peter Steimann[MVP Access]]

Re: Linux

Michael

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:40c8a175$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=blue]
> And how about the compact issue?
>[/color]

When i read you comments, i remember Steve Ballmer at the last Summit,
when he lifted his right hand up to the sky, the right hand down to the
ground. In one hand was Windows, in the other Linux...its compleatly not
important for me which OS he holds in which hand...especial ly in this
issue.

What about the compacting-issue?

It makes no difference where the database is. (Windows, Linux, Novell)

I would never compact a database on the server itself. You tell us jet
is alredy on the Server.But there is no programm installed on a
standard-server-system which allows you to compact a database directly
on the server. The only argument against Novell and Linux is that you
have a chance to install one there.

We are not talking about operating-systems here. Your argument is no
argument to stay away from installing a backend on a non-windows-system.

You're talking about locking-problems on a samba-share: have you ver
tried it? Novell has also no locking-problems, as long as you modify the
standard-parameters from novell (Record-locks, Filelocks)

I'm not an MVP for Windows-Server. I'm working with access in many
different environements, but i see no reason to to pull on a pair of
pink glasses on. If i had to, i would give back my MVP-title
immediately!

There are arguments for Windows-Server against other operating-systems
(and reverse) But that's not the thread here. And it's not Bradley's
question.

Can he install an Access-Backend on a Linux-Box without any problems?
Without any locking-problems? Yes, he can!

Can he compact a database on a linux-box directly, if he whriley wants
to? Yes, he can (Vine and an installed office on the linux-box)

Can he repair and compact a backend on a linux-box without having Vine?
Yes he can copy the backend to a workstation with an installed Office
and do the job there.

So let's stay realistic, not fanatic.

Peter

[Dimitri Furman]

Re: Linux

On Jun 10 2004, 05:26 pm, "Peter Steimann[MVP Access]"
<PSteimann.News @Timesoft.ch> wrote in news:2is4r7Fqro 5iU1@uni-berlin.de:
[color=blue]
> You tell us jet
> is alredy on the Server.But there is no programm installed on a
> standard-server-system which allows you to compact a database directly
> on the server.[/color]

Just FWIW, VBScript should be quite sufficient.

--
remove a 9 to reply by email

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

"Peter Steimann[MVP Access]" <PSteimann.News @Timesoft.ch> wrote...
[color=blue]
> What about the compacting-issue?
>
> It makes no difference where the database is. (Windows, Linux, Novell)[/color]

Actually, that is not true. It matters a lot. Novell's locking techniques
used to allow you to abend the server if you performed complex Jet
operations (including compact). And on any platform it takes longer to
perform the operation if you do not perform it on the local machine.
[color=blue]
> I would never compact a database on the server itself.[/color]

Well, that is your choice. There are countless throngs that see no problem
with doing this.
[color=blue]
> You tell us jet is alredy on the Server.But there is no programm installed[/color]
on a[color=blue]
> standard-server-system which allows you to compact a database directly
> on the server.[/color]

And the ones that MS provides, and the ones I provide. Lots of little
utilities that do important things.
[color=blue]
> The only argument against Novell and Linux is that you
> have a chance to install one there.[/color]

Pretty huge argument for large databases. And the locking issue on Novell is
still an issue (they fixed the crash but the architecural issue is still
there).
[color=blue]
> We are not talking about operating-systems here. Your argument is no
> argument to stay away from installing a backend on a non-windows-system.[/color]

Actually, it is entirely valid, and compact is only one of the issues.
[color=blue]
> You're talking about locking-problems on a samba-share: have you ver
> tried it? Novell has also no locking-problems, as long as you modify the
> standard-parameters from novell (Record-locks, Filelocks)[/color]

Um, so unless you raise the roof on the number of locks, things can fail.
But think about what that number means, and what you are tying up in the way
of resources on that Novell box. I do understand about this issue from
Novell experts enough to know that the standard "increase the locks" answer
is not always the healthy one for the server.
[color=blue]
> I'm not an MVP for Windows-Server. I'm working with access in many
> different environements, but i see no reason to to pull on a pair of
> pink glasses on. If i had to, i would give back my MVP-title
> immediately![/color]

I'm not doing a commercial for the flipping product. But I have a production
database that customers rely on, I will choose a platform that has gone
though the extensive tests that the Jet team does for performance, stress,
regressions, and overall stability. Not one that is untested and therefore
unsupported. Just plain common sense...
[color=blue]
> There are arguments for Windows-Server against other operating-systems
> (and reverse) But that's not the thread here. And it's not Bradley's
> question.[/color]

Good advice does need to color a good answer, though.
[color=blue]
> Can he install an Access-Backend on a Linux-Box without any problems?
> Without any locking-problems? Yes, he can![/color]

Maybe. Its not supported by MS. Is Samba liable if there is some bug in
their implementation that trashes your database?
[color=blue]
> Can he compact a database on a linux-box directly, if he whriley wants
> to? Yes, he can (Vine and an installed office on the linux-box)[/color]

Actually, remote compacting is not great on any platform, and emulation is
not too much better (I would not trust it here).
[color=blue]
> Can he repair and compact a backend on a linux-box without having Vine?
> Yes he can copy the backend to a workstation with an installed Office
> and do the job there.[/color]

Yes, but that takes longer. Without a proven benefit, whats the purpose of
doing all this work?
[color=blue]
> So let's stay realistic, not fanatic.[/color]

Dude, I am being reaslistic, and trying to recommend supported platforms and
techniques that will minimize risk. The fanatics are the ones who are trying
to do stuff just because they can, even when there are good architectural or
support-based reasons to not do them.


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Peter Steimann[MVP Access]]

Re: Linux

Hi Tony

"Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1lmhc0pf3i 3co3ilc3778114v lcqshn0m1@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> jafortun@oaklan d.edu (James Fortune) wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I have been running samba 3.0.1 as a backend for Access 97 for about
>>five weeks. The only comments I have heard so far is that the system
>>is running a little faster than before.[/color]
>
> What was it running before? I ask because I'd like to know what
> versions work well.[/color]

I started with Samba 2.2.2 and had no locking-problems. The Client runs
2.2.7 for about 1 Year now. I did not test with the latest Version 3.0
[color=blue][color=green]
>>I use the line 'veto oplock
>>files = /*.mdb/*.MDB' in the smb.conf file.[/color][/color]

Would be intersting to know! I didn't had to modify the samba.cnf-file

Peter

[David W. Fenton]

Re: Linux

"Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com>
wrote in news:40c8e48a$1 @news.microsoft .com:
[color=blue]
> Is Samba liable if there is some bug in
> their implementation that trashes your database?[/color]

Is Microsoft?

I don't think so!

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]]

Re: Linux

Well, when MS supports the platform and its due to a bug, there is no charge
for the support no matter where it is escalated to, and that includes if
they end up doing hot fixes and such.

I have (on behalf of customers) been able to take advantage of that policy,
and have found the notion of what is supported to be a very comfortable
place upon which to sit.


--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.


"David W. Fenton" <dXXXfenton@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9504D2C 254EDdfentonbwa ynetinvali@24.1 68.128.86...[color=blue]
> "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com>
> wrote in news:40c8e48a$1 @news.microsoft .com:
>[color=green]
> > Is Samba liable if there is some bug in
> > their implementation that trashes your database?[/color]
>
> Is Microsoft?
>
> I don't think so!
>
> --
> David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
> dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc[/color]