Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

**Tony Toews** · Nov 12 '05, 07:29 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Ed" <anonymous@disc ussions.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I am running Access 2002 and just ran the built in Access wizard for
>splitting a database into a back end (with tables) and front end (with
>queries, forms, modules, etc.).
>
>After running the wizard, I opened the table relationship view and noticed
>that all the relationships are missing. Is this supposed to happen? If so,
>why?[/color]

It shouldn't but then I've never used the splitting wizard. I'd go into the BE and
see if the relationship view is still there. You may need to click on the Show All
button on the tool bar.

If the layout is missing then use the appropriate sysrels tool from
www.trigeminal.com to copy the relationships window layout.

And if the relationships are not indeed in the backend you can still use the sysrels
utility to copy the relationships window layout. You'll have to drag and drop the
relationships yourself but that'll be less work.
[color=blue]
>I've noticed that queries are behaving strangely now, seemingly
>because the relationships are not established.[/color]

Tell us more.
[color=blue]
>Am I supposed to go into the back end database and reestablish the
>relationship s? Or, am I supposed to do that in the front end database.[/color]

No, relationships are always created in the MDB in which the tables reside.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

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Tony's Microsoft Access Hint's, Tips and FAQ

**Salad** · Nov 12 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Tony Toews wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Ed" <anonymous@disc ussions.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >I am running Access 2002 and just ran the built in Access wizard for
> >splitting a database into a back end (with tables) and front end (with
> >queries, forms, modules, etc.).
> >
> >After running the wizard, I opened the table relationship view and noticed
> >that all the relationships are missing. Is this supposed to happen? If so,
> >why?[/color]
>
> It shouldn't but then I've never used the splitting wizard. I'd go into the BE and
> see if the relationship view is still there. You may need to click on the Show All
> button on the tool bar.
>
> If the layout is missing then use the appropriate sysrels tool from
> www.trigeminal.com to copy the relationships window layout.
>
> And if the relationships are not indeed in the backend you can still use the sysrels
> utility to copy the relationships window layout. You'll have to drag and drop the
> relationships yourself but that'll be less work.[/color]

Tony, in one app I did I set my relationships in I visited the relationships window
later on and the window had myriads of tables in it, lines crisscrossing all over the
place. It looked like a spaghetti western. Is that normal as you define an application
and build and expand it?

**Tony Toews** · Nov 12 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Salad <oil@vinegar.co m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Tony, in one app I did I set my relationships in I visited the relationships window
>later on and the window had myriads of tables in it, lines crisscrossing all over the
>place. It looked like a spaghetti western. Is that normal as you define an application
>and build and expand it?[/color]

No. Or rather some of mine do indeed look like spaghetti but then I
designed the layouts that way. <smile> One of mine prints on a 48"
plotter and takes three feet of paper.

I have had that happen when I import the BE into a new BE. The
tables are placed on a grid and the lines are running all over the
place.

But this is where the sysrels utility comes in. It will copy the old
relationships window layout.

Tony

--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

Tony's Main Microsoft Access Page

http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

Tony's Microsoft Access Hint's, Tips and FAQ

**Stephen Lebans** · Nov 12 '05, 07:30 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Just as an add-in to this thread there is a utility on my site that
allows you to save/restore multiple views of the Relationship window.

SaveRelationshipView

http://www.lebans.com/saverelationshipview.htm

NEW - Jan 21/2004 A2KSave-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip is an MDB
containing functions to Save and Restore the Relationships View Window.
Allows an unlimited number of different Relationship Window Views to be
saved.

Here is the Access97 version:A97Save-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip

--

HTH
Stephen Lebans

Lebans.com

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.

"Tony Toews" <ttoews@teluspl anet.net> wrote in message
news:c4a810hao8 nfvunnbmfntg5lv 122cal4mt@4ax.c om...[color=blue]
> Salad <oil@vinegar.co m> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >Tony, in one app I did I set my relationships in I visited the[/color][/color]
relationships window[color=blue][color=green]
> >later on and the window had myriads of tables in it, lines[/color][/color]
crisscrossing all over the[color=blue][color=green]
> >place. It looked like a spaghetti western. Is that normal as you[/color][/color]
define an application[color=blue][color=green]
> >and build and expand it?[/color]
>
> No. Or rather some of mine do indeed look like spaghetti but then I
> designed the layouts that way. <smile> One of mine prints on a 48"
> plotter and takes three feet of paper.
>
> I have had that happen when I import the BE into a new BE. The
> tables are placed on a grid and the lines are running all over the
> place.
>
> But this is where the sysrels utility comes in. It will copy the old
> relationships window layout.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> --
> Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
> Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
> read the entire thread of messages.
> Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
> http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm[/color]

**Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]** · Nov 12 '05, 07:32 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>
wrote in message news:AAWQb.7341 1$IF6.1865635@u rsa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb .ca...[color=blue]
> Just as an add-in to this thread there is a utility on my site that
> allows you to save/restore multiple views of the Relationship window.
> http://www.lebans.com/saverelationshipview.htm
> NEW - Jan 21/2004 A2KSave-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip is an MDB
> containing functions to Save and Restore the Relationships View Window.
> Allows an unlimited number of different Relationship Window Views to be
> saved.
>
> Here is the Access97 version:A97Save-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip
>[/color]

Very clever! Though you could have saved a bunch of time using the built in
Access methods for storing different views by using the SysRel utility I
wrote. :-)

--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

**Steve Jorgensen** · Nov 12 '05, 07:32 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:42:47 -0800, "Michael $michka$ Kaplan [MS]"
<michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>
>wrote in message news:AAWQb.7341 1$IF6.1865635@u rsa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb .ca...[color=green]
>> Just as an add-in to this thread there is a utility on my site that
>> allows you to save/restore multiple views of the Relationship window.
>> http://www.lebans.com/saverelationshipview.htm
>> NEW - Jan 21/2004 A2KSave-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip is an MDB
>> containing functions to Save and Restore the Relationships View Window.
>> Allows an unlimited number of different Relationship Window Views to be
>> saved.
>>
>> Here is the Access97 version:A97Save-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip
>>[/color]
>
>Very clever! Though you could have saved a bunch of time using the built in
>Access methods for storing different views by using the SysRel utility I
>wrote. :-)[/color]

Perhaps, I'm not understanding correctly, but I thought the SysRel utility
saved an internal Blob that represents the relationships. Is there any way to
know it's safe to restore those after changes have been made to the tables and
relationships since the time the Blob was saved? That had been my concern.

**Stephen Lebans** · Nov 12 '05, 07:32 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

I actually wanted to go that route Michael but you have not published
the Source code!<grin>
The code only took an hour or so and I enjoyed the mental exercise.
:-)
--

Stephen Lebans

Lebans.com

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:4015a5ea$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=blue]
> "Stephen Lebans"[/color]
<ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>[color=blue]
> wrote in message[/color]
news:AAWQb.7341 1$IF6.1865635@u rsa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb .ca...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Just as an add-in to this thread there is a utility on my site that
> > allows you to save/restore multiple views of the Relationship[/color][/color]
window.[color=blue][color=green]
> > http://www.lebans.com/saverelationshipview.htm
> > NEW - Jan 21/2004 A2KSave-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip is an MDB
> > containing functions to Save and Restore the Relationships View[/color][/color]
Window.[color=blue][color=green]
> > Allows an unlimited number of different Relationship Window Views to[/color][/color]
be[color=blue][color=green]
> > saved.
> >
> > Here is the Access97 version:A97Save-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip
> >[/color]
>
> Very clever! Though you could have saved a bunch of time using the[/color]
built in[color=blue]
> Access methods for storing different views by using the SysRel utility[/color]
I[color=blue]
> wrote. :-)
>
>
> --
> MichKa [MS]
> NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
>
>
>[/color]

**Stephen Lebans** · Nov 12 '05, 07:33 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Michael I finally took a look at the BLOB data in the MSysObjects table.
I was able to decipher the indvidual window coordinates from the data.
Without voiding any NDA you are under can you tell me if the location of
the window coordinates are fixed/static across all versions of Access?
Or do I need to continue to decipher the header for this BLOB?
For anyone interested the relevant BLOB is in the MSysObjects table. The
desired row has a NAME field = "ADMIN".

--

HTH
Stephen Lebans

Lebans.com

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.

"Stephen Lebans"
<ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m> wrote in
message news:2UiRb.7688 7$IF6.1905512@u rsa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb .ca...[color=blue]
> I actually wanted to go that route Michael but you have not published
> the Source code!<grin>
> The code only took an hour or so and I enjoyed the mental exercise.
> :-)
> --
>
> Stephen Lebans
> http://www.lebans.com
> Access Code, Tips and Tricks
> Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
>
>
> "Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:4015a5ea$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=green]
> > "Stephen Lebans"[/color]
> <ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>[color=green]
> > wrote in message[/color]
> news:AAWQb.7341 1$IF6.1865635@u rsa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb .ca...[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Just as an add-in to this thread there is a utility on my site[/color][/color][/color]
that[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > allows you to save/restore multiple views of the Relationship[/color][/color]
> window.[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > http://www.lebans.com/saverelationshipview.htm
> > > NEW - Jan 21/2004 A2KSave-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip is an[/color][/color][/color]
MDB[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > containing functions to Save and Restore the Relationships View[/color][/color]
> Window.[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > Allows an unlimited number of different Relationship Window Views[/color][/color][/color]
to[color=blue]
> be[color=green][color=darkred]
> > > saved.
> > >
> > > Here is the Access97 version:A97Save-RestoreRelation shipWindow.zip
> > >[/color]
> >
> > Very clever! Though you could have saved a bunch of time using the[/color]
> built in[color=green]
> > Access methods for storing different views by using the SysRel[/color][/color]
utility[color=blue]
> I[color=green]
> > wrote. :-)
> >
> >
> > --
> > MichKa [MS]
> > NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> > Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
> >
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> > no warranties, and confers no rights.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[/color]
>[/color]

**Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Steve Jorgensen" <nospam@nospam. nospam> wrote...
[color=blue]
> Perhaps, I'm not understanding correctly, but I thought the SysRel utility
> saved an internal Blob that represents the relationships. Is there any[/color]
way to[color=blue]
> know it's safe to restore those after changes have been made to the tables[/color]
and[color=blue]
> relationships since the time the Blob was saved? That had been my[/color]
concern.

It is perfectly safe, and this is what happens any time you modify schema
outside of Access (using ADO or DAO, etc.) and then later open the window in
Access -- it properly discards items that are no longer present.

--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

**Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>
wrote...
[color=blue]
> I actually wanted to go that route Michael but you have not published
> the Source code!<grin>[/color]

Ah, I am not allowed to do that. The decipher code was easy enough, but the
writing to the system table is not something I am allowed to release as
source (though in the past I have licensed DLL versions for easy calling
from other tools <grin>),

--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

**Michael \(michka\) Kaplan [MS]** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Stephen Lebans" <ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>
wrote...
[color=blue]
> Michael I finally took a look at the BLOB data in the MSysObjects table.
> I was able to decipher the indvidual window coordinates from the data.
> Without voiding any NDA you are under can you tell me if the location of
> the window coordinates are fixed/static across all versions of Access?
> Or do I need to continue to decipher the header for this BLOB?[/color]

Well, its no NDA violation since I dod not know if they ever plan to change
this. Of course, if they do then they have a wizard to update (the Print
Relationships wizard), so they may well keep it stable.
[color=blue]
> For anyone interested the relevant BLOB is in the MSysObjects table. The
> desired row has a NAME field = "ADMIN".[/color]

Actually, it is whatever user name is the person looking at the
relationships window (thats why SysRel lets you save it under any name at
all).

--
MichKa [MS]
NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies

This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights.

**Stephen Lebans** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Thanks for the info Michael.
:-)

--

HTH
Stephen Lebans

Lebans.com

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:4017d1ba$1 @news.microsoft .com...[color=blue]
> "Stephen Lebans"[/color]
<ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>[color=blue]
> wrote...
>[color=green]
> > Michael I finally took a look at the BLOB data in the MSysObjects[/color][/color]
table.[color=blue][color=green]
> > I was able to decipher the indvidual window coordinates from the[/color][/color]
data.[color=blue][color=green]
> > Without voiding any NDA you are under can you tell me if the[/color][/color]
location of[color=blue][color=green]
> > the window coordinates are fixed/static across all versions of[/color][/color]
Access?[color=blue][color=green]
> > Or do I need to continue to decipher the header for this BLOB?[/color]
>
> Well, its no NDA violation since I dod not know if they ever plan to[/color]
change[color=blue]
> this. Of course, if they do then they have a wizard to update (the[/color]
Print[color=blue]
> Relationships wizard), so they may well keep it stable.
>[color=green]
> > For anyone interested the relevant BLOB is in the MSysObjects table.[/color][/color]
The[color=blue][color=green]
> > desired row has a NAME field = "ADMIN".[/color]
>
> Actually, it is whatever user name is the person looking at the
> relationships window (thats why SysRel lets you save it under any name[/color]
at[color=blue]
> all).
>
>
> --
> MichKa [MS]
> NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
>[/color]

**Stephen Lebans** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Well since I am not able to write to the system tables I will have to
keep my current method and use DoCmd to Save the current RelationShip
View to the system table.
Thanks Michael.
:-)
--

HTH
Stephen Lebans

Lebans.com

http://www.lebans.com

Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.

"Michael (michka) Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:4017d139@n ews.microsoft.c om...[color=blue]
> "Stephen Lebans"[/color]
<ForEmailGotoMy .WebSite.-WWWdotlebansdot com@linvalid.co m>[color=blue]
> wrote...
>[color=green]
> > I actually wanted to go that route Michael but you have not[/color][/color]
published[color=blue][color=green]
> > the Source code!<grin>[/color]
>
> Ah, I am not allowed to do that. The decipher code was easy enough,[/color]
but the[color=blue]
> writing to the system table is not something I am allowed to release[/color]
as[color=blue]
> source (though in the past I have licensed DLL versions for easy[/color]
calling[color=blue]
> from other tools <grin>),
>
>
> --
> MichKa [MS]
> NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development
> Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with
> no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
>[/color]

**Tony Toews** · Nov 12 '05, 07:37 PM

Re: Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

"Michael $michka$ Kaplan [MS]" <michkap@online .microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> For anyone interested the relevant BLOB is in the MSysObjects table. The
>> desired row has a NAME field = "ADMIN".[/color]
>
>Actually, it is whatever user name is the person looking at the
>relationship s window (thats why SysRel lets you save it under any name at
>all).[/color]

Ah, yes, I recall a tip from someone, somewhere who stated that if you wanted a
different relationships view to logon to Access using a different userid.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at

Tony's Main Microsoft Access Page

http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

Tony's Microsoft Access Hint's, Tips and FAQ

Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

Table relationships lost when ran splitting wizard. WHY?

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