DBMS advantage and disadvantage

[leiw]

Hello,

My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?


Thanks

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

leiw wrote:

Hello,
>
My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
>
>
Thanks

As in an Oracle group they'll tell you about Oracle.
Ask in a DB2 group they'll tell you about DB2.
Ask here and they'll tell you about SQL Server.
And there is no way you'll be able to weigh the varying opinions.

No group is going to post anything that isn't specific to what they know
best.

If you want objective information this is about the worst way to ask for
it imaginable.

The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.

My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
from the ERP vendor decision first.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[Erland Sommarskog]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.

A company that I do work for, uses an ERP system which appears to come
from Oracle. And based on that experience, I strongly recommend getting
something else. I only use it to report my hours, and the interface for
it sucks big time. At one point, I had to check an invoice and that was
a whole worse! I see colleagues who have to register travel expenses, and
I don't envy them.

Of course, it may be that the local implementation of Oracle ERP is
unusually poor at this site. But I'm really surprised that Oracle agrees
to put its name on such crap.

In any case, there are more alternatives on the market than Oracle and
SAP. I believe that I know of three only in the Nordic countries. Surely
there are a lot more world-wide. Oracle and SAP may be the only on the
global market, and that are able to handle major companies.

My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
from the ERP vendor decision first.

Yup. Get the product first. Then decide on the RDBMS, if the vendor
offer you a choice. But take a look at what they offer. If they suggest
that you would run their system on Access or Paradox, look for a
different vendor. :-)

--
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2005/downloads/books.mspx

Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

[Tony Rogerson]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Hi Leiw,

Ignore DA Morgan - he's the most anti-Microsoft person you will come across;
he is very very anti SQL Server because he knows full well that it's beating
Oracle up left right and centre in the BI and RDBMS market on the Windows
platform - the platform of choice for most businesses.

A place to start to is

http://www.microsoft.com/dynamics/nav/product/customization_3questions.mspx

The Microsoft product set you are talking about for ERP is Microsoft
Dynamics.

Tony.

--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP

http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson

[Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]

http://sqlserverfaq.com

[UK SQL User Community]


"leiw" <none@000.comwr ote in message
news:1535809_21 a64ca47da8a6dfd d3cc7dffcbc4325 @0000.com...

Hello,
>
My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
>
>
Thanks

[Tony Rogerson]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

More biased retric Denial Again?

--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP

http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson

[Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]

http://sqlserverfaq.com

[UK SQL User Community]


"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug .orgwrote in message
news:1211664982 .340643@bubblea tor.drizzle.com ...

leiw wrote:

>Hello,
>>
>My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
>advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
>>
>>
>Thanks

>
As in an Oracle group they'll tell you about Oracle.
Ask in a DB2 group they'll tell you about DB2.
Ask here and they'll tell you about SQL Server.
And there is no way you'll be able to weigh the varying opinions.
>
No group is going to post anything that isn't specific to what they know
best.
>
If you want objective information this is about the worst way to ask for
it imaginable.
>
The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.
>
My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
from the ERP vendor decision first.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

>The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
>and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
>of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
>secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.

>
A company that I do work for, uses an ERP system which appears to come
from Oracle.

I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
opinion one way or the other.

Of course, it may be that the local implementation of Oracle ERP is
unusually poor at this site. But I'm really surprised that Oracle agrees
to put its name on such crap.

One paragraph ago you didn't know the name of the product and now you
are jumping to Oracle putting its name on it? I'm disappointed.

In any case, there are more alternatives on the market than Oracle and
SAP.

There are indeed. But no one I know takes any of them seriously. And
try to find a pool of experienced professionals to install, configure,
and manage them. Good luck! An ERP system without a certain critical
mass of technical expertise in the marketplace is a great way for an IT
manager to get an opportunity to work on a career change.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Tony Rogerson wrote:

Hi Leiw,
>
Ignore DA Morgan - he's the most anti-Microsoft person you will come
across;

The fine folks in Redmond don't seem to agree with you Tony. <G>

Do you have to work at being a clown or is it a talent?
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Tony Rogerson wrote:

More biased retric Denial Again?
>

So, in other words, you think someone should pick their database vendor
first and then go shopping for an ERP vendor. Brilliant. I presume you
get paid by the hour.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[Erland Sommarskog]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
opinion one way or the other.

Let me put it this way: I know very well what I have to use every
day is a piece of crap. It scares me to know that there are probably
people in this corporation that use data the employees enter as some
sort of fact and performs analysis from it. But given how poor the
UI is, as a user you easily cut corners and you are not terribly
exact when you report your times.

When I say that it appears to come from Oracle, it is because it says
Oracle in several screens. But I would really like to think that such crap
can not come out from a vendor like Oracle. It more looks like some
locally developed hack that had a limited budget. In fact, the system
is referred to as TERP where the T comes from the company's name.

It is quite possible that this is a bad implementation of Oracle ERP.
Then again, I would expect the entry forms for time reporting to be
quite standard. Or do they do UI developement for each customer?
Because it is the web UI that sucks big time.

There are indeed. But no one I know takes any of them seriously. And
try to find a pool of experienced professionals to install, configure,
and manage them. Good luck!

As I said, there are at least three local vendors here on the Nordic
market. It is not that all them are thriving, but they are there.

Furthermore, maybe it's worth considering the size of the company.
I suspect that leiw who asked this question is not working for a large
corporation, but rather a small shop with < 100 employees. I have a
feeling that SAP or Oracle ERP is not really the choice here.


--
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2005/downloads/books.mspx

Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

>I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
>come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
>You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
>well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
>opinion one way or the other.

>
Let me put it this way: I know very well what I have to use every
day is a piece of crap.

Most people feel the same way you do and I would expect that the
vast majority are correct.

It scares me to know that there are probably
people in this corporation that use data the employees enter as some
sort of fact and performs analysis from it. But given how poor the
UI is, as a user you easily cut corners and you are not terribly
exact when you report your times.

Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
your employer.

When I say that it appears to come from Oracle, it is because it says
Oracle in several screens. But I would really like to think that such crap
can not come out from a vendor like Oracle. It more looks like some
locally developed hack that had a limited budget. In fact, the system
is referred to as TERP where the T comes from the company's name.

It may well be something from Oracle ... it may not be ... still
impossible to tell. But do keep in mind that Oracle just purchased
PeopleSoft, J.D. Edwards, Siebel, and a large number of other vendor's
products and has not yet had time to create a major release of their
own in any of them. Check into Project Fusion.

It is quite possible that this is a bad implementation of Oracle ERP.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Then again, I would expect the entry forms for time reporting to be
quite standard. Or do they do UI developement for each customer?

Time reporting is always customized. And the best time reporting of
which I am aware in any major ERP system is PeopleSoft's. My
understanding is that it is the PeopleSoft screen that will be used
as the basis for Fusion but that is just rumor and I could be wrong.

Because it is the web UI that sucks big time.

Oracle is no Apple but then it could just be customizations. I can't say.

As I said, there are at least three local vendors here on the Nordic
market. It is not that all them are thriving, but they are there.

You might want to contact Mogens Norgaard at Miracle A/S in Denmark.
He is your local Nordic expert on all things Oracle and SQL Server
though I don't believe Miracle works with apps.

Furthermore, maybe it's worth considering the size of the company.
I suspect that leiw who asked this question is not working for a large
corporation, but rather a small shop with < 100 employees. I have a
feeling that SAP or Oracle ERP is not really the choice here.

You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
the entire issue becomes moot.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[Erland Sommarskog]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
your employer.

Yes. I cannot say that my opinion in this area is very well-founded.
Someone apparently did not care two seconds about user-friendliness.
But exactly where in the chain this happened I don't know. All I can
really say that I'm baffled every time I see these screens and it says
"Oracle". It just don't match for me...

You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
the entire issue becomes moot.

Agreed. An application that still does not support SQL 2005 apparently
lacks viability. The same has to be said about something that only
supports Oracle 9, I guess.

And, yes, first pick the ERP vendor.

--
Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/sql/2005/downloads/books.mspx

Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/books.mspx

[DA Morgan]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

Erland Sommarskog wrote:

DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:

>Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
>ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
>your employer.

>
Yes. I cannot say that my opinion in this area is very well-founded.
Someone apparently did not care two seconds about user-friendliness.
But exactly where in the chain this happened I don't know. All I can
really say that I'm baffled every time I see these screens and it says
"Oracle". It just don't match for me...

Can't help you there. And it might well be a very old version too.
Again I don't know. I'm not a big fan of a huge amount of what is
sold these days. You may well be right it is a lousy product with
a horrendous front-end. My only concern was that you get the facts
before throwing your weight behind an opinion. You are highly
respected in the community and it might not be apparent to some
that there was a lot of information missing.

>You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
>you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
>If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
>the entire issue becomes moot.

>
Agreed. An application that still does not support SQL 2005 apparently
lacks viability. The same has to be said about something that only
supports Oracle 9, I guess.

Exactly.

And, yes, first pick the ERP vendor.

There you have it folks. A bridge across the Atlantic and across the
waters between Oracle and Microsoft. It can be done! Who knows ...
maybe some day world peace. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

[B D Jensen]

Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

On 24 Maj, 21:22, leiw <n...@000.comwr ote:

Hello,
>
My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
>
Thanks

Do you have special requirements? Or what are your requirements?
What type of people do you have available - MS or Oracle?
Best regards
Bjorn D. Jensen