DBMS advantage and disadvantage

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  • leiw

    DBMS advantage and disadvantage

    Hello,

    My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
    advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?


    Thanks
  • DA Morgan

    #2
    Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

    leiw wrote:
    Hello,
    >
    My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
    advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
    >
    >
    Thanks
    As in an Oracle group they'll tell you about Oracle.
    Ask in a DB2 group they'll tell you about DB2.
    Ask here and they'll tell you about SQL Server.
    And there is no way you'll be able to weigh the varying opinions.

    No group is going to post anything that isn't specific to what they know
    best.

    If you want objective information this is about the worst way to ask for
    it imaginable.

    The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
    and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
    of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
    secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.

    My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
    a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
    from the ERP vendor decision first.
    --
    Daniel A. Morgan
    University of Washington
    damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

    Comment

    • Erland Sommarskog

      #3
      Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

      DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
      The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
      and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
      of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
      secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.
      A company that I do work for, uses an ERP system which appears to come
      from Oracle. And based on that experience, I strongly recommend getting
      something else. I only use it to report my hours, and the interface for
      it sucks big time. At one point, I had to check an invoice and that was
      a whole worse! I see colleagues who have to register travel expenses, and
      I don't envy them.

      Of course, it may be that the local implementation of Oracle ERP is
      unusually poor at this site. But I'm really surprised that Oracle agrees
      to put its name on such crap.

      In any case, there are more alternatives on the market than Oracle and
      SAP. I believe that I know of three only in the Nordic countries. Surely
      there are a lot more world-wide. Oracle and SAP may be the only on the
      global market, and that are able to handle major companies.
      My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
      a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
      from the ERP vendor decision first.
      Yup. Get the product first. Then decide on the RDBMS, if the vendor
      offer you a choice. But take a look at what they offer. If they suggest
      that you would run their system on Access or Paradox, look for a
      different vendor. :-)

      --
      Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

      Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

      Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

      Comment

      • Tony Rogerson

        #4
        Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

        Hi Leiw,

        Ignore DA Morgan - he's the most anti-Microsoft person you will come across;
        he is very very anti SQL Server because he knows full well that it's beating
        Oracle up left right and centre in the BI and RDBMS market on the Windows
        platform - the platform of choice for most businesses.

        A place to start to is


        The Microsoft product set you are talking about for ERP is Microsoft
        Dynamics.

        Tony.

        --
        Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP

        [Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]

        [UK SQL User Community]


        "leiw" <none@000.comwr ote in message
        news:1535809_21 a64ca47da8a6dfd d3cc7dffcbc4325 @0000.com...
        Hello,
        >
        My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
        advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
        >
        >
        Thanks

        Comment

        • Tony Rogerson

          #5
          Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

          More biased retric Denial Again?

          --
          Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP

          [Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]

          [UK SQL User Community]


          "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug .orgwrote in message
          news:1211664982 .340643@bubblea tor.drizzle.com ...
          leiw wrote:
          >Hello,
          >>
          >My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
          >advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
          >>
          >>
          >Thanks
          >
          As in an Oracle group they'll tell you about Oracle.
          Ask in a DB2 group they'll tell you about DB2.
          Ask here and they'll tell you about SQL Server.
          And there is no way you'll be able to weigh the varying opinions.
          >
          No group is going to post anything that isn't specific to what they know
          best.
          >
          If you want objective information this is about the worst way to ask for
          it imaginable.
          >
          The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
          and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
          of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
          secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.
          >
          My recommendation is not that you should jump on Oracle without making
          a good evaluation of competing systems. But you should approach this
          from the ERP vendor decision first.
          --
          Daniel A. Morgan
          University of Washington
          damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

          Comment

          • DA Morgan

            #6
            Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

            Erland Sommarskog wrote:
            DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
            >The question is which ERP system are you going to buy? For all intents
            >and purposes there are only two vendors ... Oracle and SAP. Oracle will,
            >of course, preferentially support their own database. And it is no
            >secret that SAP sells most of their systems on top of Oracle.
            >
            A company that I do work for, uses an ERP system which appears to come
            from Oracle.
            I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
            come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
            You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
            well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
            opinion one way or the other.
            Of course, it may be that the local implementation of Oracle ERP is
            unusually poor at this site. But I'm really surprised that Oracle agrees
            to put its name on such crap.
            One paragraph ago you didn't know the name of the product and now you
            are jumping to Oracle putting its name on it? I'm disappointed.
            In any case, there are more alternatives on the market than Oracle and
            SAP.
            There are indeed. But no one I know takes any of them seriously. And
            try to find a pool of experienced professionals to install, configure,
            and manage them. Good luck! An ERP system without a certain critical
            mass of technical expertise in the marketplace is a great way for an IT
            manager to get an opportunity to work on a career change.
            --
            Daniel A. Morgan
            University of Washington
            damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

            Comment

            • DA Morgan

              #7
              Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

              Tony Rogerson wrote:
              Hi Leiw,
              >
              Ignore DA Morgan - he's the most anti-Microsoft person you will come
              across;
              The fine folks in Redmond don't seem to agree with you Tony. <G>

              Do you have to work at being a clown or is it a talent?
              --
              Daniel A. Morgan
              University of Washington
              damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

              Comment

              • DA Morgan

                #8
                Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                Tony Rogerson wrote:
                More biased retric Denial Again?
                >
                So, in other words, you think someone should pick their database vendor
                first and then go shopping for an ERP vendor. Brilliant. I presume you
                get paid by the hour.
                --
                Daniel A. Morgan
                University of Washington
                damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

                Comment

                • Erland Sommarskog

                  #9
                  Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                  DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
                  I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
                  come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
                  You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
                  well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
                  opinion one way or the other.
                  Let me put it this way: I know very well what I have to use every
                  day is a piece of crap. It scares me to know that there are probably
                  people in this corporation that use data the employees enter as some
                  sort of fact and performs analysis from it. But given how poor the
                  UI is, as a user you easily cut corners and you are not terribly
                  exact when you report your times.

                  When I say that it appears to come from Oracle, it is because it says
                  Oracle in several screens. But I would really like to think that such crap
                  can not come out from a vendor like Oracle. It more looks like some
                  locally developed hack that had a limited budget. In fact, the system
                  is referred to as TERP where the T comes from the company's name.

                  It is quite possible that this is a bad implementation of Oracle ERP.
                  Then again, I would expect the entry forms for time reporting to be
                  quite standard. Or do they do UI developement for each customer?
                  Because it is the web UI that sucks big time.
                  There are indeed. But no one I know takes any of them seriously. And
                  try to find a pool of experienced professionals to install, configure,
                  and manage them. Good luck!
                  As I said, there are at least three local vendors here on the Nordic
                  market. It is not that all them are thriving, but they are there.

                  Furthermore, maybe it's worth considering the size of the company.
                  I suspect that leiw who asked this question is not working for a large
                  corporation, but rather a small shop with < 100 employees. I have a
                  feeling that SAP or Oracle ERP is not really the choice here.


                  --
                  Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

                  Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

                  Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

                  Comment

                  • DA Morgan

                    #10
                    Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                    Erland Sommarskog wrote:
                    DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
                    >I would have expected something better than this from you. "Appears to
                    >come?" You don't know what is is. You don't know what version it is?
                    >You don't know how old (obsolete) it may be? And you don't know how
                    >well or poorly managed it has been. Hardly the basis for rendering an
                    >opinion one way or the other.
                    >
                    Let me put it this way: I know very well what I have to use every
                    day is a piece of crap.
                    Most people feel the same way you do and I would expect that the
                    vast majority are correct.
                    It scares me to know that there are probably
                    people in this corporation that use data the employees enter as some
                    sort of fact and performs analysis from it. But given how poor the
                    UI is, as a user you easily cut corners and you are not terribly
                    exact when you report your times.
                    Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
                    ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
                    your employer.
                    When I say that it appears to come from Oracle, it is because it says
                    Oracle in several screens. But I would really like to think that such crap
                    can not come out from a vendor like Oracle. It more looks like some
                    locally developed hack that had a limited budget. In fact, the system
                    is referred to as TERP where the T comes from the company's name.
                    It may well be something from Oracle ... it may not be ... still
                    impossible to tell. But do keep in mind that Oracle just purchased
                    PeopleSoft, J.D. Edwards, Siebel, and a large number of other vendor's
                    products and has not yet had time to create a major release of their
                    own in any of them. Check into Project Fusion.
                    It is quite possible that this is a bad implementation of Oracle ERP.
                    That wouldn't surprise me.
                    Then again, I would expect the entry forms for time reporting to be
                    quite standard. Or do they do UI developement for each customer?
                    Time reporting is always customized. And the best time reporting of
                    which I am aware in any major ERP system is PeopleSoft's. My
                    understanding is that it is the PeopleSoft screen that will be used
                    as the basis for Fusion but that is just rumor and I could be wrong.
                    Because it is the web UI that sucks big time.
                    Oracle is no Apple but then it could just be customizations. I can't say.
                    As I said, there are at least three local vendors here on the Nordic
                    market. It is not that all them are thriving, but they are there.
                    You might want to contact Mogens Norgaard at Miracle A/S in Denmark.
                    He is your local Nordic expert on all things Oracle and SQL Server
                    though I don't believe Miracle works with apps.
                    Furthermore, maybe it's worth considering the size of the company.
                    I suspect that leiw who asked this question is not working for a large
                    corporation, but rather a small shop with < 100 employees. I have a
                    feeling that SAP or Oracle ERP is not really the choice here.
                    You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
                    you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
                    If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
                    the entire issue becomes moot.
                    --
                    Daniel A. Morgan
                    University of Washington
                    damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

                    Comment

                    • Erland Sommarskog

                      #11
                      Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                      DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
                      Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
                      ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
                      your employer.
                      Yes. I cannot say that my opinion in this area is very well-founded.
                      Someone apparently did not care two seconds about user-friendliness.
                      But exactly where in the chain this happened I don't know. All I can
                      really say that I'm baffled every time I see these screens and it says
                      "Oracle". It just don't match for me...
                      You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
                      you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
                      If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
                      the entire issue becomes moot.
                      Agreed. An application that still does not support SQL 2005 apparently
                      lacks viability. The same has to be said about something that only
                      supports Oracle 9, I guess.

                      And, yes, first pick the ERP vendor.

                      --
                      Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, esquel@sommarsk og.se

                      Books Online for SQL Server 2005 at

                      Books Online for SQL Server 2000 at

                      Comment

                      • DA Morgan

                        #12
                        Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                        Erland Sommarskog wrote:
                        DA Morgan (damorgan@psoug .org) writes:
                        >Again I'm not disagreeing. But keep in mind that for any of the major
                        >ERP systems these UI's have undoubtedly been extensively customized by
                        >your employer.
                        >
                        Yes. I cannot say that my opinion in this area is very well-founded.
                        Someone apparently did not care two seconds about user-friendliness.
                        But exactly where in the chain this happened I don't know. All I can
                        really say that I'm baffled every time I see these screens and it says
                        "Oracle". It just don't match for me...
                        Can't help you there. And it might well be a very old version too.
                        Again I don't know. I'm not a big fan of a huge amount of what is
                        sold these days. You may well be right it is a lousy product with
                        a horrendous front-end. My only concern was that you get the facts
                        before throwing your weight behind an opinion. You are highly
                        respected in the community and it might not be apparent to some
                        that there was a lot of information missing.
                        >You may well be right. But that does not change the calculus. First
                        >you pick your ERP vendor. Then you pick the databases they support.
                        >If the ERP vendor is small and only supports SQL Server 2000 then
                        >the entire issue becomes moot.
                        >
                        Agreed. An application that still does not support SQL 2005 apparently
                        lacks viability. The same has to be said about something that only
                        supports Oracle 9, I guess.
                        Exactly.
                        And, yes, first pick the ERP vendor.
                        There you have it folks. A bridge across the Atlantic and across the
                        waters between Oracle and Microsoft. It can be done! Who knows ...
                        maybe some day world peace. <g>
                        --
                        Daniel A. Morgan
                        University of Washington
                        damorgan@x.wash ington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

                        Comment

                        • B D Jensen

                          #13
                          Re: DBMS advantage and disadvantage

                          On 24 Maj, 21:22, leiw <n...@000.comwr ote:
                          Hello,
                          >
                          My company want to use database for ERP, any website to discuss DBMS
                          advantage and disadvantage ? or someone post to here for references ?
                          >
                          Thanks
                          Do you have special requirements? Or what are your requirements?
                          What type of people do you have available - MS or Oracle?
                          Best regards
                          Bjorn D. Jensen

                          Comment

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