What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

[Stef Mientki]

hello,

I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,
filepaths ?
I can think of something like:
- use a relative path if drive is identical to the application (I'm
still a Windows guy)
- use some kind of OS-dependent translation table if on another drive
- use ? if on a network drive

I'm interested what you all use for this kind of problem.
And I wonder why there isn't a standard solution / library in Python
available.

thanks,
Stef Mientki

[drobinow@gmail.com]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Oct 19, 8:35 am, Stef Mientki <stef.mien...@g mail.comwrote:

I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,
filepaths ?

I don't think there is any such thing. What problem are you trying to
solve?

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:35:01 +0200, Stef Mientki wrote:

hello,
>
I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,
filepaths ?

"Perfect"? I can't imagine any scheme which will work on every imaginable
OS, past present and future.

However, in practice I think there are two common forms still in use:
Posix paths, and Windows paths. I believe that OS/2 can deal with Windows
pathnames, and Mac OS X uses Posix paths (I think...). If you have to
support Classic Mac OS or other non-Posix systems, then your life will
become interesting and complicated.

And let's not even consider Unicode issues...

You might find this page useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_(computing)

Note that raw strings are for regular expressions, not Windows paths. Raw
strings can't end in a backslash, so you can't do this:

r'C:\My Documents\'

Instead, you can avoid having to escape backslashes by taking advantage
of the fact that Windows will accept forward slashes as well as
backslashes as path separators, and write 'C:/My Documents/' instead.

I assume you're familiar with the path-manipulation utilities in os.path?

>>import os
>>os.path.split drive('C://My Documents/My File.txt')

('C:\\\\', 'My Documents\\My File.txt')

I had to fake the above output because I'm not running Windows, so excuse
me if I got it wrong.

But honestly, I think your biggest problem isn't finding a platform-
independent way of storing paths, but simply translating between each
OS's conventions on where files should be stored.

In Linux, config files should go into:

~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/

In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
Settings folder, where ever that is.

There's no single string which can represent both of these conventions!



--
Steven

[Duncan Booth]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:

In Linux, config files should go into:
>
~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/
>
In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
Settings folder, where ever that is.
>
There's no single string which can represent both of these conventions!

The first of those should do nicely for both Linux and Windows:

>>os.path.normp ath(os.path.exp anduser('~/.appname'))

'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Dunca n\\.appname'

[Duncan Booth]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:

>>>import os
>>>os.path.spli tdrive('C://My Documents/My File.txt')

('C:\\\\', 'My Documents\\My File.txt')
>
I had to fake the above output because I'm not running Windows, so
excuse me if I got it wrong.

Not that it matters, but:

>>os.path.split drive('C://My Documents/My File.txt')

('C:', '//My Documents/My File.txt')

[Grant Edwards]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On 2008-10-19, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki@g mail.comwrote:

I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,
filepaths ?

The question appears to me to be meaningless. File paths are
not OS independant, so an OS-independant way to store them
doesn't seem to be a useful thing to talk about.

--
Grant

[Eric Wertman]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

>I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,

>filepaths ?

I'm in agreement that perfect probably isn't applicable. If I were
doing this myself, I might store the information in a tuple:

base = 'some root structure ('/' or 'C')
path = ['some','set','o f','path','name s']
filename = 'somefile.ext'

pathdata = (root,path,file name)

and write a couple of simple functions to reconstruct them based on the os.

[Stef Mientki]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths?

Eric Wertman wrote:

>>I (again) wonder what's the perfect way to store, OS-independent,
>>filepaths ?
>>>

>
I'm in agreement that perfect probably isn't applicable. If I were
doing this myself, I might store the information in a tuple:
>
base = 'some root structure ('/' or 'C')
path = ['some','set','o f','path','name s']
filename = 'somefile.ext'
>
pathdata = (root,path,file name)
>
and write a couple of simple functions to reconstruct them based on the os.
>

Eric, I like your idea.
It looks like a workable technique,
the user should initial define the roots once and everything works.
It should even work for network drives and websites.

Duncan, in windows it's begin to become less common to store settings in
Docs&Settings,
because these directories are destroyed by roaming profiles (a big
reason why I can't run Picassa ;-(
It's more common to follow the portable apps approach, store them in the
application directory.

Drobinow, I want to distribute an application with a large number of
docs and examples.
Now for this application I can put everything in subpaths of the
main-application,
but you triggered me to put a warning in my code if I go outside the
application path.
Another application I've in mind, is a data manager (now written in Delpi),
in which I organize all my information: docs, websites, measurement data
etc.

Others, thank you for the ideas, you learende me some new os.path functions.

cheers,
Stef

--

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>

[Aaron Brady]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

Duncan Booth wrote:

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:
>

>In Linux, config files should go into:
>>
>~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/
>>
>In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
>Settings folder, where ever that is.
>>
>There's no single string which can represent both of these conventions!

>
The first of those should do nicely for both Linux and Windows:
>

>>>os.path.norm path(os.path.ex panduser('~/.appname'))

'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Dunca n\\.appname'

A tuple of path elements, I would think.

>>a= ( 'c:', 'windows', 'system' )
>>a= ( '~', 'usr', 'bin' )
>>a= ( '..', 'src' )

You'll want a subclass too, which has a file for the last name, instead
of just folders.

>>a= ( 'c:', 'python', 'python.exe' )

If '..' and '~' aren't universally, recognized, you'll want special
flags.

>>DirUp= type( 'DirUp', (object,), { '__repr__': ( lambda self: 'DirUp' ) } )()
>>a= ( DirUp, 'src' )
>>a

(DirUp, 'src')

As for rendering them, 'win', 'unix', and 'mac' could be methods.

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:40:32 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:
>

>In Linux, config files should go into:
>>
>~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/
>>
>In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
>Settings folder, where ever that is.
>>
>There's no single string which can represent both of these conventions!

>
The first of those should do nicely for both Linux and Windows:
>

>>>os.path.norm path(os.path.ex panduser('~/.appname'))

'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Dunca n\\.appname'

Except Windows users will be wondering why they have a directory starting
with '.' in their home directory. Dot to make files hidden is not AFAIK
supported by Windows.



--
Steven

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:50:46 +0200, Stef Mientki wrote:

Duncan, in windows it's begin to become less common to store settings in
Docs&Settings,
because these directories are destroyed by roaming profiles

Isn't *everything* destroyed by roaming profiles? *wink*

Seriously, I don't know anyone who has anything nice to say about roaming
profiles.

(a big
reason why I can't run Picassa ;-(
It's more common to follow the portable apps approach, store them in the
application directory.

User config files in a global directory? That bites.



--
Steven

[Duncan Booth]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:40:32 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
>

>Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:
>>

>>In Linux, config files should go into:
>>>
>>~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/
>>>
>>In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
>>Settings folder, where ever that is.
>>>
>>There's no single string which can represent both of these
>>conventions !

>>
>The first of those should do nicely for both Linux and Windows:
>>

>>>>os.path.nor mpath(os.path.e xpanduser('~/.appname'))

>'C:\\Documen ts and Settings\\Dunca n\\.appname'

>
>
Except Windows users will be wondering why they have a directory
starting with '.' in their home directory. Dot to make files hidden is
not AFAIK supported by Windows.
>

The leading dot doesn't make the files hidden on Windows, but there's no
reason why you can't create files/folders with a leading dot and many
programs do just that. On the machine I'm on right now, 'dir .*' shows me:

Directory of C:\Documents and Settings\Duncan

18/10/2008 15:48 <DIR .
18/10/2008 15:48 <DIR ..
22/09/2008 20:28 45 .appcfg_nag
30/07/2004 09:28 244 .bashrc
18/01/2007 10:50 6,783 .bash_history
11/06/2006 12:30 <DIR .borland
06/04/2004 15:43 365 .emacs-places
11/03/2004 12:34 <DIR .emacs.d
08/01/2007 19:35 30,390 .fonts.cache-1
03/05/2008 18:07 <DIR .gimp-2.0
14/01/2005 14:34 <DIR .idlerc
11/06/2006 12:36 <DIR .jbuilder2005
27/06/2005 12:44 3 .leoID.txt
11/06/2006 12:43 <DIR .Nokia
11/06/2006 12:36 <DIR .primetime2005
11/06/2006 12:13 <DIR .qualitycentral
04/02/2004 12:24 <DIR .ssh
12/08/2004 14:30 <DIR .thumbnails
30/07/2004 14:11 49 .Xauthority
29/07/2004 16:25 12 .Xdefaults
29/07/2004 14:36 <DIR .xemacs
17/08/2006 09:19 2,869 .XWinrc

not to mention the thousands of .svn folders scattered across the rest of
the system.

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:50:46 +0200, Stef Mientki wrote:

Duncan, in windows it's begin to become less common to store settings in
Docs&Settings,
because these directories are destroyed by roaming profiles (a big
reason why I can't run Picassa ;-(
It's more common to follow the portable apps approach, store them in the
application directory.

What do you do when users don't have write permission for the application
directory?


--
Steven

[Ross Ridge]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

Stef Mientki wrote:

>Duncan, in windows it's begin to become less common to store settings in
>Docs&Setting s,
>because these directories are destroyed by roaming profiles (a big
>reason why I can't run Picassa ;-(
>It's more common to follow the portable apps approach, store them in the
>application directory.

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:

>What do you do when users don't have write permission for the application
>directory?

Use the application data directory (if you want it to roam), or the
local application data directory (if not). However, the normal place
to store settings on Windows is in the registry.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.u waterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //

[Steven D'Aprano]

Re: What's the perfect (OS independent) way of storing filepaths ?

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20:06 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:

Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:
>

>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:40:32 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
>>

>>Steven D'Aprano <steve@REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com .auwrote:
>>>
>>>In Linux, config files should go into:
>>>>
>>>~/.<appname>/ or /etc/<appname>/
>>>>
>>>In Windows (which versions?) then should go into the Documents And
>>>Settings folder, where ever that is.
>>>>
>>>There's no single string which can represent both of these
>>>convention s!
>>>
>>The first of those should do nicely for both Linux and Windows:
>>>
>>>>>os.path.no rmpath(os.path. expanduser('~/.appname'))
>>'C:\\Document s and Settings\\Dunca n\\.appname'

>>
>>
>Except Windows users will be wondering why they have a directory
>starting with '.' in their home directory. Dot to make files hidden is
>not AFAIK supported by Windows.
>>

The leading dot doesn't make the files hidden on Windows, but there's no
reason why you can't create files/folders with a leading dot and many
programs do just that. On the machine I'm on right now, 'dir .*' shows
me:

[snip]

And 75% [1] of average Windows users will either delete the file, move it
to a more convenient[2] location, or edit the file name to remove the dot.

I'm not saying you can't use files with a leading period under Windows.
You can name all your config files using Morse code if you want. I'm
saying it breaks the expected Windows file location guidelines, and it
displays a shameful lack of care by the programmer. Windows users are
more forgiving of badly behaved programs than Macintosh users, but even
so, it's pretty shoddy to ignore a platform's standard file locations.
Unix/Linux coders would rightly be annoyed if some tool created a
directory "/Program Files" instead of using the appropriate /bin
directory. This is no different.





[1] Based on my experience of the typical Windows user. YMMV.

[2] And they are right to do so. Programs that dump config files and
directories, hidden or not, in the top level of the user's home directory
are incredibly rude. It may have been a Unix standard for as long as
there has been a Unix, but it's still the programming equivalent of
coming into somebody's house and throwing your tools all over their
living room floor.



--
Steven