python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

[Helmut Jarausch]

Hi,

do I miss something (I do hope so) or is switching to Python3
really hard for Latin1-users?

My simplest hello world script - which uses a few German
umlaut characters - doesn't look very intuitive.
I have to set an internal property (with leading underscore)
for each output file I'm using - right?

#!/usr/local/bin/python3.0
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

import sys

# the following call doesn't do the job
# sys.setfilesyst emencoding('lat in1')

# but this ugly one (to be done for each output file)
sys.stdout._enc oding='latin1'

print("Hallo, Süßes Python")


Thanks for any enlightening on that subject,
Helmut.

--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[pjacobi.de@googlemail.com]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Hi Helmut, All,

do I miss something (I do hope so) or is switching to Python3
really hard for Latin1-users?

It's as complicated as ever -- if you have used unicode strings
in the past (as the 3.0 strings now are always unicode strings).

# sys.setfilesyst emencoding('lat in1')

This cares about the character encoding in filenames, not
in file content.

sys.setdefaulte ncoding('iso-8859-1') # or 'latin1'
would do the job, but only in sitecustomize.p y. After
initializing, the function is no longer available.

And using it in sitecustomize.p y is sort of discouraged.

IMHO the assumptions the typical Python installation makes
about the character encoding used in the system are much too
conservative. E.g. under Windows it should it use
GetLocaleInfo (LOCALE_USER_DE FAULT, LOCALE_IDEFAULT ANSICODEPAGE, ...).

Then a lot of things would work out of the box. Of course
including some methods to shoot yourself in the foot, which
you are prevented from by the current behaviour.


Regards,
Peter

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

do I miss something (I do hope so) or is switching to Python3

really hard for Latin1-users?

Why do you want to switch? sys.stdout.enco ding should already be
iso-8859-1, if you are a Latin1-user.

Regards,
Martin

[Brian Quinlan]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Hey Helmut,

Did you try just:

print("Hallo, Süßes Python")

Cheers,
Brian

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

Hi,
>
do I miss something (I do hope so) or is switching to Python3
really hard for Latin1-users?
>
My simplest hello world script - which uses a few German
umlaut characters - doesn't look very intuitive.
I have to set an internal property (with leading underscore)
for each output file I'm using - right?
>
#!/usr/local/bin/python3.0
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_
>
import sys
>
# the following call doesn't do the job
# sys.setfilesyst emencoding('lat in1')
>
# but this ugly one (to be done for each output file)
sys.stdout._enc oding='latin1'
>
print("Hallo, Süßes Python")
>
>
Thanks for any enlightening on that subject,
Helmut.
>

[Ben Finney]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch@skyne t.bewrites:

I have to set an internal property (with leading underscore)
for each output file I'm using - right?

If you're referring to the source encoding declaration: No,
underscores have no effect. The specification is at
<URL:http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/encodings.html> .

#!/usr/local/bin/python3.0
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

I'm not sure why you use underscores in this line. The usual form is
to use a mode line as recognised by Emacs::

# -*- coding: latin1 -*-

or Vim::

# vim: fileencoding=la tin1 :

--
\ “Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?” “I think so, |
`\ Brain, but don't you need a swimming pool to play Marco Polo?” |
_o__) —_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Martin v. Löwis wrote:

>do I miss something (I do hope so) or is switching to Python3
>really hard for Latin1-users?

>
Why do you want to switch? sys.stdout.enco ding should already be
iso-8859-1, if you are a Latin1-user.
>

What defines me as latin1-user?

commenting
# sys.stdout._enc oding='latin1'


I get
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "latin1.py" , line 8, in <module>

File "/usr/local/lib/python3.0/io.py", line 1485, in write
b = encoder.encode( s)
File "/usr/local/lib/python3.0/encodings/ascii.py", line 22, in encode
return codecs.ascii_en code(input, self.errors)[0]
UnicodeEncodeEr ror: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 1-2:
ordinal not in range(128)

So my system seems to be an ASCII system?


Thanks,
Helmut

--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Ben Finney wrote:

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch@skyne t.bewrites:
>

>I have to set an internal property (with leading underscore)
>for each output file I'm using - right?

>
If you're referring to the source encoding declaration: No,
underscores have no effect. The specification is at
<URL:http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/encodings.html> .
>

>#!/usr/local/bin/python3.0
># _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

>
I'm not sure why you use underscores in this line. The usual form is
to use a mode line as recognised by Emacs::
>
# -*- coding: latin1 -*-
>
or Vim::
>
# vim: fileencoding=la tin1 :
>

No, I meant the underscore in sys.stdout._enc oding='latin1'
^

As for the source encoding, I have used the underscore version
which seems to work, as well.

Thanks,
Helmut.


--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Brian Quinlan wrote:

Hey Helmut,
>
Did you try just:
>
print("Hallo, Süßes Python")
>

Yes, but that doesn't work here.
Please see my reply to Martin's reply.

Thanks,
Helmut.



--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Brian Quinlan wrote:

Hey Helmut,
>
Did you try just:
>
print("Hallo, Süßes Python")
>

Yes, but that doesn't work here.
Please see my reply to Martin's reply.

Thanks,
Helmut.



--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[Orestis Markou]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

I would just use UTF-8 and be done with it.

Set your editor to write UTF-8 files, set the correct #coding at your
python script, make sure your terminal supports outputting UTF-8
characters (and your font has the correct glyphs) and everything
should be fine. No trickery required.

Even for Python 2.x, the only extra thing needed was the u"" kind of
strings. No other trickery in sys.stdout required. What platform do
you use?

Orestis
--
orestis@orestis .gr

http://orestis.gr/

On 15 Oct 2008, at 11:12, Helmut Jarausch wrote:

Brian Quinlan wrote:

>Hey Helmut,
>Did you try just:
>print("Hallo , Süßes Python")

>
Yes, but that doesn't work here.
Please see my reply to Martin's reply.
>
Thanks,
Helmut.
>
>
>
--
Helmut Jarausch
>
Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Paul Boddie]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

On 15 Okt, 12:08, Helmut Jarausch <jarau...@igpm. rwth-aachen.de>
wrote:

>
What defines me as latin1-user?

What does sys.stdout.enco ding say? In Python 2.x, at least, that
attribute should reflect the capabilities of your environment
(specifically, the character encoding) and help determine whether it
makes sense for Python to try and encode Unicode objects (plain
strings in Python 3.x) using a particular output encoding when
printing those objects to the display.

Paul

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Paul Boddie wrote:

On 15 Okt, 12:08, Helmut Jarausch <jarau...@igpm. rwth-aachen.de>
wrote:

>What defines me as latin1-user?

>
What does sys.stdout.enco ding say? In Python 2.x, at least, that

It says ansi_x3.4-1968

Where can I change this?

attribute should reflect the capabilities of your environment
(specifically, the character encoding) and help determine whether it
makes sense for Python to try and encode Unicode objects (plain
strings in Python 3.x) using a particular output encoding when
printing those objects to the display.
>

Thanks,
Helmut.


--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

[Diez B. Roggisch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

Paul Boddie wrote:

>On 15 Okt, 12:08, Helmut Jarausch <jarau...@igpm. rwth-aachen.de>
>wrote:

>>What defines me as latin1-user?

>>
>What does sys.stdout.enco ding say? In Python 2.x, at least, that

>
It says ansi_x3.4-1968
>
Where can I change this?

By changing your console's terminal settings. See what

locale -a

outputs.

See this:


(devtools)dir@c lient8049:~$ locale -a
C
en_AU.utf8
en_BW.utf8
en_CA.utf8
en_DK.utf8
en_GB.utf8
en_HK.utf8
en_IE.utf8
en_IN
en_NZ.utf8
en_PH.utf8
en_SG.utf8
en_US.utf8
en_ZA.utf8
en_ZW.utf8
POSIX
(devtools)dir@c lient8049:~$ python
Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
[GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright" , "credits" or "license" for more information.
Welcome to rlcompleter2 0.96
for nice experiences hit <tabmultiple times

>>import sys
>>sys.stdout.en coding

'UTF-8'

>>>

Diez

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

What defines me as latin1-user?

That your locale is based on Latin-1, e.g. because it is a German
locale. How precisely that works depends on the operating system.

So my system seems to be an ASCII system?

At least that's what Python determined. If Python couldn't have found
out that you usually use Latin-1, your system is misconfigured. If
Python could have found out, but failed to do so, it's a bug in Python.

Regards,
Martin

[Helmut Jarausch]

Re: python3 - the hardest hello world ever ?

Martin v. Löwis wrote:

>What defines me as latin1-user?

>
That your locale is based on Latin-1, e.g. because it is a German
locale. How precisely that works depends on the operating system.
>

>So my system seems to be an ASCII system?

>
At least that's what Python determined. If Python couldn't have found
out that you usually use Latin-1, your system is misconfigured. If
Python could have found out, but failed to do so, it's a bug in Python.
>

Many thanks, it works when setting the LANG environment variable.

Still, I wished it were possible call sys.setdefaulte ncoding
at the very beginning of a script.

Why isn't that possible?

Helmut.


--
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany