Integer dicision

[bdsatish]

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?

>(9/2)

4

>(-9/2)

-5

Why is it -5 ? I expect it to be -4 ? Because, in C/C++, 9/2 is 4 and
so negative of it, (-9/2) is -4.

What should I do to get C-like behavior ?

[Steve Holden]

Re: Integer dicision

bdsatish wrote:

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?
>

>>(9/2)

4
>

>>(-9/2)

-5
>
Why is it -5 ? I expect it to be -4 ? Because, in C/C++, 9/2 is 4 and
so negative of it, (-9/2) is -4.
>
What should I do to get C-like behavior ?

Use C?

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

[jim]

Re: Integer dicision


it rounds down. 4 is less than 4.5
and -5 is less than -4.5.

On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 21:28 -0700, bdsatish wrote:

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?
>

(9/2)

4
>

(-9/2)

-5
>
Why is it -5 ? I expect it to be -4 ? Because, in C/C++, 9/2 is 4 and
so negative of it, (-9/2) is -4.
>
What should I do to get C-like behavior ?

[casevh]

Re: Integer dicision

On Apr 10, 9:28 pm, bdsatish <bdsat...@gmail .comwrote:

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?

Python defines the quotient and remainder from integer division so
that a = qb + r and 0<=r < abs(b). C/C++ lets the remainder be
negative.

>>divmod(-9,2)

(-5, 1)

>>divmod(9,2)

(4, 1)

casevh

[Paul Hankin]

Re: Integer dicision

On Apr 11, 6:06 am, casevh <cas...@gmail.c omwrote:

On Apr 10, 9:28 pm, bdsatish <bdsat...@gmail .comwrote:
>

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?

>
Python defines the quotient and remainder from integer division so
that a = qb + r and 0<=r < abs(b). C/C++ lets the remainder be
negative.

On Apr 11, 6:06 am, casevh <cas...@gmail.c omwrote:

On Apr 10, 9:28 pm, bdsatish <bdsat...@gmail .comwrote:
>

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?

>
Python defines the quotient and remainder from integer division so
that a = qb + r and 0<=r < abs(b). C/C++ lets the remainder be
negative.

On Apr 11, 6:06 am, casevh <cas...@gmail.c omwrote:

On Apr 10, 9:28 pm, bdsatish <bdsat...@gmail .comwrote:
>

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?

>
Python defines the quotient and remainder from integer division so
that a = qb + r and 0<=r < abs(b). C/C++ lets the remainder be
negative.

(Puts language lawyer hat on)

That's not accurate: r can be negative. To quote the reference manual:
'The modulo operator always yields a result with the same sign as its
second operand (or zero); the absolute value of the result is strictly
smaller than the absolute value of the second operand.'

divmod(9, -2) # (-5, -1)

Both C and Python define q = a / b and r = a % b to satisfy a = q * b
+ r, where -abs(b) < r < abs(b).

Where they differ:
Python: r has the same sign of b (or 0).
C99: r has the same sign as a (or 0).
C89 (Standard C): It's implementation defined what sign r has if
either a or b is negative.

This means python already has C-like behaviour... it's compatible with
standard C, although not with C99.

--
Paul Hankin

[Mark Wooding]

Re: Integer dicision

bdsatish <bdsatish@gmail .comwrote:

How does (a/b) work when both 'a' and 'b' are pure integers ?
>

>>(9/2)

4
>

>>(-9/2)

-5
>
Why is it -5 ? I expect it to be -4 ? Because, in C/C++, 9/2 is 4 and
so negative of it, (-9/2) is -4.

Some background on the situation:

Integer division and remainder operators have to satisfy two axioms:

y * (x/y) + x%y = x

and

|x%y| < |y|

(The former is just the definition of remainder, and the latter is
necessary to get Euclid's algorithm to work.) When x and y are both
nonnegative it's easy to agree on the right behaviour. When x or y is
negative then we get conflicting requirements.

On the one hand, you get people who expect that (-x)/y == -(x/y).

On the other hand, you get people who expect 0 <= x%y < y if y >= 0.

Unfortunately, you can't have both and still satisfy the integer-
division axioms. C89 didn't specify which behaviour you got. C99 is in
the first camp. Python picked the second (long before C99 came out).

Which is right? I don't think that's actually a well-posed question:
both have uses. I certainly find myself using the latter behaviour
(floor, or round towards -infinity) almost exclusively, but then I'm
mainly doing number theory and cryptography, and I find the bounds on
the remainder very convenient.

Heedful of this mess, Common Lisp provides four (!) different integer
division functions (in addition to `/', which does exact rational
division on integers):

* (floor X Y) -Q R, where Q is the largest integer such that Q <=
X/Y, and R = X - Q Y; R is also available as (mod X Y).

* (ceiling X Y) -Q R, where Q is the smallest integer such that Q >=
X/Y, and R = X - Q Y.

* (truncate X Y) -Q R, where Q is the integer with the greatest
magnitude such that Q has the same sign as X/Y (or is zero) and |Q|
<= |X/Y|; again R = X - Q Y; R is also available as (rem X Y).

* (round X Y) -Q R, where Q is the nearest integer to X/Y (rounding
ties towards even numbers), and R = X - Q Y.

Gluing all this into Python is tricky, partly because the plethora of
options seems somewhat unPythonic (at least to me), and partly because
it relies on Common Lisp's behaviour of throwing away unwanted
additional return values.

What should I do to get C-like behavior ?

I would have said

abs(x) / abs(y) * sgn(x) * sgn(y)

but Python doesn't seem to have a signum function. :-(

I'd recommend thinking carefully about your problem and seeing whether
the existing floor-divide behaviour can't be made to fit (or indeed if
it's not actually better anyway). If that still doesn't help then
you'll have to solve the problem the hard way.

def trunc_divmod(x, y):
"""
Return truncating quotient and remainder for X/Y.

Assumes Y 0.
"""
q, r = divmod(x, y)
if x < 0 and r != 0:
r -= y
q += 1
return q, r

-- [mdw]