Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

[Rob McCrea]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:[color=blue]
> "Hans Nowak" <hans@zephyrfal con.org> wrote in message
> If plain "Idle" is the tool you prefer, I could get my old Slackware 486/66
> with 4 MB RAM down from the loft for you![/color]

No, IDLE is too heavy and intrusive. As I said, I like Editplus.

I did just double check.

Rob

[JanC]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Neil Benn schreef:
[color=blue]
> This is just a small suggestion but one tool that you could
> look at is jedit (http://www.jedit.org)[/color]

64 MiB RAM for Windows + JVM + JEdit + Python console + browser + ... ?

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

[Daniel Ellison]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Alex Martelli wrote:[color=blue]
> Daniel Ellison <daniel@syrinx. net> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>It *has* to be mentioned, of course, that Vim (http://www.vim.org) has
>>nearly every feature mentioned about EditPlus and all the other IDEs,[/color]
>
>
> Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
> GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
> can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
> interface _is_ a pity.
>
>
> Alex[/color]

Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen
files visible at the same time (I rarely have five visible
concurrently), but every file you've opened and closed in a session is
still available without having to retrieve it from the file system again.

The only thing Vim doesn't have is project management. But I do believe
there are Vim scripts that can handle this function to a certain extent.

Anyway, I'm not here to convert anyone. I just know that every time I've
tried to move to another editor I always end up back at Vim.

Dan

[Alex Martelli]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Daniel Ellison <daniel@syrinx. net> wrote:
...[color=blue][color=green]
> > Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
> > GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
> > can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
> > interface _is_ a pity.[/color][/color]
...[color=blue]
> Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
> to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
> window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen[/color]

I've used VIM since day one (and vi before then) and yet I consider its
"partitioni ng or splitting window" a substantial productivity loss
compared to tabbed editors. Not a matter of getting used to it, just
ergonomically inferior.
[color=blue]
> The only thing Vim doesn't have is project management. But I do believe
> there are Vim scripts that can handle this function to a certain extent.[/color]

That one I don't miss in the least.
[color=blue]
> Anyway, I'm not here to convert anyone. I just know that every time I've
> tried to move to another editor I always end up back at Vim.[/color]

Me too, but that's part of why I grouse so badly about the few things
Vim doesn't do _right_. When I'm dialed in, no GUI, slow line, and have
to use vim without the G, sure, kludges like window splitting are better
than nothing. But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)


Alex

[Roel Schroeven]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Alex Martelli wrote:
[color=blue]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
>>>GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
>>>can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
>>>interface _is_ a pity.[/color][/color]
>
> Me too, but that's part of why I grouse so badly about the few things
> Vim doesn't do _right_. When I'm dialed in, no GUI, slow line, and have
> to use vim without the G, sure, kludges like window splitting are better
> than nothing. But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
> tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
> be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
> Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)[/color]

To each his own, but in my experience with :bn, :bp, CTRL-6 and :buf +
tab completion, vim works about as well as tabbed editing. Requires more
commands to know then a GUI, but that's not a problem for vim-lovers.

--
"Codito ergo sum"
Roel Schroeven

[Caleb Hattingh]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:16:22 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit@yahoo. com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
> Daniel Ellison <daniel@syrinx. net> wrote:
> ...[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > Except, no tabbed interface when editing multiple files (not even with
>> > GVIM: just ONE window, as seen from the OS/GUI level, even though vim
>> > can partition it). Vim is my favourite editor, but the lack of tabbed
>> > interface _is_ a pity.[/color][/color]
> ...[color=green]
>> Ah, but that partitioning, or splitting windows, is a viable alternative
>> to tabs. Once one gets used to it, splitting and moving from window to
>> window is done without thought. No, it's not convenient to have a dozen[/color]
>
> I've used VIM since day one (and vi before then) and yet I consider its
> "partitioni ng or splitting window" a substantial productivity loss
> compared to tabbed editors. Not a matter of getting used to it, just
> ergonomically inferior.[/color]
[color=blue]
> But mostly I'm on a GUI, with gvim, and the lack of
> tabbed editing just sucks. Next time I have some spare time (that will
> be the day) I'll give emacs+its vi emulations another try, I think.
> Most likely I'll come back to Vim and start grousing again, tho...;-)
>
>
> Alex[/color]

Alex

I initially had the same irritation, but:

I mapped (for example) keys F3 and F4 in ViM to switch between buffers
like so:

<inside .vimrc>
" Putting '!' after 'map' causes it to work regardless of current mode.
map! F3 <ESC>:bn!<CR>
map! F4 <ESC>:bp!<CR>
<fin>

Accessing multiple buffers has become a non-issue for me. In fact, I now
*prefer* this to tabbed editing. This, coupled with global marks (A-Z)
makes editing multiple files real easy.

If you really do want a list of buffers in gvim, the 'buffers' menu does
tear off...

I do hate window splitting though - the loss of screen real-estate is too
painful.

Thanks
Caleb

[AkioIto]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

Carlos Ribeiro wrote:[color=blue]
> Oh well. A mailing list is not the most appropriate place for rants[/color]
(a[color=blue]
> blog is better), but it's still better than keeping it for myself.
>
> I'm frustrated. My search for a good IDE to support my activities --
> doing development for Python in the Windows environment -- are not
> being succesful as I had originally dreamt. I have big constraints on
> what can I do now; money is not an option, and my current machine is
> still useful but it's below par for more advanced stuff. It's my
> fault? Probably. But it's all that I have -- a 500MHz PC with 64MB[/color]
and[color=blue]
> Win98 SE. It has to be Windows, for reasons beyond my control (read
> wife and kids :-).
>[/color]
Look at http://www.pspad.com/en/index.html.
Very good and smart editor for Python and other languages.
You even can set menu for brazillian portuguese! And it's free...
"A dica vem com um certo atrazo, mas espero que seja util".

[Nick Vargish]

Re: Ranting about the state of Python IDEs for Windows

"AkioIto" <itoakya@yahoo. co.jp> writes:
[color=blue]
> Look at http://www.pspad.com/en/index.html.[/color]

Thanks for the tip, looks perfect for the flash memory toolkit, since
it can just run from the directory it was unpacked into.

Nick

--
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print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y )-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=o bwAcboefstobudi/psh?')