Sudden increase in php-jobs

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
but shows the same trend:

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtrends/trend/q-asp,+jsp,+php,+ruby,+python,+coldfusion,+perl

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=perl%2Cpython%2Cphp%2Cruby

What happened?

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
but shows the same trend:
>

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtrends/trend/q-asp,+jsp,+php,+ruby,+python,+coldfusion,+perl

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=perl%2Cpython%2Cphp%2Cruby

>
What happened?

I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.

For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
employment - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?

The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
but shows the same trend:

>

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby

>

What happened?

>
I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
bad.  The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>
For instance - it lists the number of jobs.  But how many of those might
have been posted on multiple sites?  How many are for full time
employment - which means more than a short time gig.  How many are
paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>
The list goes on.  As I said.  Statistics like this are meaningless.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>but shows the same trend:
>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>What happened?

>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>
>For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
>have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
>employment - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>
>The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>
>--
>============== ====
>Remove the "x" from my email address
>Jerry Stuckle
>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>jstuck...@attg lobal.net
>============== ====

>
These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months

So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>but shows the same trend:
>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p....
>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>What happened?
I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
bad.  The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.

>

For instance - it lists the number of jobs.  But how many of those might
have been posted on multiple sites?  How many are for full time
employment - which means more than a short time gig.  How many are
paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?

>

The list goes on.  As I said.  Statistics like this are meaningless..

>

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

>

These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months

>
So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
each has its own source
It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
this degree

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>What happened?
>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>>bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
>>>have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
>>>employment - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
>>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>--
>>>============ ======
>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>jstuck...@at tglobal.net
>>>============ ======
>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months

>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>
>--
>============== ====
>Remove the "x" from my email address
>Jerry Stuckle
>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>jstuck...@attg lobal.net
>============== ====

>
You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
each has its own source
It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
this degree

Not at all. There is nothing scientific about the sampling. The entire
"report" is invalid.

No, figures don't lie. But liars can figure. And 83% of statistics in
the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot draw a
definite conclusion
You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
that these trends can be true

Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
developers.
What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
course in the outside world or that there is no reflection between the
two?

I will not get into discussing it any further=)


On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p....
>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>What happened?
>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>bad.  The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs.  But how many of those might
>>have been posted on multiple sites?  How many are for full time
>>employment - which means more than a short time gig.  How many are
>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>The list goes on.  As I said.  Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>--
>>============= =====
>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>Jerry Stuckle
>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>jstuck...@att global.net
>>============= =====
>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.

>

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

>

You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
each has its own source
It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
this degree

>
Not at all.  There is nothing scientific about the sampling.  The entire
"report" is invalid.
>
No, figures don't lie.  But liars can figure.  And 83% of statistics in
the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

>>On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>>>What happened?
>>>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>>>>bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
>>>>>have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
>>>>>employme nt - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
>>>>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>>>The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>>>--
>>>>>========== ========
>>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>jstuck...@ attglobal.net
>>>>>========== ========
>>>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
>>>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>>--
>>>============ ======
>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>jstuck...@at tglobal.net
>>>============ ======
>>You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
>>each has its own source
>>It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
>>this degree

>Not at all. There is nothing scientific about the sampling. The entire
>"report" is invalid.
>>
>No, figures don't lie. But liars can figure. And 83% of statistics in
>the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.
>>

Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot draw a
definite conclusion
You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
that these trends can be true
>
Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
developers.
What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
course in the outside world or that there is no reflection between the
two?
>
I will not get into discussing it any further=)
>
>

(Top posting fixed).

No, all I'm saying is that the figures are meaningless. The trends
could be true or false. But the lack of any scientific basis for the
statistics makes them meaningless.

And all it could mean is one headhunter is fishing for resumes and
posted all kinds of fake jobs on a bunch of sites.

Nothing more, nothing less. There is no way to tell. So no valid
conclusion can be made.

And please don't top post.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

On 25 Mai, 02:48, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>>What happened?
>>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>>>bad.  The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs.  But how many of those might
>>>>have been posted on multiple sites?  How many are for full time
>>>>employmen t - which means more than a short time gig.  How many are
>>>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>>The list goes on.  As I said.  Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>>--
>>>>=========== =======
>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>jstuck...@a ttglobal.net
>>>>=========== =======
>>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
>>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>--
>>============= =====
>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>Jerry Stuckle
>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>jstuck...@att global.net
>>============= =====
>You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
>each has its own source
>It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
>this degree
Not at all.  There is nothing scientific about the sampling.  The entire
"report" is invalid.

>

No, figures don't lie.  But liars can figure.  And 83% of statistics in
the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.

>
 Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot draw a
 definite conclusion
 You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
 that these trends can be true
 >
 Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
 developers.
 What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
 course in the outside world or that there is no reflection between the
 two?
 >
 I will not get into discussing it any further=)
 >
 >
>
(Top posting fixed).
>
No, all I'm saying is that the figures are meaningless.  The trends
could be true or false.  But the lack of any scientific basis for the
statistics makes them meaningless.
>
And all it could mean is one headhunter is fishing for resumes and
posted all kinds of fake jobs on a bunch of sites.
>
Nothing more, nothing less.  There is no way to tell.  So no valid
conclusion can be made.
>
And please don't top post.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

More stats in the UK:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/.net.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/jsp.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/perl.do

http://www.boringguys.com/2008/05/13/php-developer-jobs-are-the-hottest-ever/

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 25 Mai, 02:48, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

>>On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>>>Mikhai l Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>>>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>>>>>What happened?
>>>>>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>>>>>>bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>>>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
>>>>>>>have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
>>>>>>>employme nt - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
>>>>>>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>>>>>The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>======== ==========
>>>>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>>>jstuck.. .@attglobal.net
>>>>>>>======== ==========
>>>>>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>>>>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>>>>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
>>>>>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>>>>--
>>>>>========== ========
>>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>jstuck...@ attglobal.net
>>>>>========== ========
>>>>You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
>>>>each has its own source
>>>>It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
>>>>this degree
>>>Not at all. There is nothing scientific about the sampling. The entire
>>>"report" is invalid.
>>>No, figures don't lie. But liars can figure. And 83% of statistics in
>>>the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.
> Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot draw a
> definite conclusion
> You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
> that these trends can be true
> >
> Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
> developers.
> What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
> course in the outside world or that there is no reflection between the
> two?
> >
> I will not get into discussing it any further=)
> >
> >

>>
>(Top posting fixed).
>>
>No, all I'm saying is that the figures are meaningless. The trends
>could be true or false. But the lack of any scientific basis for the
>statistics makes them meaningless.
>>
>And all it could mean is one headhunter is fishing for resumes and
>posted all kinds of fake jobs on a bunch of sites.
>>
>Nothing more, nothing less. There is no way to tell. So no valid
>conclusion can be made.
>>
>And please don't top post.
>>
>--
>============== ====
>Remove the "x" from my email address
>Jerry Stuckle
>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>jstuck...@attg lobal.net
>============== ====

>
More stats in the UK:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/.net.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/jsp.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/perl.do

>
http://www.boringguys.com/2008/05/13...-hottest-ever/

None of which mean anything more than any of the other stats you've
displayed. For all of the reasons I've listed above.

You seem to be fishing to stats which show PHP is taking off. That's
fine. It may be. But NONE of your "stats" prove it - one way or the
other. All they do is promote the sites in question.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Mikhail Kovalev]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

On 25 Mai, 14:45, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 25 Mai, 02:48, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>>>>which included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>>>>What happened?
>>>>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are goodor
>>>>>>bad.  The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs.  But how many of those might
>>>>>>have been posted on multiple sites?  How many are for full time
>>>>>>employmen t - which means more than a short time gig.  How many are
>>>>>>paying $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>>>>The list goes on.  As I said.  Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>========= =========
>>>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>>jstuck... @attglobal.net
>>>>>>========= =========
>>>>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>>>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>>>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
>>>>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>>>--
>>>>=========== =======
>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>jstuck...@a ttglobal.net
>>>>=========== =======
>>>You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
>>>each has its own source
>>>It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
>>>this degree
>>Not at all.  There is nothing scientific about the sampling.  Theentire
>>"report" is invalid.
>>No, figures don't lie.  But liars can figure.  And 83% of statistics in
>>the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.
 Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot drawa
 definite conclusion
 You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
 that these trends can be true

>

 Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
 developers.
 What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
 course in the outside world or that there is no reflection betweenthe
 two?

>

 I will not get into discussing it any further=)

>

(Top posting fixed).

>

No, all I'm saying is that the figures are meaningless.  The trends
could be true or false.  But the lack of any scientific basis for the
statistics makes them meaningless.

>

And all it could mean is one headhunter is fishing for resumes and
posted all kinds of fake jobs on a bunch of sites.

>

Nothing more, nothing less.  There is no way to tell.  So no valid
conclusion can be made.

>

And please don't top post.

>

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

>

More stats in the UK:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/.net.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/jsp.do

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/perl.do

>

http://www.boringguys.com/2008/05/13...-are-the-hotte...

>
None of which mean anything more than any of the other stats you've
displayed.  For all of the reasons I've listed above.
>
You seem to be fishing to stats which show PHP is taking off.  That's
fine.  It may be.  But NONE of your "stats" prove it - one way or the
other.  All they do is promote the sites in question.
>
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Why did you assume I was out to prove anything?
I've come over some stats and I want to understand...
It is important to me, because I sort of happen to be in the business.

What is this scientific proof claptrap you're pedaling though the
thread?=)

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

On 25 Mai, 14:45, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:

>>On 25 Mai, 02:48, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>On 25 Mai, 00:33, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>Mikhail Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:59, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>>>Mikhai l Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>>>On 24 Mai, 23:25, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
>>>>>>>>>Mikhai l Kovalev wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Was reading an article the other day (now offline for some reason)
>>>>>>>>>>whi ch included some "new lines of code"-statistics, this is different,
>>>>>>>>>>but shows the same trend:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobtren...,+php,+ruby,+p...
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=pe...n%2Cphp%2Cruby
>>>>>>>>>>Wha t happened?
>>>>>>>>>I don't put a lot of faith in such numbers, whether they are good or
>>>>>>>>>bad. The sampling is not scientific - which makes the numbers meaningless.
>>>>>>>>>For instance - it lists the number of jobs. But how many of those might
>>>>>>>>>have been posted on multiple sites? How many are for full time
>>>>>>>>>employ ment - which means more than a short time gig. How many are
>>>>>>>>>payi ng $10/hr, and how many are paying $75/hr?
>>>>>>>>>The list goes on. As I said. Statistics like this are meaningless.
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>====== ============
>>>>>>>>>Remo ve the "x" from my email address
>>>>>>>>>Jerr y Stuckle
>>>>>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>>>>>jstuck ...@attglobal.n et
>>>>>>>>>====== ============
>>>>>>>>These factors are present at any time, at least over the last year,
>>>>>>>>and if this actually was the case their effect would fluctuate in very
>>>>>>>>tight time scheme, not as a progression over several months
>>>>>>>So, they weren't valid a year ago, and they're no more valid now.
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>======== ==========
>>>>>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>>>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>>>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>>>>>jstuck.. .@attglobal.net
>>>>>>>======== ==========
>>>>>>You will notice that the two graphs are somewhat different, because
>>>>>>each has its own source
>>>>>>It is unlikely that they would otherwise coincide at this point to
>>>>>>this degree
>>>>>Not at all. There is nothing scientific about the sampling. The entire
>>>>>"report" is invalid.
>>>>>No, figures don't lie. But liars can figure. And 83% of statistics in
>>>>>the world are completely worthless because they're based on stuff like this.
>>> Sampling not being scientific (?) only implies that we cannot draw a
>>> definite conclusion
>>> You for some reason already seem to have excluded all possibilities
>>> that these trends can be true
>>> Two major internet job sites show an increase in demand for php
>>> developers.
>>> What is more likely, that this trend correlates with the general
>>> course in the outside world or that there is no reflection between the
>>> two?
>>> I will not get into discussing it any further=)
>>>(Top posting fixed).
>>>No, all I'm saying is that the figures are meaningless. The trends
>>>could be true or false. But the lack of any scientific basis for the
>>>statistics makes them meaningless.
>>>And all it could mean is one headhunter is fishing for resumes and
>>>posted all kinds of fake jobs on a bunch of sites.
>>>Nothing more, nothing less. There is no way to tell. So no valid
>>>conclusion can be made.
>>>And please don't top post.
>>>--
>>>============ ======
>>>Remove the "x" from my email address
>>>Jerry Stuckle
>>>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>>>jstuck...@at tglobal.net
>>>============ ======
>>More stats in the UK:
>>http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do
>>http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/.net.do
>>http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/jsp.do
>>http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/perl.do
>>http://www.boringguys.com/2008/05/13...-are-the-hotte...

>None of which mean anything more than any of the other stats you've
>displayed. For all of the reasons I've listed above.
>>
>You seem to be fishing to stats which show PHP is taking off. That's
>fine. It may be. But NONE of your "stats" prove it - one way or the
>other. All they do is promote the sites in question.
>>
>--
>============== ====
>Remove the "x" from my email address
>Jerry Stuckle
>JDS Computer Training Corp.
>jstuck...@attg lobal.net
>============== ====

>
Why did you assume I was out to prove anything?
I've come over some stats and I want to understand...
It is important to me, because I sort of happen to be in the business.
>
What is this scientific proof claptrap you're pedaling though the
thread?=)

There is no understanding stats which are not valid.

I've outlined many of the reasons the stats are invalid in previous
messages. Read and understand them.

And if you need stats for your business, you need to understand how to
collect accurate stats and what conclusions can be made from them. That
is not a PHP question.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Piotr]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>
There is no understanding stats which are not valid.
>
I've outlined many of the reasons the stats are invalid in previous
messages. Read and understand them.
>
And if you need stats for your business, you need to understand how to
collect accurate stats and what conclusions can be made from them. That
is not a PHP question.
>

Well,

there is a way to read such data. Even if each of them is flawed in a
way. If the sample is big enough, then you usually don't need to bother
with specifics, and they tend to stabilize (in populations large enough).

So for big populations, even badly collected data might give correct
result. That is, if you assume standard (symmetric) distribution.

On the other hand, as You (Jerry) said before, it's not that easy to
evaluate meaning of such data.
What was presented one should read as:
"Raise in job offerings on popular job sites for php programmers." (or
something similar).

This does not mean that there is more work to be done, or that the wages
are going up. It also isn't enough to try guessing the cause behind
the grow.

regards
Piotr N

[Lawrence Krubner]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Piotr wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>>
>There is no understanding stats which are not valid.
>>
>I've outlined many of the reasons the stats are invalid in previous
>messages. Read and understand them.
>>
>And if you need stats for your business, you need to understand how to
>collect accurate stats and what conclusions can be made from them.
>That is not a PHP question.
>>

there is a way to read such data. Even if each of them is flawed in a
way. If the sample is big enough, then you usually don't need to bother
with specifics, and they tend to stabilize (in populations large enough).
>
So for big populations, even badly collected data might give correct
result. That is, if you assume standard (symmetric) distribution.
>
On the other hand, as You (Jerry) said before, it's not that easy to
evaluate meaning of such data.
What was presented one should read as:
"Raise in job offerings on popular job sites for php programmers." (or
something similar).
>
This does not mean that there is more work to be done, or that the wages
are going up. It also isn't enough to try guessing the cause behind the
grow.

Are the wages in any way relevant to the language in use? I've a friend
doing Ruby On Rails programming for $120 an hour (for a defense
contractor). I've a bunch of friends making anything from $40 and hour
to $75 an hour doing PHP programming, in the American South. Up in New
York City, of course, the wages are higher. I imagine you can find
similar wages for many other languages. Except for certain specialties
(Oracle programming, for instance) I'm not sure the language would be
the determining factor regarding the wage.

-- lawrence krubner

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: Sudden increase in php-jobs

Lawrence Krubner wrote:

Piotr wrote:

>Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>>>
>>There is no understanding stats which are not valid.
>>>
>>I've outlined many of the reasons the stats are invalid in previous
>>messages. Read and understand them.
>>>
>>And if you need stats for your business, you need to understand how
>>to collect accurate stats and what conclusions can be made from
>>them. That is not a PHP question.
>>>

>there is a way to read such data. Even if each of them is flawed in a
>way. If the sample is big enough, then you usually don't need to
>bother with specifics, and they tend to stabilize (in populations
>large enough).
>>
>So for big populations, even badly collected data might give correct
>result. That is, if you assume standard (symmetric) distribution.
>>
>On the other hand, as You (Jerry) said before, it's not that easy to
>evaluate meaning of such data.
>What was presented one should read as:
>"Raise in job offerings on popular job sites for php programmers." (or
>something similar).
>>
>This does not mean that there is more work to be done, or that the
>wages are going up. It also isn't enough to try guessing the cause
>behind the grow.

>
>
Are the wages in any way relevant to the language in use? I've a friend
doing Ruby On Rails programming for $120 an hour (for a defense
contractor). I've a bunch of friends making anything from $40 and hour
to $75 an hour doing PHP programming, in the American South. Up in New
York City, of course, the wages are higher. I imagine you can find
similar wages for many other languages. Except for certain specialties
(Oracle programming, for instance) I'm not sure the language would be
the determining factor regarding the wage.
>
-- lawrence krubner
>
>
>

But the language is a defining factor in the wages being paid. It's the
law of supply and demand. The higher the supply of available
programmers for a language to the demand for those programmers, the
lower the wages. And vice versa.

But defense contractors are NOT a good comparison of salaries. They
have additional requirements (like a security clearance) which severely
limits the number of qualified programmers. Therefore they typically
pay higher wages.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===