what skills go well with PHP?

[Eakin, W]

Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
more with opinion.

As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
(Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.

Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
PHP/MySQL?
I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
one language at a time.

So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
one language at a time?

Thanks.

[CJ Llewellyn]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

"Eakin, W" <dante@euroweb. com> wrote in message
news:b3433edc.0 407230046.719ff 1c6@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
> more with opinion.
>
> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?
> I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
> of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
> server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
> because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
> one language at a time.
>
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?[/color]

Try Java. It's all very well using open source technology but if a paid job
is what you are after then you need skills in what commercial programs and
systems are written in.

[Erwin Moller]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

Eakin, W wrote:

Hi,
[color=blue]
> Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
> more with opinion.[/color]

I'll give you mine. :-)
[color=blue]
>
> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?
> I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
> of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
> server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
> because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
> one language at a time.
>
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?[/color]

I agree with you: Learn 1 language at a time.

I think PHP is a very powerfull serverside language.
The best I know of for basic stuff, and I tried a few.
So if you want to stay serverside: deepen your knowledge of PHP.
Have a look at PEAR-packages too.
Browse the Zend and PHP websites, lots of usefull stuff there.

You say you already know HTML. Good.
You should probably also learn Javascript at least to a level you can easily
create dynamically dropdownmenus, checkboxes, radiogroups, etc with PHP,
and accept the FORM-data, do some typechecking, insert into DB, etc.
(Maybe you mastered that already.)

Maybe you should learn XML too, that never hurts nowadays.

And after that?
I would say dive into Java.
Java is everywhere: clientside, serverside, and in your cellphone.
Learn about applets, that is always a good start.
Later on you can study J2EE: servlets/JSP.
Java is more powerfull serverside than PHP, but is also a bigger headage to
master. It is not that Java is counterintuitiv e, but you have to learn a
lot before saying 'hello world' with JSP, and actually know what is going
on.
Or maybe .net?
Personally I think .net stinks because the company that owns it stinks. But
that decision is up to you of course.
Both advanched .net and advanched J2EE skills will get you work.
Whatever you decide (.net or J2EE), be sure you plan at least a few months
studytime/practicetime. They both really need your attention.

If you want to start your company, you'll need more than technical skills
alone: you'll need a network with people that will hire you, or place
orders. You'll need a lot of social skills and some administrative skills
for that. Many technical guys forget that part. :-)

Anyway: Good luck!

Regards,
Erwin Moller
[color=blue]
>
> Thanks.[/color]

[Colin McKinnon]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

Erwin Moller wrote:
[color=blue]
> Eakin, W wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
>> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
>> one language at a time?[/color]
>
> I agree with you: Learn 1 language at a time.
>[/color]

Certainly learn 1 language at a time, but I see far too many people who can
write code in a single language, but do not know how to program. Using
different languages (and different apporaches to programming e.g.
assembly,4GLs, non-procedural,OOP. ..) teaches a lot about the latter.

Java certainly seems to be in demand, but if you're looking for something to
complement PHP, then (browser-side) javascript seems the obvious candidate
to me. Once you get beyond the incompatabiliti es of different browsers it's
quite an elegant language. Unfortunately most of the tutorials / examples
I've seen try to write procedural code with it - which is not really where
it shines. (anybody any suggestions or are we getting too OT).

HTH & good luck

C.

[Pjotr Wedersteers]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

Eakin, W wrote:[color=blue]
> Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
> more with opinion.
>
> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?
> I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
> of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
> server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
> because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
> one language at a time.
>
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?
>
> Thanks.[/color]

I know in my job we mainly looked at non-programming-related skills, since
most if not all applicants have at least some related technical experience.
A language extra is not so hard to learn, we could easily send someone on a
training course, and no language is forever. (as a bonus for the employer,
sending people to training courses tends to strengthen the bond between
employer-employee)But interpersonal skills, and esp. communicative and
business skills are hard to come by. Especially with IT people who have the
stigma of being nerd-like, noncommunicativ e or even anti-social. Ridiculous
of course, but it's definitely there. My marketing and communications
experience made much more impact than any of the technical skills I had. If
you have some under your belt, you should be ok. Aim to stand out in the
presentation. A friend of mine has created a multilmedia resume cd he sends
to companies he'd like to do a project for. That always makes heads turn.

Of course I am talking about the Dutch market, not sure whether all this is
applicable to your home country. But a tiny voice inside says people are
very much the same all over the world...

HTH
Pjotr

[Brian Scott O'keefe]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

"Pjotr Wedersteers" <x33159@westert erp.com> wrote in message news:<4100fa3d$ 0$36861$e4fe514 c@news.xs4all.n l>...[color=blue]
> Eakin, W wrote:
> Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
> more with opinion.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?[/color]

I have the same questions and situation.
My opinion is that it all depends on what you are searching a job for.
I mean if you just want to make gobs of money and who cares whether
you enjoy it? You would go one direction... If you are looking for a
job that you thoroughly enjoy? List your skills and maybe speak with a
job counselor. Most Social Services offer something like this, if you
are in school? Most school counselors can help you there as well.

For me?
I decided I wanted to find clients instead of a job, since most IT
related jobs are no reliable right now... what with IT positions going
to India hard-core right now.

So, I thought that if I wanted to offer something to clients, I could
offer a definite economic savings since I use only open source
languages... this means they don't have to pay for specialized
software packages to get their stuff done.

I know HTML, XHTML, CSS, XML, XSL, DTD, XSLT, Javascript, VBScript,
and finally PHP. This way, I can recreate almost ANYTHING a client
needs except for artwork, and I am STILL looking for a local artist
who would take small jobs here and there for cash.

If a J.O.B. is what you are looking for? A good portfolio helps as
well. THe communication skills and such are definitely a HUGE plus. As
the person doing the hiring for past jobs, I remember NOT selecting
people because of poor intercommunicat ion skills. I would rather work
with someone I had to teach, than a know-it-all who couldn't work with
a team.

Hope that helps...

[rush]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

"Eakin, W" <dante@euroweb. com> wrote in message
news:b3433edc.0 407230046.719ff 1c6@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?[/color]

javascript. other interesting path might be xml related things like xslt,
soap, schema.

rush
--

http://www.templatetamer.com/

[Chung Leong]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

"Eakin, W" <dante@euroweb. com> wrote in message
news:b3433edc.0 407230046.719ff 1c6@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?[/color]

I was in the hiring process recently and I can tell you that I didn't read
teh skills section of the resume submitted. Usually I just jump straight to
the work experience section. Basically, what a candidate claims s/he knows
is relevant. What they've done with the knowledge is what counts.

Remeber, the world + dog are going to have Java, XML, and other other such
buzzwords in their resumes. To stand out, you need something more.
Personally I want to hear from the candidate that s/he knows something about
the development process, things like requirment gathering, feasability
studies, quality assurance and so forth. That you've documented the API used
and written test cases in your last project means far more than, say,
knowlege of XSLT.

Having said that, there are some technolgies that are indispensible.
Javascript, for example. Even if the project in queston isn't JS heavy, I
would want someone who understandly clearly the distinction between
server-sode and client-side scripting. Knowledge of CSS is also important.

[Ian.H]

[semi OT] Re: what skills go well with PHP?

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:12:36 -0400, Chung Leong wrote:

[ snip ]

[color=blue]
> I was in the hiring process recently and I can tell you that I didn't read
> teh skills section of the resume submitted. Usually I just jump straight to
> the work experience section. Basically, what a candidate claims s/he knows
> is relevant. What they've done with the knowledge is what counts.[/color]


Wish there was more people like you Chung =)

My initial "trade" was mechanic.. and while I've never had any formal
training, I'd "worked on / with" cars since I could walk and was lucky
when I left school to get into a garage owned by a friend. The real life
experience made it easier to get into a couple of other places (word of
mouth helped too). Shortly after joining one garage (bearing in mind I had
zero paperwork) we had another kid join who had all the papers, degrees,
bells n whistles yet within 2 weeks of being there, managed to put in a
set of brake pads back to front (not left / right, ie: metal to disc, pad
to piston) and forgot to refil the oil after doing a service on another
car. IMO, qualifications ain't worth the paper they're written on =)




Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H
digiServ Network
London, UK

http://digiserv.net/

[Jochen Daum]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

Hi,

On 23 Jul 2004 01:46:54 -0700, dante@euroweb.c om (Eakin, W) wrote:
[color=blue]
>Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
>more with opinion.
>
>As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
>being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
>(Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
>Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
>PHP/MySQL?
>I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
>of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
>server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
>because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
>one language at a time.
>
>So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
>PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
>one language at a time?[/color]

If you don't want to go down the web designer/programmer route I think
its good to get more into core HTTP, SMTP, DNS.

General Requirement analysis skill and team environment skills are
also good, eg. templating systems, CVS and documentation skills.

HTH, Jochen[color=blue]
>
>Thanks.[/color]

--
Jochen Daum - Cabletalk Group Ltd.
PHP DB Edit Toolkit -- PHP scripts for building
database editing interfaces.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpdbedittk/

[clippy the paperclip]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

Eakin, W wrote:
[color=blue]
> Unlike a coding question, which may have a definite answer, this deals
> more with opinion.
>
> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?
> I already have a firm knowledge of html, css, and the web layout side
> of things. I also have mod_python and mod_perl installed on my apache
> server running at home, but I haven't tried to get into them yet,
> because I've read that it's NOT advisable to try and learn more than
> one language at a time.
>
> So the question to anyone reading this is, what skills go well with
> PHP in the job word, and is it recommended to try and learn more than
> one language at a time?
>
> Thanks.[/color]

Linux.
Apache (especially url rewriting - very useful...)
Bash scripting.

[clippy the paperclip]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

CJ Llewellyn wrote:[color=blue]
> Try Java. It's all very well using open source technology but if a paid
> job is what you are after then you need skills in what commercial programs
> and systems are written in.[/color]

oh yeah - rrrright.

and Yahoo isn't a "commercial " company.... ????

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963937.html?tag=lh

[Hello World]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of[color=blue]
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?[/color]

General OOP programming (from another similar language such as perl or
asp) or even from a 'different' type programming (C++, Pascal Object
or Java) imho (among other things).

Personally, i learnt perl before php (i learnt others before perl, but
that was my first server-side language), however when i learnt php, it
"overwrote" on the brain disk space perl was stored on, therefore i
can't understand what i wrote in perl at the time, lol. However it
helped me learning php better.

HTML/javascript may help too, for understanding the differences
between server-side and client-side too.

[Nikolai Chuvakhin]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

dante@euroweb.c om (Eakin, W) wrote in message
news:<b3433edc. 0407230046.719f f1c6@posting.go ogle.com>...[color=blue]
>
> As I continue my studies of PHP and MySQL, and get to the point of
> being able to use them in a work environment, I look at the job sites
> (Monster, Dice), and no-one, asks for just one skill.
>
> Therefor, what other skills will complement best my knowledge of
> PHP/MySQL?[/color]

Okay, here are my two cents... First of all, understand that the
days when employers were willing to pay a premium for front-end
development skills are by and large over. So, in my opinion, the
question must be asked differently: what are the areas outside
"pure" Web development that you can branch into with a good
knowledge of Web development in general and PHP/MySQL in particular?

One such area, it seems, is development and deployment of Web front
ends for popular applications. Examples range from WebMathematica
to Act! for Web. Even more examples can be found in the financial
sector, where intermediaries and research providers begin to make
their proprietary models available to their institutional clientele
via the Web. Examples are numerous and include Deutsche Bank
Convertibles and Moody's KMV CreditEdge, to name a few.

What skills may be needed? You guess is as good as mine.
Understanding applications' internal data architecture and/or
APIs would be crucial. Thorough understanding of XML and/or
Web services can be required in some cases, but not others.
Good grasp of basic statistics could also help. For example,
Deutsche Bank Convertibles has this little graph that shows the
user relative prices of a convertible bond and its underlying stock.
The user can choose to plot linear or quadratic regression through
those points and see the results.

Cheers,
NC

[Hello World]

Re: what skills go well with PHP?

> Thorough understanding of XML and/or Web services

About XML, here's a previous thread about it on c.l.php:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=35b5a05e.0404270451.5fe0d938%40posting.google.com

if it can be any use.