GPL and issues with PHP applications

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.

So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Manuel Lemos]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Hello,

On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:[color=blue]
> I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
> that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
> the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
>
> So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
> class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
> applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
> experiences? TIA.[/color]

That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.


--

Regards,
Manuel Lemos

PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP
http://www.phpclasses.org/

PHP Reviews - Reviews of PHP books and other products
http://www.phpclasses.org/reviews/

Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator

http://www.meta-language.net/metastorage.html

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Manuel Lemos <mlemos@acm.org > wrote in message news:<2lo7llFf2 8lbU2@uni-berlin.de>...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:[color=green]
> > I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
> > that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
> > the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
> >
> > So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> > business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
> > class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
> > applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
> > experiences? TIA.[/color]
>
> That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
> only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
> still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
> open the source of your commercial application.
>[/color]

Thanks indeed, for your comments. I really wonder what other PHP
saints would do in those situations.

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Aidan]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Look into the socket functions of PHP and create some POP/IMAP/SMTP
object with them... thats what I'd do...


R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
[color=blue]
>Manuel Lemos <mlemos@acm.org > wrote in message news:<2lo7llFf2 8lbU2@uni-berlin.de>...
>
>[color=green]
>>Hello,
>>
>>On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
>>>that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
>>>the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
>>>
>>> So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
>>>business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
>>>class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
>>>applications . So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
>>>experience s? TIA.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
>>only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
>>still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
>>open the source of your commercial application.
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Thanks indeed, for your comments. I really wonder what other PHP
>saints would do in those situations.
>
>
>[/color]

[CJ Llewellyn]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"Manuel Lemos" <mlemos@acm.org > wrote in message
news:2lo7llFf28 lbU2@uni-berlin.de...[color=blue]
> Hello,
>
> On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:[color=green]
> > I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
> > that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
> > the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
> >
> > So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> > business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
> > class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
> > applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
> > experiences? TIA.[/color]
>
> That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
> only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
> still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
> open the source of your commercial application.[/color]

No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot change
the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the changes
as GPL.

Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have written,
but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own code.

As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a problem.

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"CJ Llewellyn" <satest@tmslife line.com> wrote in message news:<cdc72d$ug 7$1@slavica.ukp ost.com>...[color=blue]
> "Manuel Lemos" <mlemos@acm.org > wrote in message
> news:2lo7llFf28 lbU2@uni-berlin.de...[color=green]
> > Hello,
> >
> > On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:[color=darkred]
> > > I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
> > > that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
> > > the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
> > >
> > > So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> > > business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
> > > class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
> > > applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
> > > experiences? TIA.[/color]
> >
> > That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
> > only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
> > still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
> > open the source of your commercial application.[/color]
>
> No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot change
> the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the changes
> as GPL.
>
> Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have written,
> but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own code.
>
> As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
> different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a problem.[/color]

This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Aidan <nospam.aidan@l inknet.com.au> wrote in message news:<newscache $chqz0i$mg4$1@t itan.linknet.co m.au>...[color=blue]
> Look into the socket functions of PHP and create some POP/IMAP/SMTP
> object with them... thats what I'd do...[/color]

True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
changing/affecting our license model?

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[CJ Llewellyn]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng4rrjanbiah@r ediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:abc4d8b8.0 407182212.665ed cb4@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> "CJ Llewellyn" <satest@tmslife line.com> wrote in message[/color]
news:<cdc72d$ug 7$1@slavica.ukp ost.com>...[color=blue][color=green]
> > "Manuel Lemos" <mlemos@acm.org > wrote in message
> > news:2lo7llFf28 lbU2@uni-berlin.de...[color=darkred]
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
> > > > I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles[/color][/color][/color]
suggest[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we[/color][/color][/color]
add,[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
> > > >
> > > > So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> > > > business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add[/color][/color][/color]
PHPMailer[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > class <http://phpmailer.sourc eforge.net/>, with any of your[/color][/color][/color]
commercial[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such[/color][/color][/color]
personal[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> > > > experiences? TIA.
> > >
> > > That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
> > > only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
> > > still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
> > > open the source of your commercial application.[/color]
> >
> > No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot[/color][/color]
change[color=blue][color=green]
> > the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the[/color][/color]
changes[color=blue][color=green]
> > as GPL.
> >
> > Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have[/color][/color]
written,[color=blue][color=green]
> > but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own[/color][/color]
code.[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
> > different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a[/color][/color]
problem.[color=blue]
>
> This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
> that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
> any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
> views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA[/color]

Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they refer
to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
private copyright.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLInProprietarySystem

States

"However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure
that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they
are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
program."

i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.

[Marian Heddesheimer]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

On 18 Jul 2004 23:13:42 -0700, ng4rrjanbiah@re diffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote:
[color=blue]
> True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
>use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
>changing/affecting our license model?[/color]

That's correct, you can't use the code without affecting your licencse
if it's not already GPL

Regards

Marian


--
Tipps und Tricks zu PHP, Coaching und Projektbetreuun g

http://www.heddesheimer.de/coaching/

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"CJ Llewellyn" <satest@tmslife line.com> wrote in message news:<cdftkh$m4 g$1@slavica.ukp ost.com>...
<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
> > that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
> > any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
> > views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA[/color]
>
> Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they refer
> to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
> private copyright.
>
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq....prietarySystem
>
> States
>
> "However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
> alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure
> that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they
> are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
> program."
>
> i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.[/color]

But, I couldn't understand how can we use it without mixing both
the codes. Also the other paragraphs suggest that the codes cannot be
mixed.

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Marian Heddesheimer <180704.8.nolin k@spamgourmet.c om> wrote in message news:<ahumf0tka adqn6pco7qq19v8 ivd8ll9ui4@4ax. com>...[color=blue]
> On 18 Jul 2004 23:13:42 -0700, ng4rrjanbiah@re diffmail.com (R. Rajesh
> Jeba Anbiah) wrote:
>[color=green]
> > True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
> >use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
> >changing/affecting our license model?[/color]
>
> That's correct, you can't use the code without affecting your licencse
> if it's not already GPL[/color]

CJ Llewellyn in other thread suggests that we can use it by
"distanting " the codes. I couldn't understand how that can be done in
PHP.

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[CJ Llewellyn]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng4rrjanbiah@r ediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:abc4d8b8.0 407190533.55bd3 fd0@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> "CJ Llewellyn" <satest@tmslife line.com> wrote in message[/color]
news:<cdftkh$m4 g$1@slavica.ukp ost.com>...[color=blue]
> <snip>[color=green][color=darkred]
> > >
> > > This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
> > > that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
> > > any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
> > > views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA[/color]
> >
> > Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they[/color][/color]
refer[color=blue][color=green]
> > to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
> > private copyright.
> >
> > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq....prietarySystem
> >
> > States
> >
> > "However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
> > alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make[/color][/color]
sure[color=blue][color=green]
> > that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that[/color][/color]
they[color=blue][color=green]
> > are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
> > program."
> >
> > i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.[/color]
>
> But, I couldn't understand how can we use it without mixing both
> the codes. Also the other paragraphs suggest that the codes cannot be
> mixed.[/color]

I would view this as being ok, GNU.org would probably disagree.

include('gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');
$oSec = new cSomebodyElsesC ode();


Where as this would not.

include('gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');
class cMyDerivitiveOf extends cSomebodyElsesC ode {

}


From the above FAQs, you are safe with

exec('/usr/bin/php gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');

A lot will depend on the actual program itself. If your program is dependent
on GPL code to function, such as adodb as a data abstraction layer then, you
are not going to get away with using anything other than a compatible
licence.

OTH, if you are using a library to say develop a spam-a-friend feature for a
CMS then you are not dependent on the mail library being present for the
program to function.

[Marian Heddesheimer]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

On 19 Jul 2004 06:34:38 -0700, ng4rrjanbiah@re diffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote:
[color=blue]
> CJ Llewellyn in other thread suggests that we can use it by
>"distanting " the codes. I couldn't understand how that can be done in
>PHP.[/color]

that's an exercise for the advocates ;-)

I am not a lawyer and I think they may come to different conclusions.
But it may be hard to explain a judge the concept of coding.

I personally would not rely on any of the answers given. You would be
better off, asking your lawyer before you decide for any license
model.

From the technical point (and in my opinion) there ist no such thing
as "distancing " code. How would you measure this "distance"? If you
use GPL software (i.e. your products is build upon or relies on
another piece of GPL software) your product is also GPL.

If you have code that is completely standalone (i.e. it can run
completely without the GPL code), than you can license it as you like.
In this case users of your product can combine your product with other
GPL products without problems.

For example: A tool that can be used as an add-on for Online-Shops. If
it is standalone and maybe works with several different
Shop-Applications, you may be free to use your own license. If it
works only with osCommerce, which is GPL, your tool is also GPL.

Regards

Marian


--
Tipps und Tricks zu PHP, Coaching und Projektbetreuun g

http://www.heddesheimer.de/coaching/

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

Marian Heddesheimer <180704.8.nolin k@spamgourmet.c om> wrote in message news:<ciunf0dsk k9qokfhcqm0hvbu vseal28t1s@4ax. com>...
<snip>[color=blue]
> If you have code that is completely standalone (i.e. it can run
> completely without the GPL code), than you can license it as you like.
> In this case users of your product can combine your product with other
> GPL products without problems.
>
> For example: A tool that can be used as an add-on for Online-Shops. If
> it is standalone and maybe works with several different
> Shop-Applications, you may be free to use your own license. If it
> works only with osCommerce, which is GPL, your tool is also GPL.
>[/color]
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I understand the issues with GPL. Thanks.

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: GPL and issues with PHP applications

"CJ Llewellyn" <satest@tmslife line.com> wrote in message news:<cdgqa7$st 5$1@slavica.ukp ost.com>...
<snip>[color=blue]
> I would view this as being ok, GNU.org would probably disagree.
>
> include('gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');
> $oSec = new cSomebodyElsesC ode();
>
>
> Where as this would not.
>
> include('gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');
> class cMyDerivitiveOf extends cSomebodyElsesC ode {
>
> }
>
>
> From the above FAQs, you are safe with
>
> exec('/usr/bin/php gpl/somebody.elses. code.php');
>
> A lot will depend on the actual program itself. If your program is dependent
> on GPL code to function, such as adodb as a data abstraction layer then, you
> are not going to get away with using anything other than a compatible
> licence.
>
> OTH, if you are using a library to say develop a spam-a-friend feature for a
> CMS then you are not dependent on the mail library being present for the
> program to function.[/color]

This is bit interesting.. But IMHO, GPL is really messy:(

--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com