Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 10:35 AM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Susan Baker wrote:[color=blue]
> Note: This is different from previous post.
>
> I am coming from a C/C++ background. I have a frontend (written in C#),
> my backend was originally meant to be a J2EE application with
> PostGreSQL. I am worried about support/maintenance issues going forward
> since I no little J2EE (have some Java) - but am no longer able to rely
> on the J2EE developer going forward.
>
> I am now seriously considering using WAMP, but I am not yet terribly
> convinced about inter-op issues between C# and PHP.
>
> I also remain a bit sceptical about a possible lack of infrastructure
> previously provided by the J2EE app server - i.e. scalability,
> robustness, role based security etc. Are there any hard technical
> documents I can refer to allay (at least) some of these fears?
>
> I cannot seem to find any documentation referring to my type of setup -
> i.e. a C# frontend and issuing requests (e.g. logon for user
> authorization/verification etc). A search on Google is not bringing up
> much. Any recommendation on books that will be helpful in instructing
> how to build such a system (as well as mentioning any potential
> pitfalls), will be very much appreciated.
>
> MTIA
>[/color]

Hello ?!. Anybody reading this ?

**Horst TellioÄŸlu** · Dec 19 '05, 12:15 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Susan Baker wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hello ?!. Anybody reading this ?[/color]

Hi there. Yes I read your post ;)

There is one thing I did not understand in your description: what do you
mean by combining a C# frontend with a PHP or Java based backend? Could
you elaborate? Do you mean that both the frontend and backend are
accessing the same datebase? Or that you want to build a PHP-based web
application in addition to a fat/smart C# client?

Regards,
Horst

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 12:35 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Horst Telliog(lu wrote:
[color=blue]
> Susan Baker wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Hello ?!. Anybody reading this ?[/color]
>
>
> Hi there. Yes I read your post ;)
>
> There is one thing I did not understand in your description: what do you
> mean by combining a C# frontend with a PHP or Java based backend? Could
> you elaborate? Do you mean that both the frontend and backend are
> accessing the same datebase? Or that you want to build a PHP-based web
> application in addition to a fat/smart C# client?
>
>
> Regards,
> Horst
>[/color]

Hi Horst,

Thanks for replying. My (fat) frontend is written in C#. The
architecture is N-tier, with quite a fat (smart) frontend implemented
mostly in C#.

These are the functional requirements of the backend:

1). Handle request to logon from the frontend (requires backend to
authorize/verify user credentials)
2). Retrieve clientdata from backend database, encrypt this data and
return to front end (client)
3). Implement chatroom and forum server services for use by the frontend
(client)
4). Handle database requests (mostly running stored procedures) and
return results to the frontend (client).

This is what I need to do, and any help, pointers or book suggestions
will be very useful.

As an aside, I'm also considering moving from PostgreSQL to MySQL - but
Stored Procedures, Triggers and Views are only available in MySQL v 5.*.
How widespread is MySQL v 5.X implementations by ISPs is it really
production ready yet?

Look forward to your response.

**Horst TellioÄŸlu** · Dec 19 '05, 12:55 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Susan Baker wrote:
[color=blue]
> These are the functional requirements of the backend:
>
> 1). Handle request to logon from the frontend (requires backend to
> authorize/verify user credentials)
> 2). Retrieve clientdata from backend database, encrypt this data and
> return to front end (client)
> 3). Implement chatroom and forum server services for use by the frontend
> (client)
> 4). Handle database requests (mostly running stored procedures) and
> return results to the frontend (client).[/color]

What protocol is used for the fontend/backend communication? SOAP?
[color=blue]
> This is what I need to do, and any help, pointers or book suggestions
> will be very useful.[/color]

Some books I found helpful are

"Better, Faster, Lighter Java" by Bruce Tate, ISBN: 0596006764
"Beyond Java" by Bruce Tate, ISBN: 0596100949
"Upgrading to PHP5" by Adam Trachtenberg, ISBN 0596006365
"PHP 5 Objects, Patterns, and Practice" by Matt Zandstra, ISBN: 1590593804
"Advanced PHP Programming" by George Schlossnagle, ISBN: B0009EK8A4

I am not sure if this is anywhere near what you are looking for ;)

I really like Java for my bigger projects with Hibernate as ORM-tool. I am
also very satisfied with PHP5. The only thing I really miss with PHP5 is a
good debugger which slows down development considerably.
[color=blue]
> As an aside, I'm also considering moving from PostgreSQL to MySQL - but
> Stored Procedures, Triggers and Views are only available in MySQL v 5.*.
> How widespread is MySQL v 5.X implementations by ISPs is it really
> production ready yet?[/color]

Soory but I have no idea. The only thing I can say is that I used MySQL
versions 3.x and 4.x for years without any problem :)

Regards,
Horst

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 01:15 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Horst Telliog(lu wrote:
[color=blue]
> Susan Baker wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>These are the functional requirements of the backend:
>>
>>1). Handle request to logon from the frontend (requires backend to
>>authorize/verify user credentials)
>>2). Retrieve clientdata from backend database, encrypt this data and
>>return to front end (client)
>>3). Implement chatroom and forum server services for use by the frontend
>>(client)
>>4). Handle database requests (mostly running stored procedures) and
>>return results to the frontend (client).[/color]
>
>
> What protocol is used for the fontend/backend communication? SOAP?[/color]

I don't know yet, I'm still finding out about PHP and what its capable
of doing. I would prefer not to use SOAP though because its too heavy/slow.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>This is what I need to do, and any help, pointers or book suggestions
>>will be very useful.[/color]
>
>
> Some books I found helpful are
>
> "Better, Faster, Lighter Java" by Bruce Tate, ISBN: 0596006764
> "Beyond Java" by Bruce Tate, ISBN: 0596100949
> "Upgrading to PHP5" by Adam Trachtenberg, ISBN 0596006365
> "PHP 5 Objects, Patterns, and Practice" by Matt Zandstra, ISBN: 1590593804
> "Advanced PHP Programming" by George Schlossnagle, ISBN: B0009EK8A4
>
> I am not sure if this is anywhere near what you are looking for ;)[/color]

Not really, ;-) - but thanks any way !
[color=blue]
>
> I really like Java for my bigger projects with Hibernate as ORM-tool. I am
> also very satisfied with PHP5. The only thing I really miss with PHP5 is a
> good debugger which slows down development considerably.
>[/color]
I had to move away from Java/J2EE because of support/maintainance
issues, for now I have scaled down the server side requirements so that
I can use PHP - however, it is still not clear to me, how o use a C#
frontend to communicate with PHP objects at the server side - this is
what I was trying to find out in my OP.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>As an aside, I'm also considering moving from PostgreSQL to MySQL - but
>>Stored Procedures, Triggers and Views are only available in MySQL v 5.*.
>>How widespread is MySQL v 5.X implementations by ISPs is it really
>>production ready yet?[/color]
>
>
> Soory but I have no idea. The only thing I can say is that I used MySQL
> versions 3.x and 4.x for years without any problem :)
>
>
> Regards,
> Horst
>[/color]

**CJ Llewellyn** · Dec 19 '05, 02:05 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:02:18 +0000, Susan Baker wrote:
-snip-[color=blue][color=green]
>> I really like Java for my bigger projects with Hibernate as ORM-tool.
>> I am also very satisfied with PHP5. The only thing I really miss with
>> PHP5 is a good debugger which slows down development considerably.
>>[/color]
> I had to move away from Java/J2EE because of support/maintainance
> issues, for now I have scaled down the server side requirements so that
> I can use PHP - however, it is still not clear to me, how o use a C#
> frontend to communicate with PHP objects at the server side - this is
> what I was trying to find out in my OP.[/color]

The same way you'd use C#, Java, Python, Perl or gazzillions of other
programming languages as middle tier layers. Web Services + SOAP

php has a whole suite of libraries already written for this type of
interoperation.

SOAP

http://pear.php.net/package/SOAP

However as you are aleady using .net at the client end, why not write the
backend in C#?

**Chung Leong** · Dec 19 '05, 03:05 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Susan Baker wrote:[color=blue]
> Thanks for replying. My (fat) frontend is written in C#. The
> architecture is N-tier, with quite a fat (smart) frontend implemented
> mostly in C#.[/color]

It'd be more helpful if you can be more specific. Words like
"front-end" and "back-end" don't really tell us much. Is your front-end
program a Windows application written in C#, or is an ASP.NET web
application?
[color=blue]
> These are the functional requirements of the backend:
>
> 1). Handle request to logon from the frontend (requires backend to
> authorize/verify user credentials)
> 2). Retrieve clientdata from backend database, encrypt this data and
> return to front end (client)
> 3). Implement chatroom and forum server services for use by the frontend
> (client)
> 4). Handle database requests (mostly running stored procedures) and
> return results to the frontend (client).[/color]

..Net can readily handle all of these tasks. I don't really see the
logic in trying to mate it with a different technology.

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 03:45 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Chung Leong wrote:
[color=blue]
> Susan Baker wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Thanks for replying. My (fat) frontend is written in C#. The
>>architectur e is N-tier, with quite a fat (smart) frontend implemented
>>mostly in C#.[/color]
>
>
> It'd be more helpful if you can be more specific. Words like
> "front-end" and "back-end" don't really tell us much. Is your front-end
> program a Windows application written in C#, or is an ASP.NET web
> application?
>
>[/color]
Front end => Desktop GUI application
Written in C# (GUI and presentation logic)
This a standard exe written using WinForms

Backend
Functonal requirements specified below - what more do you need ?[color=blue][color=green]
>>These are the functional requirements of the backend:
>>
>>1). Handle request to logon from the frontend (requires backend to
>>authorize/verify user credentials)
>>2). Retrieve clientdata from backend database, encrypt this data and
>>return to front end (client)
>>3). Implement chatroom and forum server services for use by the frontend
>>(client)
>>4). Handle database requests (mostly running stored procedures) and
>>return results to the frontend (client).[/color]
>
>
> .Net can readily handle all of these tasks. I don't really see the
> logic in trying to mate it with a different technology.
>[/color]

I know, but I don't want to get tied to proprietary technologies (i.e.
Microsoft). I was forced to switch the GUI (client application) from
SWING to C#, because Java simply could not "get its act together" in
terms of sheer performance on the desktop. I am moving from a J2EE
backend implementation because I cant maintain/support it personally
going forward - but I do not want to have to use IIS/ SQL Server and pay
$'000s in subscription fees - I am a small company and I simply cannot
afford that.

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 03:55 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

CJ Llewellyn wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:02:18 +0000, Susan Baker wrote:
> -snip-
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>I really like Java for my bigger projects with Hibernate as ORM-tool.
>>>I am also very satisfied with PHP5. The only thing I really miss with
>>>PHP5 is a good debugger which slows down development considerably.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>I had to move away from Java/J2EE because of support/maintainance
>>issues, for now I have scaled down the server side requirements so that
>>I can use PHP - however, it is still not clear to me, how o use a C#
>>frontend to communicate with PHP objects at the server side - this is
>>what I was trying to find out in my OP.[/color]
>
>
> The same way you'd use C#, Java, Python, Perl or gazzillions of other
> programming languages as middle tier layers. Web Services + SOAP
>
> php has a whole suite of libraries already written for this type of
> interoperation.
>
> http://pear.php.net/package/SOAP
>
> However as you are aleady using .net at the client end, why not write the
> backend in C#?
>[/color]
SOAP is too heavy (and thus WDSL/web services goes out the window too),
as I mentioned in a previous post. I want to use sockets (I was
expecting someone to suggest using HttpRequest class - or whatever) ...

It seems no one is even aware that this is possible...

**CJ Llewellyn** · Dec 19 '05, 05:05 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:43:26 +0000, Susan Baker wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> CJ Llewellyn wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:02:18 +0000, Susan Baker wrote: -snip-
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>I really like Java for my bigger projects with Hibernate as ORM-tool. I
>>>>am also very satisfied with PHP5. The only thing I really miss with
>>>>PHP5 is a good debugger which slows down development considerably.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I had to move away from Java/J2EE because of support/maintainance
>>>issues, for now I have scaled down the server side requirements so that
>>>I can use PHP - however, it is still not clear to me, how o use a C#
>>>frontend to communicate with PHP objects at the server side - this is
>>>what I was trying to find out in my OP.[/color]
>>
>>
>> The same way you'd use C#, Java, Python, Perl or gazzillions of other
>> programming languages as middle tier layers. Web Services + SOAP
>>
>> php has a whole suite of libraries already written for this type of
>> interoperation.
>>
>> http://pear.php.net/package/SOAP
>>
>> However as you are aleady using .net at the client end, why not write
>> the backend in C#?
>>[/color]
> SOAP is too heavy (and thus WDSL/web services goes out the window too), as
> I mentioned in a previous post. I want to use sockets (I was expecting
> someone to suggest using HttpRequest class - or whatever) ...[/color]

Ask yourself what the advantage of trying to reinvent the wheel is? All
you'll achive is a greater understanding why standardised protocols are a
good thing(tm).

You can of cause use .net's http client and return XML records very much
the same way that RSS feeds/readers work.
[color=blue]
> It seems no one is even aware that this is possible...[/color]

Now we didn't say that, it's just not the PC approach.

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 05:15 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

CJ Llewellyn wrote:

<snip>[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>
>>>
>>>The same way you'd use C#, Java, Python, Perl or gazzillions of other
>>>programmin g languages as middle tier layers. Web Services + SOAP
>>>
>>>php has a whole suite of libraries already written for this type of
>>>interoperati on.
>>>
>>>http://pear.php.net/package/SOAP
>>>
>>>However as you are aleady using .net at the client end, why not write
>>>the backend in C#?
>>>[/color]
>>
>>SOAP is too heavy (and thus WDSL/web services goes out the window too), as
>>I mentioned in a previous post. I want to use sockets (I was expecting
>>someone to suggest using HttpRequest class - or whatever) ...[/color]
>
>
> Ask yourself what the advantage of trying to reinvent the wheel is? All
> you'll achive is a greater understanding why standardised protocols are a
> good thing(tm).
>[/color]
</snip>

Um, speed. Its a well known and demonstrable fact that SOAP is a
monstrously "heavy" protocol and not really ideal for real time systems.
The benefits of being a standard are crippled by its outrageously
sluggish performance.
[color=blue]
> You can of cause use .net's http client and return XML records very much
> the same way that RSS feeds/readers work.
>[/color]

No. NO XML PLEASE ...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>It seems no one is even aware that this is possible...[/color]
>
>
> Now we didn't say that, it's just not the PC approach.
>[/color]

**Chung Leong** · Dec 19 '05, 05:25 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Susan Baker wrote:[color=blue]
> Front end => Desktop GUI application
> Written in C# (GUI and presentation logic)
> This a standard exe written using WinForms
>
> Backend
> Functonal requirements specified below - what more do you need ?[/color]

I see. Now it make sense. Personally I would have gone with .Net, since
Microsoft products have a way of working better together (and not
working with those from someone else), but as you stated, it's not an
option. Give the constraints, I don't see anything better than PHP +
MySQL.

Instead of adding a layer of abstraction (i.e. complicity) with a
technology like SOAP, I would just go plain-o HTTP. Just mimic what a
browser would do.

**Susan Baker** · Dec 19 '05, 05:45 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Chung Leong wrote:
[color=blue]
> Susan Baker wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Front end => Desktop GUI application
>> Written in C# (GUI and presentation logic)
>> This a standard exe written using WinForms
>>
>>Backend
>> Functonal requirements specified below - what more do you need ?[/color]
>
>
> I see. Now it make sense. Personally I would have gone with .Net, since
> Microsoft products have a way of working better together (and not
> working with those from someone else), but as you stated, it's not an
> option. Give the constraints, I don't see anything better than PHP +
> MySQL.
>
> Instead of adding a layer of abstraction (i.e. complicity) with a
> technology like SOAP, I would just go plain-o HTTP. Just mimic what a
> browser would do.
>[/color]

Thanks Chung,

BTW have you come accross any C# code that does this sort of thing?
(communicating with PHP). I believe the HttpRequest/Response class in C#
is the way to go - but still it would be nice to see some code .... Ah,
well ...

Sue

**pinguxx** · Dec 23 '05, 10:15 PM

Re: Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

do messsage passing and everything yo need to intercomunicate with xml
and u can wotk with every lenguage u want

Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Is PhP/mySQL right for this project?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment