How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

Eric Veltman <eric@[RemoveThis]veltman.nu> wrote in message news:<vpasmerv3 2ktf0@corp.supe rnews.com>...[color=blue]
> R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
>[color=green]
> > Jochen Daum <jochen.daum@ca ns.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:<u7k9pvcq1 6hdljio84nmtcgb ieencqsjla@4ax. com>...[/color][/color]

<snip>
[color=blue]
> I think Jochen means that companies that hire freelance programmers usually
> don't regard programming as their core business.[/color]

I never heard this before. I don't understand how far it is
true...
[color=blue]
>Therefore they have less
> experience with writing specs for software, which increases the need for
> extensive communication between company and freelancer before and during
> the project.[/color]

[color=blue]
>Extensive communication is a lot harder if the freelancer is a
> remote worker. And don't start talking about video conferencing.[/color]

I don't find anything wrong with video conferencing as it is a
good communication tool.

---
"If there is a God, he must be a sadist!"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Eric Veltman]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

Hello Rajesh,

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> That's why the salaries differ so much between India <=> Europe/America.
>> Cost of living differs a lot.[/color]
>
> I don't think, it's __cost of living__, but it is *life style*[/color]

Of course cost of living also depends on lifestyle. But in the Netherlands
and I think in most other European countries as well, 100 EUR is not enough
for anyone, not even for a person with the most sober lifestyle that you can
imagine. With 100 EUR you have to live on the streets in a cardboard box,
which reminds me of a song by the way :-) I am _not_ exaggerating here !

If you don't believe me, if you think I'm just living a too fancy life,
I recommend you do some proper research, talk to some people who have lived
in Europe for some time and had to pay their own rent, taxes, food, fuel,
etc.

Best regards,

Eric

[Matthias Esken]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

ng4rrjanbiah@re diffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah) schrieb:
[color=blue]
> Eric Veltman <eric@[RemoveThis]veltman.nu> wrote in message news:<vpap11287 a0g17@corp.supe rnews.com>...[color=green]
>> Hello Rajesh,
>>
>> R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Matthias Esken <muelleimer2003 nospam@usenetve rwaltung.org> wrote in
>>>> I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
>>>> PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.
>>>
>>> The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
>>> 100.00 EUR
>>> Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
>>> work only one hour in a month!!![/color]
>>
>> So in India 100 EUR is enough to pay everything you need for a month ?[/color]
>
> It depends upon your life style. Guys working in big IT companies
> draw about 30-50 thousand a month on average.[/color]

Good for you.

Now for the real calculation[1]. The company gets 100 EURO per hour. The
programmer works 40 hours a week and 4 weeks a month. That would(!) be
16.000 EURO. Now keep in mind that the programmer has e.g. 30 days payed
holiday per year, might be sick some days, needs time to learn and is
not sold to a customer every day. That leaves the company with an
average of maybe 11.000 EURO per month. The company has to rent an
office, hire staff for the internal work, buy new hardware and new
software and so on. Calculate an average share for each co-worker this
would cut down the income to 9.000 EURO. Then the company is willing to
pay the programmer let's say 5.000 EURO per month and has to pay 7.000
EURO because there are extra expenses for the social system. The
programmer get's 5.000 EURO and has to pay taxes and his share of the
money for the social system which will leave him with 2.500 EURO per
month.

The company got a result of 2.000 EURO per month which will be further
cut down by taxes and the programmer gets 2.500 EURO. Wonder where all
the money has gone? See above and read it again!

Now the programmer has his 2.500 EURO and pays 750 EURO as the rent for
a house for his family so he has 1.750 EURO to spend. He goes to a
restaurant once a month with his family and another 60 EURO are gone.
He's a smoker and needs a package of cigarettes each days, which will
add up to 100 EURO a month. He' ll have to buy food and clothes. And so
on and so on and so on ...
[color=blue]
> I don't think, it's __cost of living__, but it is *life style*[/color]

Life is no problem with the resulting 2.500 EURO but that's far far far
away from being rich.

Regards,
Matthias

[1] In fact, the numbers might be quite rough, but they give a good idea
about the reality.

[Emanuele D'Arrigo]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

> The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says[color=blue]
> 100.00 EUR
> Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
> work only one hour in a month!!![/color]

Errrr... you are probably not aware of the cost of life differences
between India and Germany.

Whenever you are dealing with money conversion, try to find out
what is possible to buy for that money in the two different
countries. How many people can eat, in an average restaurant
with 5,269.78 INR? I can tell you that a 100 EUR dinner in an
average city restaurant in Germany is a dinner for 3, maximum 4
people.

What I mean is that the currency conversion isn't really
useful to compare wages across borders. For example, appearently
here in the UK you can buy with 1 British Pound the same stuff
that in Europe you buy with 1 EUR and in the US with 1 Dollar.
This has exceptions but in terms of daily life, after a bit of
experience moving around, it's something that tends to be true.

Ciao ciao!

anu

[Gokhan ARLI]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

I do aggree with Erik and all other european guys. Cost of living is
pretty high in Netherlands(and in Europe) that I cannot accept jobs
less than 40 euro per hour(I have my own company that I turned one
room of my house to an office).

Because
I pay 1/3 of my income as tax
I pay my pension
I pay my insurances
I pay my internet connection(45 euro per month)
I pay one time cost for printer/computer/software( Did you know
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET is around 2000 euro)

And
I do not earn money when I am on vacation, when I break my
arm(football), when I dont have a project( Yeah we have economic
slowdown here still)


If I charge less, better I go for full time job because it provides
lots of security, which includes pension, insurances, payment when
sick, vacation money.

Working in India and Europe is totally different. Hard to make one to
one comparision.

PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents
because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
get a house.

Gokhan Arli
Web Developer

https://www.sylow.net

[Kevin Thorpe]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

> PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents[color=blue]
> because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
> even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
> get a house.[/color]

400 euro (GBP 275) a month! Try living in London mate; Going rate for a
two bed flat where I live is more like GBP 1200 (1744 euro).

[Eric Kincl]

Re: How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

Gokhan ARLI wrote:
[color=blue]
> I do aggree with Erik and all other european guys. Cost of living is
> pretty high in Netherlands(and in Europe) that I cannot accept jobs
> less than 40 euro per hour(I have my own company that I turned one
> room of my house to an office).
>
> Because
> I pay 1/3 of my income as tax
> I pay my pension
> I pay my insurances
> I pay my internet connection(45 euro per month)
> I pay one time cost for printer/computer/software( Did you know
> Microsoft Visual Studio .NET is around 2000 euro)
>
> And
> I do not earn money when I am on vacation, when I break my
> arm(football), when I dont have a project( Yeah we have economic
> slowdown here still)
>
>
> If I charge less, better I go for full time job because it provides
> lots of security, which includes pension, insurances, payment when
> sick, vacation money.
>
> Working in India and Europe is totally different. Hard to make one to
> one comparision.
>
> PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents
> because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
> even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
> get a house.
>
> Gokhan Arli
> Web Developer
> www.sylow.net[/color]

Think Europe is bad? Try living in the Silicon Valley. (San Jose, CA, USA)
Thankfully I'm not completely out on my own yet (college student) so I
don't have to pay 1/3-1/2 a million USD for a stinking 3 bedroom 2 bath
house with no yard.


-Eric Kincl