PHP is the VB of Linux

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Google Mike

    PHP is the VB of Linux

    I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest. I guess I'm talking to
    the newbies out there wondering if they want to remain on ASP.NET, C#,
    JSP, or whatever, or whether they want to do their next project in
    PHP.

    Okay. I moved from Microsoft Windows 2000 and Visual Basic and ASP to
    Linux and JSP. I plan to stay on Linux now. Let's just say that I did
    it, but JSP was aggravating. I had to type 10 times more code than I
    felt I had to, and the data types always got in my way. Often I would
    have to write some code, fix it, recompile again, then test, find a
    bug, go back, etc. -- the compilation step was aggravating and slowed
    things down a great deal. I kept wanting a VB for Linux.

    Then, I started working with PHP and MySQL because I felt it had
    finally matured. To my surprise, besides the {} and ;, PHP pretty much
    is the VB of Linux thanks to the raw speed of the Zend PHP4 engine, if
    not the PHP5 one around the corner. With PHP, I don't have to worry
    about data types, mess with the slow compilation step, have the pain
    of adding the JDBC connector to JSP, and I can write 10 times less
    code and still have pretty fast pages. And, since you can now compile
    PHP, you can run even faster than JSP if you need to do so. To top
    things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+ windowing
    engine so that one can make standalone apps or client/server form
    apps.

    When I say VB and ASP, I didn't mean VB.NET. I took a class in VB.NET
    and had to write code in C# and ASP.NET. Microsoft made some things
    easier, and some things were ten times harder. I found the XML/XSLT
    library sucked and was incomplete compared to the old one. Plus, I
    realized I was writing for an unstable, unsecure, proprietary platform
    that is doing nothing but get more and more complex. I thought, if
    Windows is going in the direction of complexity and lock-in, and Linux
    and Java is doing a 180 on that, and things have matured with Linux
    and Java, why don't I just make the move, wholesale, to Linux? And it
    was done. At first I liked JSP just to be free from Microsoft, but I'm
    very glad I finally moved to PHP, where I plan to stay.

    RedHat 9 made Apache, PHP, and MySQL a snap to install -- using
    nothing but 6 checkboxes on the Add/Remove Programs and inserting the
    disks.

    Right now, the buzz is all about MySQL and LAMP, but with PostgreSQL
    starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes, we all
    might be moving to LAPP with PostgreSQL, remaining open source.

    So, anyway, I'm thinking about writing a work order management system
    / CRM as either a PHP web app, or a PHP/MySQL (or PostgreSQL)
    appliance. I plan to make an open source version, and then a
    customized version that I can sell for cash. The appliance would be a
    rackmount 2 drive hardware mirror, AMD proc., with tape drive. Yes, it
    would be built on Linux. You would manage the appliance with a web
    browser and it would do nothing but feed it the daily tapes, keep it
    in a cool, dust-free environment, and give it a nice UPS.

    So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no further
    than PHP. It has matured.
  • Pham Nuwen

    #2
    Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

    Google Mike wrote:
    [color=blue]
    > I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest.[/color]

    An excellent post.
    [color=blue]
    > I kept wanting a VB for Linux.[/color]

    cross-platform development tool, cross-platform app development tool, mobile development, multi-platform developement tool, mac development software, Xojo programming, Real Studio, REALbasic, Software Development Tool, Develop For Windows From Mac, Alternative to VB, VB for Mac, rapid application development tool, low code development tool, learn programming


    According to the website Version 5.5 which is due RSN will also support
    Linux.

    As much as I love PHP this is very tempting at least for building user
    GUI frontends.
    [color=blue]
    > To top things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+
    > windowing engine so that one can make standalone apps or
    > client/server form apps.[/color]

    While that is great until it gets a decent RAD IDE it is still going to
    be best suited to the command line, and web.
    [color=blue]
    > RedHat 9 made Apache, PHP, and MySQL a snap to install -- using
    > nothing but 6 checkboxes on the Add/Remove Programs and inserting the
    > disks.[/color]

    RH9 is very nice, I'm very happy not only with it, but the RHN too.
    [color=blue]
    > Right now, the buzz is all about MySQL and LAMP, but with PostgreSQL
    > starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes, we all
    > might be moving to LAPP with PostgreSQL, remaining open source.[/color]

    IMHO Postgresql is WAY ahead of MySQL, and has been for a couple of
    years. Postgresql I believe is only a year or two from being real
    competition to Oracle.
    [color=blue]
    > So, anyway, I'm thinking about writing a work order management system
    > / CRM as either a PHP web app, or a PHP/MySQL (or PostgreSQL)
    > appliance. I plan to make an open source version, and then a
    > customized version that I can sell for cash. The appliance would be a
    > rackmount 2 drive hardware mirror, AMD proc., with tape drive. Yes,
    > it would be built on Linux. You would manage the appliance with a web
    > browser and it would do nothing but feed it the daily tapes, keep it
    > in a cool, dust-free environment, and give it a nice UPS.[/color]

    An interesting business opportunity for sure, best of luck on your project.
    [color=blue]
    > So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no
    > further than PHP. It has matured.[/color]

    I'll agree to that. I have fallen in love with PHP this past year. I
    slaved away with PERL and shell scripting for years to build server side
    tools and interfaces as a systems administrator. Then I found PHP, and
    while it started as a need to fix some web page tools, I soon found PHP
    was very good off the web too. I now do all my coding in PHP.... PERL,
    and BASH scripts are a thing of the past for me. I now actually enjoy
    coding again. Most of the stuff I'm doing uses Postgresql as a database
    and custom sockets for interfacing to business systems. It is amazing
    how much easier it is because of PHP.

    --
    /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
    I pham.nuwen3d6@l ibertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
    I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
    I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous . - Ben Franklin I
    \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

    Comment

    • 127.0.0.1

      #3
      Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

      Pham Nuwen wrote:
      [color=blue]
      > Google Mike wrote:
      >[color=green]
      > > I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest.[/color]
      >
      > An excellent post.[/color]

      If PHP is the VB of Linux, what is the Fosters ?

      --
      Spam:newsgroup( at)craznar.com@ verisign-sux-klj.com
      EMail:<01100011 001011100110001 001110101011100 10011010110
      110010101000000 011000110111001 001100001011110 10011011100
      110000101110010 001011100110001 101101111011011 0100100000>

      Comment

      • Google Mike

        #4
        Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

        Pham Nuwen <pham.nuwen3d6@ libertydice.org > wrote in message[color=blue]
        >
        > IMHO Postgresql is WAY ahead of MySQL, and has been for a couple of
        > years. Postgresql I believe is only a year or two from being real
        > competition to Oracle.[/color]

        I guess I just don't know enough about Postgresql. I would think this
        would be very useful information to know when doing a PHP project. I'd
        really rather go full open source with my projects, so perhaps I need
        to give it a try.

        I did notice at my rinky dink bookstore here in Florence, South
        Carolina, though, that there were 5 books on Postgresql and about 12
        books on either LAMP or MySQL. Last year, I never even knew Postgresql
        existed. So, it looks like it's gaining on mindshare. I have to also
        think that I have to sell my solutions to IT Departments. Right now,
        they know LAMP. If I said this isn't LAMP, but LAPP, I just don't know
        if they'd "get" it.

        I noticed that RH9 comes with it and it looks about as easy as MySQL
        to fire up from the services control panel.

        MySQL has a pretty reliable GUI called MySQL Command Console (mysqlcc)
        that makes things super easy for me, like using MS Access or MS SQL
        Server. Is there an equivalent on Postgresql?

        MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the most
        part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is ANSI-92 to the
        nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?

        Comment

        • Phil Roberts

          #5
          Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

          With total disregard for any kind of safety measures
          googlemike@hotp op.com (Google Mike) leapt forth and uttered:
          [color=blue]
          > Pham Nuwen <pham.nuwen3d6@ libertydice.org > wrote in message[color=green]
          >>[/color]
          > MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the
          > most part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is
          > ANSI-92 to the nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?
          >[/color]

          MySQL always wins out in raw speed trials, but PostgreSQL kills it in
          terms of scalability (ie the ability to handle massive databases
          without significant performance loss.) Which makes it far more
          attractive for very intensive uses and very busy web applications.

          Also, as Postgre supports fun stuff like triggers and stored
          procedures it makes it a hell of a lot more attractive for business
          applications.

          --
          There is no signature.....

          Comment

          • 127.0.0.1

            #6
            Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

            Phil Roberts wrote:
            [color=blue]
            > Also, as Postgre supports fun stuff like triggers and stored
            > procedures it makes it a hell of a lot more attractive for business
            > applications.[/color]

            Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
            makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.



            --
            Spam:newsgroup( at)craznar.com@ verisign-sux-klj.com
            EMail:<01100011 001011100110001 001110101011100 10011010110
            110010101000000 011000110111001 001100001011110 10011011100
            110000101110010 001011100110001 101101111011011 0100100000>

            Comment

            • Ian.H

              #7
              Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

              On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:04 -0700, Google Mike wrote:
              [color=blue]
              > PHP pretty much is the VB of Linux[/color]


              Thank you Mike... you have just made my hall of most _stupid_ quotes!!!!!

              1:> PHP != specifically Unix (so there goes your point!)
              2:> VB == M$ Bullshit!!!!!!! !!! (and yes, I did used to use it)
              3:> M$ == _Bad News_ period!


              That's like comparing an innocent kid in a Xmas play and a serial
              killer... feel free to bash yourself relentlessly with my cluebat.

              Still, what a chuckle you have just given me.. thanks.



              Regards,

              Ian

              --
              Ian.H [Design & Development]
              digiServ Network - Web solutions
              www.digiserv.net | irc.digiserv.ne t | forum.digiserv. net
              Programming, Web design, development & hosting.

              Comment

              • Alan Little

                #8
                Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
                Google Mike of comp.lang.php make plain:
                [color=blue]
                > starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes,[/color]
                Licensing changes?
                [color=blue]
                > So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no further
                > than PHP. It has matured.[/color]

                As one who's worked extensively in both PHP and VBScript, your comparison
                just about made me toss my cookies. I've started including little rants
                in the comments in my VBScript code whenever I run into something
                incredibly stupid, which really is quite often.

                That said, I don't mean to knock you. I certainly can appreciate the
                sentiment of your post. For someone who's worked only in VB and doesn't
                know what a horrible, horrible "language" it is, your comparison is quite
                apt.

                But overall it's like comparing a high-grade, fine-tuned sports car to a
                kiddie cart. VBScript is such a wannabe language. Then again, Windows is
                such a wannabe OS. So I guess the comparison really is appropriate!

                --
                Alan Little
                Phorm PHP Form Processor

                Comment

                • Pham Nuwen

                  #9
                  Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                  Google Mike wrote:[color=blue]
                  > I guess I just don't know enough about Postgresql. I would think this
                  > would be very useful information to know when doing a PHP project. I'd
                  > really rather go full open source with my projects, so perhaps I need
                  > to give it a try.[/color]

                  I would, it is far more robust than MySQL IMHO, and much closer to being
                  a real RDMS. besides the learning curve is pretty small, most of the
                  basic PHP/PG functions are almost the same except use pg_<function>
                  instead of mysql_<function >.
                  [color=blue]
                  > I did notice at my rinky dink bookstore here in Florence, South
                  > Carolina, though, that there were 5 books on Postgresql and about 12
                  > books on either LAMP or MySQL. Last year, I never even knew Postgresql
                  > existed. So, it looks like it's gaining on mindshare. I have to also
                  > think that I have to sell my solutions to IT Departments. Right now,
                  > they know LAMP. If I said this isn't LAMP, but LAPP, I just don't know
                  > if they'd "get" it.[/color]

                  Now, next, and beyond: Tracking need-to-know trends at the intersection of business and technology


                  "Let the M stand for MySQL and PostGreSQL."


                  [color=blue]
                  > I noticed that RH9 comes with it and it looks about as easy as MySQL
                  > to fire up from the services control panel.[/color]

                  Yep it is. once you fire it up you do:

                  su - postgres
                  createuser <your dba user>
                  <y>
                  <y>
                  createdb <your database name>
                  exit
                  edit /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf & postgresql.conf if you want it to
                  be available to the network on port 5432.
                  su - <your dba user>
                  psql <your database name>

                  and away you go.
                  [color=blue]
                  > MySQL has a pretty reliable GUI called MySQL Command Console (mysqlcc)
                  > that makes things super easy for me, like using MS Access or MS SQL
                  > Server. Is there an equivalent on Postgresql?[/color]

                  Several.

                  pgAdmin is the gui (availble for Linux & Windows).
                  phpPgAdmin is the web based counterpart to phpMyAdmin.
                  [color=blue]
                  > MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the most
                  > part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is ANSI-92 to the
                  > nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?[/color]

                  Not really, and anything it loses in speed, trust me it more than makes
                  up in functionality, and reliability.

                  --
                  /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
                  I pham.nuwen3d6@l ibertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
                  I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
                  I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous . - Ben Franklin I
                  \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

                  Comment

                  • Pham Nuwen

                    #10
                    Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                    127.0.0.1 wrote:[color=blue]
                    > Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
                    > makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.[/color]

                    What is so horrible about it? I don't have any troubles with it, and I
                    have tables with 1.5 Million rows.

                    --
                    /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
                    I pham.nuwen3d6@l ibertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
                    I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
                    I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous . - Ben Franklin I
                    \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

                    Comment

                    • 127.0.0.1

                      #11
                      Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                      Pham Nuwen wrote:
                      [color=blue][color=green]
                      > > Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
                      > > makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.[/color]
                      >
                      > What is so horrible about it? I don't have any troubles with it, and
                      > I have tables with 1.5 Million rows.[/color]

                      Does the content of those tables change frequently, and do you have any
                      tall skinny tables ?

                      --
                      Spam:newsgroup( at)craznar.com@ verisign-sux-klj.com
                      EMail:<01100011 001011100110001 001110101011100 10011010110
                      110010101000000 011000110111001 001100001011110 10011011100
                      110000101110010 001011100110001 101101111011011 0100100000>

                      Comment

                      • Gerhard Fiedler

                        #12
                        Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                        On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:03:05 GMT, Pham Nuwen wrote:[color=blue]
                        >Not really, and anything it loses in speed, trust me it more than makes
                        >up in functionality, and reliability.[/color]

                        When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
                        Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
                        experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
                        happen with MySQL. For me, that was a major turn down (after all,
                        before features comes data in a data base). Do you have any comments
                        on that?

                        Comment

                        • Keith Bowes

                          #13
                          Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                          Pham Nuwen wrote:[color=blue]
                          > Google Mike wrote:
                          >
                          >[color=green]
                          >> To top things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+
                          >> windowing engine so that one can make standalone apps or
                          >> client/server form apps.[/color]
                          >
                          >
                          > While that is great until it gets a decent RAD IDE it is still going to
                          > be best suited to the command line, and web.
                          >[/color]

                          There's GLADE. So, I'd assume that PHP has just as good of a RAD as C does.


                          Comment

                          • Google Mike

                            #14
                            Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                            Gerhard Fiedler <me@privacy.net > wrote...[color=blue]
                            > When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
                            > Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
                            > experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
                            > happen with MySQL. For me, that was a major turn down (after all,
                            > before features comes data in a data base). Do you have any comments
                            > on that?[/color]

                            What a bummer. Before I consider PostgreSQL, I better know it's as
                            reliable as MySQL. I haven't had anything but great experiences with
                            MySQL. About the only thing that was a bummer for me was the odd
                            case-sensitivies with MySQL when accessing via PHP.

                            Comment

                            • Gerhard Fiedler

                              #15
                              Re: PHP is the VB of Linux

                              On 13 Oct 2003 06:58:11 -0700, Google Mike wrote:[color=blue]
                              >About the only thing that was a bummer for me was the odd
                              >case-sensitivies with MySQL when accessing via PHP.[/color]

                              Can you expand a bit on that? I haven't seen anything like this (and
                              would like to know before I start chasing something else in case it
                              happens to me :)

                              Comment

                              Working...