What IDE are you using?

[typingcat@gmail.com]

First of all, I'm an Asian and I need to input Japanese, Korean and so
on. I've tried many PHP IDEs today, but almost non of them supported
Unicode (UTF-8) file.

I've found that the only Unicode support IDEs are DreamWeaver 8 and
Zend PHP Studio.

DreamWeaver provides full support for Unicode. However, DreamWeaver is
a web editor rather than a PHP IDE. It only supports basic IntelliSense
(or code completion) and doesn't have anything like a class view.

Zend PHP Studio supports Unicode but have many problems. It couldn't
display Korean when I set a Japanese font for the editor, and couldn't
display Japanese when I set a Korean font for the editor. The most
obvious problem is it's too slow. It provides really good support for
coding like class view, debugging and advanced IntelliSense, but it's
too slow for my PC.

I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

[Janwillem Borleffs]

Re: What IDE are you using?

typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=blue]
> I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
> I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.
>[/color]

I'm not using an IDE, EditPlus is all I need. But if I would want to use an
IDE, I would go for Eclipse.


JW

[Andy Jeffries]

Re: What IDE are you using?

typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=blue]
> I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
> I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.[/color]

I use gPHPEdit(www.gphpedit.org), but then I would - I'm the author of it!

That won't help you though as it doesn't work under Windows (yet,
someone is giving porting a go). It also doesn't have debugging
support, but it does have integrated help (using PHP HTML docs) and a
class browser.


Cheers,


Andy

[typingcat@gmail.com]

Re: What IDE are you using?

So you don't use an IDE but just a text editor? Well, many computer
gurus did like that in the past, but doesn't it take too much time for
a novice like to remember all the members and functions or look them up
in the manual? I think code completion and class view really helps
people like me.

Janwillem Borleffs wrote:[color=blue]
> typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=green]
> > I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
> > I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.
> >[/color]
>
> I'm not using an IDE, EditPlus is all I need. But if I would want to use an
> IDE, I would go for Eclipse.
>
>
> JW[/color]

[Janwillem Borleffs]

Re: What IDE are you using?

typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=blue]
> So you don't use an IDE but just a text editor? Well, many computer
> gurus did like that in the past, but doesn't it take too much time for
> a novice like to remember all the members and functions or look them
> up in the manual? I think code completion and class view really helps
> people like me.
>[/color]

True, but OTOH, code completion makes people lazy. Text editors force you to
remember functions, which I think is a benefit.


JW

[Oli Filth]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Janwillem Borleffs said the following on 23/10/2005 17:06:[color=blue]
> typingcat@gmail .com wrote:
>[color=green]
>>So you don't use an IDE but just a text editor? Well, many computer
>>gurus did like that in the past, but doesn't it take too much time for
>>a novice like to remember all the members and functions or look them
>>up in the manual? I think code completion and class view really helps
>>people like me.
>>[/color]
> True, but OTOH, code completion makes people lazy. Text editors force you to
> remember functions, which I think is a benefit.
>[/color]

Are you serious?? ;)

Where's the benefit in having to remember the exact syntax for
hundreds/thousands of functions?

That's just a massive pain in the arse, and surely must slow you down
considerably, especially when you only find you made a mistake at
run-time... You might as well be programming in assembler if you like it
raw! :)


Admittedly, the benefit of class-views etc. must be somewhat limited for
a dynamically-typed language like PHP. But in strongly-typed languages
like C++, C# or Java that have *massive* APIs, intellisense and
class-views etc. are an absolute god-send.

IMO, being a good programmer is not about knowing the fine details of
the language syntax; syntax is just a means to an end.

--
Oli

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Oli Filth wrote:[color=blue]
> Janwillem Borleffs said the following on 23/10/2005 17:06:
>
>
> Are you serious?? ;)
>
> Where's the benefit in having to remember the exact syntax for
> hundreds/thousands of functions?
>
> That's just a massive pain in the arse, and surely must slow you down
> considerably, especially when you only find you made a mistake at
> run-time... You might as well be programming in assembler if you like it
> raw! :)
>
>
> Admittedly, the benefit of class-views etc. must be somewhat limited for
> a dynamically-typed language like PHP. But in strongly-typed languages
> like C++, C# or Java that have *massive* APIs, intellisense and
> class-views etc. are an absolute god-send.
>
> IMO, being a good programmer is not about knowing the fine details of
> the language syntax; syntax is just a means to an end.
>[/color]

I'm with Janwillem on this. I use a text editor. I have no problems
remembering function names, parameters, etc. And if I do, the only help
is only a click away.

I've tried other IDEs which provide code completion, etc. I find they
slow me down.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Tony Marston]

Re: What IDE are you using?

I use PHPEdit from www.waterprrof.fr. It is free for personal use.

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net

"Janwillem Borleffs" <jw@jwscripts.c om> wrote in message
news:435b837a$0 $68802$dbd49001 @news.euronet.n l...[color=blue]
> typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=green]
>> I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
>> I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.
>>[/color]
>
> I'm not using an IDE, EditPlus is all I need. But if I would want to use
> an IDE, I would go for Eclipse.
>
>
> JW
>
>
>[/color]

[el_roachmeister@yahoo.com]

Re: What IDE are you using?

I just use pico and google. For web software I find it easier to code
seperate scripts to do different things rather than mass everything
into one large script. Since each script is only a few hundred lines
and long and is independent of other scrtips, pico and google work fine
for me!

[jussij@zeusedit.com]

Re: What IDE are you using?

> but doesn't it take too much time for a novice like to remember[color=blue]
> all the members and functions or look them up in the manual?[/color]

Provided your manual is in an electronic format, for example
this one:

http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9

it should be easy enough to have your editor/ide integrate
with the manual, making it possible to search the manual
with a single key press and have the results displayed in
an instant.
[color=blue]
> I think code completion and class view really helps
> people like me.[/color]

Zeus for Windows offers the speed of a text editor with IDE
features like class browsing, syntax highlighting, code
folding etc:

http://www.zeusedit.com/php.html

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows
NOTE: Zeus is shareware (45 day trial).

[Gw]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Currently I'm using a text editor (http://www.textpad.com being my
editor of choice) and that's been fine for the majority of projects
I've worked on, but I do miss the convenience of a powerful IDE like
DevStudio.

PHPEd from NuSphere (http://www.nusphere.com/) looks pretty good -
built in debugger, profiler, SOAP client and stuff. The trial version
is sitting on my computer, I just haven't had time to look at it yet.
Has anyone used it, and what do they think?

Cheers

Gwaredd

http://red-dawg.co.uk

[Ramon]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Using Zend Studio at the moment. IMO opinion there's nothing out there
other then Zend and perhaps NuSphere (which I haven't tried)for large
scale PHP development.

And anyone that stated in this thread that they don't need anything more
then textpad, obviously have not worked on a large scale PHP project.
When you have multiple people if not teams working on the same project,
its a bloody pain in the ass to have to look up what some tool, in some
other department called a fanction and what parameters it takes.

Thats only the start, IDEs (Zend) in this case provide me with several
other features:

1) Debugger, this is a must, being able to view objects / array /
variables run time, cuts down development time by at least 50% (probably
more). Instead of having to print_r() every second line to find out
whats going on.

2) Integratted PHPDoc, those of you who came out with guns blazing
saying TextPad is all I need ra.. ra.. ra.. May not have the use for it,
but my team and I certainly do.

Integrated CVS, FTP, SFTP, Database browser, Table Browser (for most
db's including oracle 10g), Code analyser, profiler, watches,
breakpoints, projects, auto indentatio.

Thats just a few of the features that come to mind, yes Zend support is
really terrible... I mean really bad. But as far as large scale PHP
development goes you can't go past it. Yes, I understand that people
strugle with change, but you are prooving nothing to me saying that you
can do it all with TextPad. I used to be in the same shoes, sure you can
do it with TextPad, its only going to take you alot more time.


typingcat@gmail .com wrote:[color=blue]
> First of all, I'm an Asian and I need to input Japanese, Korean and so
> on. I've tried many PHP IDEs today, but almost non of them supported
> Unicode (UTF-8) file.
>
> I've found that the only Unicode support IDEs are DreamWeaver 8 and
> Zend PHP Studio.
>
> DreamWeaver provides full support for Unicode. However, DreamWeaver is
> a web editor rather than a PHP IDE. It only supports basic IntelliSense
> (or code completion) and doesn't have anything like a class view.
>
> Zend PHP Studio supports Unicode but have many problems. It couldn't
> display Korean when I set a Japanese font for the editor, and couldn't
> display Japanese when I set a Korean font for the editor. The most
> obvious problem is it's too slow. It provides really good support for
> coding like class view, debugging and advanced IntelliSense, but it's
> too slow for my PC.
>
> I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
> I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.
>[/color]

[Jerry Stuckle]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Ramon wrote:[color=blue]
> Using Zend Studio at the moment. IMO opinion there's nothing out there
> other then Zend and perhaps NuSphere (which I haven't tried)for large
> scale PHP development.
>
> And anyone that stated in this thread that they don't need anything more
> then textpad, obviously have not worked on a large scale PHP project.
> When you have multiple people if not teams working on the same project,
> its a bloody pain in the ass to have to look up what some tool, in some
> other department called a fanction and what parameters it takes.
>[/color]

Please don't tell me what I have or have not worked on. I have been on
a couple of very large PHP projects, probably much larger than anything
you've been on (50+ programmers, several hundred K LOC).

No, it's NOT hard to determine what other departments have done. It's
called DOCUMENTATION.
[color=blue]
> Thats only the start, IDEs (Zend) in this case provide me with several
> other features:
>
> 1) Debugger, this is a must, being able to view objects / array /
> variables run time, cuts down development time by at least 50% (probably
> more). Instead of having to print_r() every second line to find out
> whats going on.
>
> 2) Integratted PHPDoc, those of you who came out with guns blazing
> saying TextPad is all I need ra.. ra.. ra.. May not have the use for it,
> but my team and I certainly do.
>
> Integrated CVS, FTP, SFTP, Database browser, Table Browser (for most
> db's including oracle 10g), Code analyser, profiler, watches,
> breakpoints, projects, auto indentatio.
>
> Thats just a few of the features that come to mind, yes Zend support is
> really terrible... I mean really bad. But as far as large scale PHP
> development goes you can't go past it. Yes, I understand that people
> strugle with change, but you are prooving nothing to me saying that you
> can do it all with TextPad. I used to be in the same shoes, sure you can
> do it with TextPad, its only going to take you alot more time.
>
>[/color]

Sure, Zend has some advantages. Some or the people on the projects used
it. Others didn't.

I don't object to change. I tried Zend. The debugger is great. But
the IDE was too slow and limiting.

I'm not saying Zend or other IDE's are bad. They aren't. But what
works for one person does not work for every person. I work much faster
with a text editor than when using Zend. And most of our most
experienced programmers found the same. The newer programmers were more
likely to use Zend or some other IDE.

Interestingly enough, it was the most experienced programmers with their
text editors who invariably had the highest production and fewest errors.


--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Andrew DeFaria]

Re: What IDE are you using?

typingcat@gmail .com wrote:
[color=blue]
> So you don't use an IDE but just a text editor?[/color]

I use XEmacs...
[color=blue]
> Well, many computer gurus did like that in the past, but doesn't it
> take too much time for a novice like to remember all the members and
> functions or look them up in the manual?[/color]

That's why god invented the web! ;-)

One window in XEmacs, one in Firefox at http://php.net... And one OS to
bind them all... :-)
[color=blue]
> I think code completion and class view really helps people like me.[/color]

That might be nice but it doesn't beat dabbrev mode where one can not
only code complete function names but anything like variable names, etc.

[Andrew DeFaria]

Re: What IDE are you using?

Oli Filth wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> True, but OTOH, code completion makes people lazy. Text editors force
>> you to remember functions, which I think is a benefit.[/color]
>
> Are you serious?? ;)
>
> Where's the benefit in having to remember the exact syntax for
> hundreds/thousands of functions?[/color]

Of what benefit is there to be using functions that you don't know
intimately?!?

Perhaps it's clearest benefit is the realization that any such library
that has hundreds/thousands of functions is way to complex to be using!
[color=blue]
> That's just a massive pain in the arse, and surely must slow you down
> considerably, especially when you only find you made a mistake at
> run-time... You might as well be programming in assembler if you like
> it raw! :)[/color]

Assembler would be quicker! Running that is. And yes some people still
program in assembler. http://grc.com/smgassembly.htm
[color=blue]
> Admittedly, the benefit of class-views etc. must be somewhat limited
> for a dynamically-typed language like PHP. But in strongly-typed
> languages like C++, C# or Java that have *massive* APIs, intellisense
> and class-views etc. are an absolute god-send.
>
> IMO, being a good programmer is not about knowing the fine details of
> the language syntax; syntax is just a means to an end.[/color]

Being a good programmer is understanding the nature and workings of the
code you write and the code you use.