Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

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  • reciprocity85@gmail.com

    Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

    Hello all.

    I have a question about what you all get paid, and what I should expect
    in my situation. I googled quite a bit, but not come up with any
    benchmarks definite enough that I would want to approach my employer
    with, so I figured I would check with you, since presumably at least
    some of you do this for money.

    I have been with a small company in Laguna Hills, CA for almost two
    years now. I am the only programmer here (effectively anyway--my boss
    knows a bit of ASP and minor scripting stuff). I'm currently only 20
    and not even halfway through college yet. The company shows great
    promise, and I absolutely love working with the rest of the people in
    the company, including my boss. They are extremely flexible with me
    when it comes to getting hours in, and fitting in classes each
    semester. We are on very good terms. There is no reason on earth I
    would want to leave right now, or in the forseeable future.

    That said, know that I am currently in a salaried position, 24 hours
    (effectively 3 days) per week, at $20 per hour. I don't feel like I'm
    being exploited in any way; my boss is not the type who would take
    advantage of me because I'm just some young college student and I still
    live at home. But I'm also fairly confident I could ask for more.

    Now, I'm not an absolute guru, but I am completely confident that I
    *don't* suck. I've been programming in various languages since I was 8
    (starting with copying GW-BASIC program listings out of the back of
    Usborne science books), and have worked extensively with many
    implementations of BASIC (DOS and Windows), C/C++, PERL, ASP, and now
    PHP and MySQL. My strongest language used to be C++, since I spent
    most of my teenage years working and playing with that. However, I've
    now been working with PHP for a very solid two years, and I've gotten
    quite proficient with it. I write easy-to-read, structured code. I
    comment. I divide files logically so that all related functions are
    grouped together.

    Now, to give you an idea of the level of code that I'm working with.
    I'm not still in the GET-based ugly HTML form submission stage. No.
    The project I've been working on is a complete customer management
    web-app, using PHP and MySQL. This contains oodles of DHTML and
    javascript in addition to the server-side code. It provides network
    component logging, contact management, documentation (for every single
    visit they make to clients), full calendar/scheduling, task lists,
    alerting (even so far as automatically sending text message reminders
    to phones). This is one huge and awesome project. They used to use
    Exchange and Outlook, but have since dropped that to use this instead.
    Everyone who uses it thinks it's awesome, so it's not like they're
    being forced into a crappy system because it's company policy.

    Keep in mind, I'm the ONLY programmer on this project. Granted, other
    people do most of the conceptual design, but I'm the guy who has to
    make it happen. This also means I'm the only guy who can fix problems
    if they show up on some random weekend. I'm also the guy handling the
    SSH-based maintenance (though it is very low) of the virtual private
    server this thing is hosted on.

    So to sum up:

    My 2-year review is coming in a couple weeks, and I want to know what I
    can ask for. I realize my station in life (live-at-home college
    student) *should* have absolutely no bearing on my wages; I know the
    quality of work should be the only thing that affects that. So, based
    on the above information, what should I ask for?

    I don't want to screw the pooch, so to speak. I'm willing to make a
    sacrifice in the money side of things in order to keep a really good
    relationship with my boss. All the flexibility and totally great work
    atmosphere are worth something to me. Though, my boss isn't the type
    who would get all indignant just because I ask for more, as long as I'm
    not a jerk about it.

    So folks, what's reasonable? I appreciate any and all input. Thanks.

  • SOR

    #2
    Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

    <comp.lang.ph p , reciprocity85@g mail.com , reciprocity85@g mail.com>
    <1123539264.589 297.150200@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>
    <8 Aug 2005 15:14:24 -0700>
    [color=blue]
    > So to sum up:
    >
    > My 2-year review is coming in a couple weeks, and I want to know what I
    > can ask for. I realize my station in life (live-at-home college
    > student) *should* have absolutely no bearing on my wages; I know the
    > quality of work should be the only thing that affects that. So, based
    > on the above information, what should I ask for?
    >
    > I don't want to screw the pooch, so to speak. I'm willing to make a
    > sacrifice in the money side of things in order to keep a really good
    > relationship with my boss. All the flexibility and totally great work
    > atmosphere are worth something to me. Though, my boss isn't the type
    > who would get all indignant just because I ask for more, as long as I'm
    > not a jerk about it.
    >
    > So folks, what's reasonable? I appreciate any and all input. Thanks.
    >[/color]

    Psychology 101 says you shouldnt ask for anything .

    Let him make the offer .

    - pick a quiet time of the day

    - ask the boss if he has a few moments for a private chat

    - you like working there and you like him etc

    - explain you will honor your commitments and finish any work

    - but in x amount of time you would like to broaden yourself and will
    soon be looking at other job opportunitys

    - perhaps even give another member of staff a bit of training before you
    leave etc

    Now , From what you say about the guy he will understand and will wish
    you the best of luck on your career .

    As your not leaving straight away he wont make any offers there and then
    as he doesnt have too - he will think it over for a few days or perhaps
    even a week .

    The chances are *if* your boss wants to keep you he wont wait too long
    before making you a offer as he knows the longer the gap the more chance
    there is of you seeing a higher paying job elsewhere .

    Your boss will then ask you if you have few minutes to spare for a chat
    and when that happens its ching a ching ching dollar signs DONT GET
    COCKY when this happens as your boss will no doubt have as much macho
    pride as you do .

    Not that your irreplaceable or anything - for the sake of a extra few
    bucks it would save upsetting what sounds like a smooth running self
    administrating company .

    Comment

    • Mike Willbanks

      #3
      Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

      > I have been with a small company in Laguna Hills, CA for almost two[color=blue]
      > years now. I am the only programmer here (effectively anyway--my boss
      > knows a bit of ASP and minor scripting stuff). I'm currently only 20
      > and not even halfway through college yet. The company shows great
      > promise, and I absolutely love working with the rest of the people in
      > the company, including my boss. They are extremely flexible with me
      > when it comes to getting hours in, and fitting in classes each
      > semester. We are on very good terms. There is no reason on earth I
      > would want to leave right now, or in the forseeable future.[/color]

      This is the biggest part, first off they are being really flexible and
      also allowing you the time to go to school. Any amount of money and
      also experience is worth every penny.
      [color=blue]
      > That said, know that I am currently in a salaried position, 24 hours
      > (effectively 3 days) per week, at $20 per hour. I don't feel like I'm
      > being exploited in any way; my boss is not the type who would take
      > advantage of me because I'm just some young college student and I still
      > live at home. But I'm also fairly confident I could ask for more.[/color]

      I would take that consideration into much more thought. $20 is fairly
      average... thats $40K/yr but also for CA I am not sure around the
      salary... Salaries are normally per state but that is a pretty good pay
      for how flexible they are being with you.
      [color=blue]
      > Now, I'm not an absolute guru, but I am completely confident that I
      > *don't* suck. I've been programming in various languages since I was 8
      > (starting with copying GW-BASIC program listings out of the back of
      > Usborne science books), and have worked extensively with many
      > implementations of BASIC (DOS and Windows), C/C++, PERL, ASP, and now
      > PHP and MySQL. My strongest language used to be C++, since I spent
      > most of my teenage years working and playing with that. However, I've
      > now been working with PHP for a very solid two years, and I've gotten
      > quite proficient with it. I write easy-to-read, structured code. I
      > comment. I divide files logically so that all related functions are
      > grouped together.[/color]

      The code is not the important part... anyone can write.. its the
      conceptual and proven models that you are working with. Also having
      education and having been certified to back it up.
      [color=blue]
      > My 2-year review is coming in a couple weeks, and I want to know what I
      > can ask for. I realize my station in life (live-at-home college
      > student) *should* have absolutely no bearing on my wages; I know the
      > quality of work should be the only thing that affects that. So, based
      > on the above information, what should I ask for?[/color]

      Normally at reviews a 5% wage increase... So that would be $21 maybe go
      for $22-24. $24/hr if you are fulltime would be right around $50K.
      Remember although your employeer is being very flexible so be careful
      what you ask for that reason.

      Comment

      • brzina :)

        #4
        Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

        On 8 Aug 2005 15:14:24 -0700, reciprocity85@g mail.com wrote:
        [color=blue]
        > That said, know that I am currently in a salaried position, 24 hours
        > (effectively 3 days) per week, at $20 per hour.[/color]

        Now I'm depressed :(

        I'm 19 years old (born on July, 29. 1986), just finished highschool, got
        into informatics college(17th from 120 on the rank list), an official Mensa
        member with an IQ > 172, started programming 4 years ago...

        ....I've been working for 2 years now for a firm which makes web sites, cd
        postcards and all sorts of other multimedia. I've started as a part time
        intern programer, and today I'm the lead web programmer(3 other older
        programmers are in my command) with excelent knowledge of php, javascript,
        xhtml, css, actionscript and mysql. I also know my way around c, c++, c#,
        vb6, vb.net and asp but don't use it on a daily basis. Working for this
        firm I have developed a commercial cms(based on lamp, supports templates,
        modules, multiple languages, frontend style administration, built in
        wysiwyg editor...) which I've used to develop ~15 sites so far this year,
        and ~20 sites last year. I have also developed a simple web based resources
        planing system for our internal needs which is used daily by every single
        employe, and have helped programming a couple of cd postcards when the guys
        in charge of action script encoutered some problems that they couldn't
        solve.

        And know to explain why I'm depressed: I live in Croatia, my boss is one of
        those that don't care about the employes much and even worse doesn't pay
        much, I work ~6h a day(most of the time even saturdays and sundays) + I go
        to school(on the fall college)...

        Now guess how much do I earn?
        Somewhere between 850 and 900$ per a month!!! :((
        (Croatian averege is 600 - 700$)

        And plus, by the law, beacause I still go to school/college I can't be a
        reqular employee so they are paying me over a schoolarship which means that
        they get benefits from the state, they don't have to pay my healt insurance
        and all the other things that they would normally have to...

        This is why life sucks if you live in Croatia and are not rich so you have
        to work, even if highly underpaid, in order to be able to pay for your
        education.

        And then you ask yourselfs why outsourcing is so popular!

        Comment

        • Andrew DeFaria

          #5
          Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

          reciprocity85@g mail.com wrote:
          [color=blue]
          > That said, know that I am currently in a salaried position, 24 hours
          > (effectively 3 days) per week, at $20 per hour. I don't feel like I'm
          > being exploited in any way;[/color]

          Living in Laguna Hills on $40K/year you sure would be being exploited.
          However you say you are working 72 hour work weeks. @ $20/hour that's
          $72K/year.

          Many companies would give you flexibility if you want. Hell you can
          always do contracting and get gigs where you only bill the hours you
          work and then the flexibility is totally up to you - provided your
          getting the assignments done.

          Let me know if you wish to move up to a whopping $30/hour as I'm sure I
          could place you for around $50/hour - hey I'm only taking $20/hour for
          every hour you bill - I'm not greedy... ;-)

          Remember 3*24 = 72 hour weeks or 3600 hours/year. @ $30/hour you'd be
          making $108K (And I'd be pocketing $72K just for playing you!).

          Moral here - if you are any good at what you do you can definitely make
          better money that you are getting right now. It's nice to have good
          people to work with but they exist in other jobs. Many places are
          flexible WRT people working odd hours or days. Besides, I'd rather have
          the money.

          As for Croatian there's just no comparison but if you want a sample of
          the difference an average 2 bedroom condo down in SoCal will run up
          upwards of $500-600K. What's a 2 bedroom flat go for there (or whatever
          is considered average living quarters for a small family)?
          --
          SENILE.COM found . . . Out Of Memory . . .

          Comment

          • Chung Leong

            #6
            Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

            There's reasonable, and then there is what the market will pay. Twenty
            dollar a hour isn't a whole lot in California, but that's pretty much
            the going rate for a junior programmer position. I have seen companies
            advertise "internship " position for fifteen even. Since earning in IT
            depends so much on work experience, applicants probably weren't
            lacking.

            Increase of asking for a raise, it might be more prudent to seek extra
            hours.

            Comment

            • Andrew DeFaria

              #7
              Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

              Chung Leong wrote:
              [color=blue]
              > There's reasonable, and then there is what the market will pay.[/color]

              Then there's just plain unreasonable like the following during the
              height of the dot com bust:

              [color=blue]
              > Twenty dollar a hour isn't a whole lot in California,[/color]

              $20/hour might be a whole lot in say Modoc County but not in Orange County.
              [color=blue]
              > but that's pretty much the going rate for a junior programmer
              > position. I have seen companies advertise "internship " position for
              > fifteen even. Since earning in IT depends so much on work experience,
              > applicants probably weren't
              > lacking.
              >
              > Increase of asking for a raise, it might be more prudent to seek extra
              > hours.[/color]


              --
              Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them.

              Comment

              • brzina :)

                #8
                Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

                On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:53:47 GMT, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
                [color=blue]
                > As for Croatian there's just no comparison but if you want a sample of
                > the difference an average 2 bedroom condo down in SoCal will run up
                > upwards of $500-600K. What's a 2 bedroom flat go for there (or whatever
                > is considered average living quarters for a small family)?[/color]

                The minimum monthly rent for a 2 bedroom flat(~60 square meters) is around
                250$, and the prices for buying are > $200K...

                Comment

                • Erwin Moller

                  #9
                  Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

                  brzina :) wrote:

                  Hi Brzina,


                  I think you are even expensive compared to India-wages. :-)

                  Anyway, do you think you can hire a room in CA-area for your monthly salary?
                  Life seems to be very expensive over there..
                  So the salaries are not as high as they may sound to you.

                  Some friendly careeradvise:
                  - Finish school first!
                  - Maybe get involved in some international project (maybe via
                  www.sourceforge.org) to get a name and proof your capablities.
                  - Make a good CV.
                  - Master english (but I have the impression that you already did that)

                  After that: Stay or leave.
                  - Croatia is member of EU, so expect things to improve (slowly of course)
                  - Try to get some job in Germany or Holland or some other rich b@stard
                  country..
                  If you are really good, they do not want to see you leaving. :-)
                  The hard part is of course getting chance.

                  I know a Russian guy here in Holland who gets paid like 150 euro an hour.
                  He is some Javaguru. But he started with nothing too.
                  So stay optimistic brzina!

                  Regards,
                  Erwin Moller

                  Comment

                  • brzina :)

                    #10
                    Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

                    On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:35:31 +0200, Erwin Moller wrote:
                    [color=blue]
                    > Anyway, do you think you can hire a room in CA-area for your monthly salary?
                    > Life seems to be very expensive over there..
                    > So the salaries are not as high as they may sound to you.
                    >
                    > Some friendly careeradvise:
                    > - Finish school first![/color]

                    no problem there :)
                    [color=blue]
                    > - Maybe get involved in some international project (maybe via
                    > www.sourceforge.org) to get a name and proof your capablities.[/color]

                    don't have the free time needed to do something like that :(
                    [color=blue]
                    > - Make a good CV.[/color]

                    working on it :)
                    [color=blue]
                    > - Master english (but I have the impression that you already did that)[/color]

                    trying to :)
                    [color=blue]
                    > After that: Stay or leave.[/color]

                    I would much rather stay here :)
                    [color=blue]
                    > - Croatia is member of EU, so expect things to improve (slowly of course)[/color]

                    no, we still aren't :(
                    [color=blue]
                    > - Try to get some job in Germany or Holland or some other rich b@stard
                    > country..[/color]

                    Germany isn't what it used to be - they are financialy degrading...
                    [color=blue]
                    > If you are really good, they do not want to see you leaving. :-)
                    > The hard part is of course getting chance.[/color]

                    hope to become that good :)
                    [color=blue]
                    > I know a Russian guy here in Holland who gets paid like 150 euro an hour.
                    > He is some Javaguru. But he started with nothing too.
                    > So stay optimistic brzina![/color]

                    I will Erwin, thx for the advices.

                    Regards,
                    Mario

                    Comment

                    • Chung Leong

                      #11
                      Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

                      Andrew DeFaria wrote:[color=blue]
                      > Chung Leong wrote:
                      >[color=green]
                      > > There's reasonable, and then there is what the market will pay.[/color]
                      >
                      > Then there's just plain unreasonable like the following during the
                      > height of the dot com bust:
                      > https://defaria.com/blogs/General/archives/000099.html
                      >[color=green]
                      > > Twenty dollar a hour isn't a whole lot in California,[/color][/color]

                      Twelve bucks an hour? Holy crap! I bet you someone actually took it
                      though. The job market was that bad in California.
                      [color=blue]
                      > $20/hour might be a whole lot in say Modoc County but not in Orange County.[/color]

                      It's even less in the San Francisco Bay Area. That's why I packed up
                      and left for the nation's capital.

                      Comment

                      • Chung Leong

                        #12
                        Re: Going rate/salary for PHP programming?

                        > > - Try to get some job in Germany or Holland or some other rich b@stard[color=blue][color=green]
                        > > country..[/color]
                        >
                        > Germany isn't what it used to be - they are financialy degrading...[/color]

                        Yeah, and jobs there are starting to flow across the border into
                        Poland. 4000zl (~1000 euro) is a pretty good salary there. When
                        restrictions on cross-border competition are fully lifted, we're going
                        to see IT salary nose-diving all across Western Europe.

                        Comment

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