defined() confusion

[Chris]

This seems inconsistent:


#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

my @y;
if(!defined(@y) )
{
print "y undefined\n";
}

my $z = scalar(@y);
if(!defined($z) )
{
print "z undefined\n";
}

if(!defined(sca lar(@y)))
{
print "scalar(\@y ) not defined\n";
}



This prints

y undefined
scalar(@y) not defined

So, the question is, why does

my $z = scalar(@y);
if(!defined($z) )

behave differently from

if(!defined(sca lar(@y)))

???

Thanks,
Chris

[Alex Zeng]

Re: defined() confusion

When the value is assgined to a variable, it is upgraded, which explain the
outcome.

When a variable is created, it has a undef value. It is not "", not 0, not
(), but undef. When assiging the undef value to another variable, perl pick
the upgrade according to the context, therefore,
-------------
my @y,
if (@y) {
}
@y will be intepreted as 0 instead of undef, a upgrade undef => 0 happens
since the context asks for a boolean

my $z = scalar(@y);
Here z is assigned an upgraded version of the value, that would be "" or 0.
------------

Hope this answers your question

"Chris" <bit_bucket5@ho tmail.com> wrote in message
news:fa7108b0.0 312111014.dbb0a 8b@posting.goog le.com...[color=blue]
> This seems inconsistent:
>
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>
> use strict;
>
> my @y;
> if(!defined(@y) )
> {
> print "y undefined\n";
> }
>
> my $z = scalar(@y);
> if(!defined($z) )
> {
> print "z undefined\n";
> }
>
> if(!defined(sca lar(@y)))
> {
> print "scalar(\@y ) not defined\n";
> }
>
>
>
> This prints
>
> y undefined
> scalar(@y) not defined
>
> So, the question is, why does
>
> my $z = scalar(@y);
> if(!defined($z) )
>
> behave differently from
>
> if(!defined(sca lar(@y)))
>
> ???
>
> Thanks,
> Chris[/color]

[nobull@mail.com]

Re: defined() confusion

bit_bucket5@hot mail.com (Chris) wrote in message news:<fa7108b0. 0312111014.dbb0 a8b@posting.goo gle.com>...[color=blue]
> This seems inconsistent:[/color]

It is.[color=blue]
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>
> use strict;
>
> my @y;
> if(!defined(@y) )[/color]

defined() applied to agregate types does not tell you anything useful
to a Perl programmer. (What it actually tells you is if an AV has been
assigned. This may be of interest to a perl programmer but is of no
interest to a Perl programmer).
[color=blue]
> So, the question is, why does
>
> my $z = scalar(@y);
> if(!defined($z) )
>
> behave differently from
>
> if(!defined(sca lar(@y)))[/color]

The handling of the scalar() function by the compiler is rather odd.
It often gets eleminated from the parse-tree in situations where it
doesn't do anything. Sometimes however the complier is over zealous
and eleiminates it in places where it doesn't do anything useful but
should, by rights, do something. This can lead to a number of odd
effects (including that above).

Obiously if the compiler were fixed and scalar() was not eliminated
the defined(scalar( @y)) would always be true so there's not much
insentive to fix this bug.

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