Oracle to double hiring of Indians

[Sub]

Oracle to double hiring of Indians
Correspondents in New Delhi
July 11, 2003

ORACLE's chairman Larry Ellison said the company will more than double
the number of software engineers it employs in India to more than
6000.

He added Thursday that Oracle's Indian arm already has one of the
biggest number of software engineers in its worldwide operations,
adding that the skill level base for information technology is
constantly growing.

[niniama]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

subrown@start.c om.au (Sub) wrote in message news:<3ebc0b79. 0307120233.6b30 ff5e@posting.go ogle.com>...

Oracle to double hiring of Indians
Correspondents in New Delhi
July 11, 2003
>
ORACLE's chairman Larry Ellison said the company will more than double
the number of software engineers it employs in India to more than
6000.
>
He added Thursday that Oracle's Indian arm already has one of the
biggest number of software engineers in its worldwide operations,
adding that the skill level base for information technology is
constantly growing.

Yes, no wonder ORCL is a dead stock as compare to others!

[sybrandb@yahoo.com]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

coldrainandsnow @lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message news:<7610580f. 0307120937.21ba 3ed6@posting.go ogle.com>...

Yes, this is most wonderful news.
>
Because Indians work for one-forth the cost of UK people, I hope to
see Indians take a much larger share of Oracle jobs for companies
across the world.
>
Oracle DBA people can work remotely from Bangalore, saving Oracle
customers billions of pounds in labour costs.

A most annoying development. Indian people employed by Oracle have
learned to follow a script, instead of learning to think, and their
lack of politeness is appalling.
The dire consequences will be seen soon.
I don't hope to see Oracle support being taken over by trained
monkeys.

Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

[Sub]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message news:<a1d154f4. 0307132348.3860 0290@posting.go ogle.com>...

coldrainandsnow @lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message news:<7610580f. 0307120937.21ba 3ed6@posting.go ogle.com>...

Yes, this is most wonderful news.

Because Indians work for one-forth the cost of UK people, I hope to
see Indians take a much larger share of Oracle jobs for companies
across the world.

Oracle DBA people can work remotely from Bangalore, saving Oracle
customers billions of pounds in labour costs.

>
A most annoying development. Indian people employed by Oracle have
learned to follow a script, instead of learning to think, and their
lack of politeness is appalling.
The dire consequences will be seen soon.
I don't hope to see Oracle support being taken over by trained
monkeys.
>
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

I think India has one of the most gracious and competent people in the
world. What makes you think that they're not so?

[jason]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

Sour grapes......whi ne on.

The market for snobbish white-skinned jerks like you is dead.





sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message

Practical experience. Calling me with my last name only has to be
considered rude, and just ignoring the customer considers the
experienced behavior of Oracle as a bug is definitely
customer-unfriendly. As the experienced behavior was connecting to an
incorrect instance due to incorrect configuration for the MTS
parameters, and it was not apparent from the docs the configuration
was incorect, and the rep didn't want to do anything about it, the
whole experience was most annoying.
My own experience in other companies with Indians is also, that
anything which is written down in a book must be the ultimate truth.
So usually you have a hard time convincing them they are wrong, and
they can be quite stubborn.
I don't share your judgement with respect to their competencey, I'd
rather don't want to work with Indians again.
As far as I am concerned this is a bad move (tm) which Oracle is going
to pay for.
>
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

[Bababobo]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

I share your experiences. In the past, during the Y2K boom, you could
find the Indians all over the globe, with mainly fake resumes and
'countrymen buddies' helping them; brother became dba, after that even
father and 3 sisters followed to become 'sudden' senior-dba's, etc...
you know. I have met 'professionals' who were completely, and I mean
really dumbass, unaware of practical lifetime situations. They did
everything to get out of their miserable country, even if it means
lying and cheating...

On the other hand; some are excellent. So dont blame them all. Its
just that there are too many of them, and many of them LIE and cannot
be trusted.

Remember: same miserable thing happened with Baan company. Complete
dumbass indians jumped into the ship with fake resumes. See what
happened with that company! If Oracle is doing the same, it will end
sooner or later with angry customers, and dropping sharevalues, unless
Oracle has strong quality control. Lets hope for the latter.

sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message news:<a1d154f4. 0307142339.4fff 515f@posting.go ogle.com>...

subrown@start.c om.au (Sub) wrote in message news:<3ebc0b79. 0307141815.49f3 1faf@posting.go ogle.com>...

sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message news:<a1d154f4. 0307132348.3860 0290@posting.go ogle.com>...

coldrainandsnow @lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message news:<7610580f. 0307120937.21ba 3ed6@posting.go ogle.com>...
Yes, this is most wonderful news.

Because Indians work for one-forth the cost of UK people, I hope to
see Indians take a much larger share of Oracle jobs for companies
across the world.

Oracle DBA people can work remotely from Bangalore, saving Oracle
customers billions of pounds in labour costs.
>
A most annoying development. Indian people employed by Oracle have
learned to follow a script, instead of learning to think, and their
lack of politeness is appalling.
The dire consequences will be seen soon.
I don't hope to see Oracle support being taken over by trained
monkeys.
>
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

I think India has one of the most gracious and competent people in the
world. What makes you think that they're not so?

>
>
Practical experience. Calling me with my last name only has to be
considered rude, and just ignoring the customer considers the
experienced behavior of Oracle as a bug is definitely
customer-unfriendly. As the experienced behavior was connecting to an
incorrect instance due to incorrect configuration for the MTS
parameters, and it was not apparent from the docs the configuration
was incorect, and the rep didn't want to do anything about it, the
whole experience was most annoying.
My own experience in other companies with Indians is also, that
anything which is written down in a book must be the ultimate truth.
So usually you have a hard time convincing them they are wrong, and
they can be quite stubborn.
I don't share your judgement with respect to their competencey, I'd
rather don't want to work with Indians again.
As far as I am concerned this is a bad move (tm) which Oracle is going
to pay for.
>
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

[Nuno Souto]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

jason_goodenoug h@yahoo.com (jason) wrote in message news:<b6bf0384. 0307150706.4bbe 5746@posting.go ogle.com>...

Sour grapes......whi ne on.
>
The market for snobbish white-skinned jerks like you is dead.
>
>

this must be one of those race things...

[Geomancer]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

Yes, fake credentials are a real problem.

I have seen lots with phoney Masters Degrees, and they rely on the
fact that the HR folks cannot verify them.

I know a fella in Jersey who was training the Indian's wives as Oracle
DBAs.

Half could not read or write their own language, and were totally
clueless.

[Jim Kennedy]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians


--
"Bababobo" <bababobo@bangk ok.comwrote in message
news:77d31c3a.0 307150821.53289 607@posting.goo gle.com...

I share your experiences. In the past, during the Y2K boom, you could
find the Indians all over the globe, with mainly fake resumes and
'countrymen buddies' helping them; brother became dba, after that even
father and 3 sisters followed to become 'sudden' senior-dba's, etc...
you know. I have met 'professionals' who were completely, and I mean
really dumbass, unaware of practical lifetime situations. They did
everything to get out of their miserable country, even if it means
lying and cheating...
>
On the other hand; some are excellent. So dont blame them all. Its
just that there are too many of them, and many of them LIE and cannot
be trusted.
>
Remember: same miserable thing happened with Baan company. Complete
dumbass indians jumped into the ship with fake resumes. See what
happened with that company! If Oracle is doing the same, it will end
sooner or later with angry customers, and dropping sharevalues, unless
Oracle has strong quality control. Lets hope for the latter.
>
sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message

news:<a1d154f4. 0307142339.4fff 515f@posting.go ogle.com>...

subrown@start.c om.au (Sub) wrote in message

news:<3ebc0b79. 0307141815.49f3 1faf@posting.go ogle.com>...

sybrandb@yahoo. com wrote in message

news:<a1d154f4. 0307132348.3860 0290@posting.go ogle.com>...

coldrainandsnow @lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message

news:<7610580f. 0307120937.21ba 3ed6@posting.go ogle.com>...

Yes, this is most wonderful news.
>
Because Indians work for one-forth the cost of UK people, I hope

to

see Indians take a much larger share of Oracle jobs for companies
across the world.
>
Oracle DBA people can work remotely from Bangalore, saving Oracle
customers billions of pounds in labour costs.

A most annoying development. Indian people employed by Oracle have
learned to follow a script, instead of learning to think, and their
lack of politeness is appalling.
The dire consequences will be seen soon.
I don't hope to see Oracle support being taken over by trained
monkeys.

Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA
>
I think India has one of the most gracious and competent people in the
world. What makes you think that they're not so?

Practical experience. Calling me with my last name only has to be
considered rude, and just ignoring the customer considers the
experienced behavior of Oracle as a bug is definitely
customer-unfriendly. As the experienced behavior was connecting to an
incorrect instance due to incorrect configuration for the MTS
parameters, and it was not apparent from the docs the configuration
was incorect, and the rep didn't want to do anything about it, the
whole experience was most annoying.
My own experience in other companies with Indians is also, that
anything which is written down in a book must be the ultimate truth.
So usually you have a hard time convincing them they are wrong, and
they can be quite stubborn.
I don't share your judgement with respect to their competencey, I'd
rather don't want to work with Indians again.
As far as I am concerned this is a bad move (tm) which Oracle is going
to pay for.

Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

I agree with you such companies as Intel are doing this and shipping a lot
of jobs over to India, China, and Russia.(so they can close plants in Oregon
etc for "cheaper" plants in India. There is a whole new set of BUZZ words
(something like capability maturity model or some such thing.) to "support"
this.(written by a gentleman of Indian extraction) Basically, it is
documenting all the things in a system or a set of work so some monkey with
a modicum of intelligence could supposedly do the job. (by monkey I mean
someone unfamiliar with the system and low paid - so before someone thinks I
am making a racist comment let me assure you it has nothing to do with
race.) The fallacy is that
1. Systems usually are not documented that well no matter how hard one
tries.
2. If it is "documented " the document is immediately out of date as soon as
some change occurs.
3. If the system does not change then it quickly loses its value.
4. The documentation cannot really be used as a replacement for 1st
principals. In mathematics it is what we call "plug and chug". That is I
plug in the parameters and solve for X. The problem is that in the real
world you have to know first principals to pick the right equation for the
right task and sometimes you need to generate your own equation from, you
guessed it, first principals.
5. The little nuances of development are lost by being 11.5 hours and a day
different. Only so much can happen in email and in conference calls.
6. Differences in culture and language. These are many and have nothing to
do with intelligence. These are what are never on the bean counters list of
cons. Why? Because to bean counters people are pluggable modules. (maybe
we should get rid of all the native bean counters and just use Indian or
Chinese ones? Hmmm, that's an idea.)

Jim

[Nuno Souto]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

coldrainandsnow @lycos.com (Jitendra Patel) wrote in message news:<7610580f. 0307160520.610f d40f@posting.go ogle.com>...

>
Oracle "experts" from many lesser countries, (UK, Australia, Portugal)
are also flooding the market with cheap Oracle "talent".

You're obsessing again. Did you take the medication
this morning?

>
Indians may not speak good English, but they are sometoimes superior
to these other countries offers.

The key word is "sometimes" .

[Nuno Souto]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians

"Jim Kennedy" <kennedy-down_with_spamm ers@no_spam.com cast.netwrote in message news:<R94Ra.750 16$H17.22125@sc crnsc02>...

of jobs over to India, China, and Russia.(so they can close plants in Oregon
etc for "cheaper" plants in India. There is a whole new set of BUZZ words
(something like capability maturity model or some such thing.) to "support"
this.(written by a gentleman of Indian extraction) Basically, it is

I wonder why it was written by that person...
In one of the last TIME magazine issues, there is a full length
article on the perils of manufacturing anything in these countries.
It deals mostly with golf clubs made in China and the subsequent
piracy of designs and products. But it applies to everything.
Worth a read.

cons. Why? Because to bean counters people are pluggable modules. (maybe
we should get rid of all the native bean counters and just use Indian or
Chinese ones? Hmmm, that's an idea.)

Long overdue. I fail to understand how IT has to be "rationaliz ed"
and the accounting groups on the contrary have to expand? Must be
the "efficienci es" of using SAP software...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
wizofoz2k@yahoo .com.au.nospam

[Jim Kennedy]

Re: Oracle to double hiring of Indians



"Nuno Souto" <wizofoz2k@yaho o.com.auwrote in message
news:73e20c6c.0 307161547.f6eb9 ea@posting.goog le.com...

"Jim Kennedy" <kennedy-down_with_spamm ers@no_spam.com cast.netwrote in

message news:<R94Ra.750 16$H17.22125@sc crnsc02>...

>

of jobs over to India, China, and Russia.(so they can close plants in

Oregon

etc for "cheaper" plants in India. There is a whole new set of BUZZ

words

(something like capability maturity model or some such thing.) to

"support"

this.(written by a gentleman of Indian extraction) Basically, it is

>
I wonder why it was written by that person...
In one of the last TIME magazine issues, there is a full length
article on the perils of manufacturing anything in these countries.
It deals mostly with golf clubs made in China and the subsequent
piracy of designs and products. But it applies to everything.
Worth a read.
>

cons. Why? Because to bean counters people are pluggable modules.

(maybe

we should get rid of all the native bean counters and just use Indian or
Chinese ones? Hmmm, that's an idea.)

>
Long overdue. I fail to understand how IT has to be "rationaliz ed"
and the accounting groups on the contrary have to expand? Must be
the "efficienci es" of using SAP software...
>
Cheers
Nuno Souto
wizofoz2k@yahoo .com.au.nospam

Nuno,
Agreed. A friend of mine worked for SUN on their largest servers. (these
things start at 5 figures and have a hefty profit margin) These servers are
tested and made sure that they meet high availibility standards and then
some bean counter gets them to replace some $50 boards (made domesticly
under strict quality control - and no problems with them) with a board made
in China that is now $30 cost, but is not as reliable. What stupid savings!
(on a machine that starts at 5 figures and has a healthy profit margin) Now
that's what you call penny wise and pound foolish!

In addition to the SAP observation the bean counters are holding a lot of
purse strings.

Jim