Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

**Mark Townsend** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
> want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
> jobs.
>[/color]

Two things

1) This WILL end in a flame war.
2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
on starting this at least use the right targets -
comp.databases. oracle.server

**DA Morgan** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino wrote:[color=blue]
> One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
> newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
> how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.
>
> Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
> understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with DB2
> but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons for
> him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
> choose or recommend a database to his clients.
>
> Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information produced
> by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
> DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their views on
> two questions:
>
> 1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and Oracle?
>
> 2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to help
> someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?
>
> This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
> want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
> jobs.[/color]

DB2 consists of two letters and one integer and Oracle consists of 6
letters and no integers.

This is not the first time you have tried to start a flame war and your
previous attempt is logged in my database.

Please take your pathetic attempts to some other group. Perhaps
alt.bored.troll .
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

**DA Morgan** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino wrote:
[color=blue]
> One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
> newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
> how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.
>
> Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
> understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with DB2
> but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons for
> him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
> choose or recommend a database to his clients.
>
> Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information produced
> by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
> DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their views on
> two questions:
>
> 1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and Oracle?
>
> 2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to help
> someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?
>
> This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
> want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
> jobs.[/color]

I have logged your previous attempts to start a flame war and no one
with an IQ over room temperature is going to fall for this one either.

Take your wasted life to alt.bored.troll s and post there.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)

**michael newport** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

tell your friend Scott that he should stop wasting his time with DB2 and Oracle.

Use Ingres instead, it does the same stuff as the other 2, but its FREE.

Regards
Michael Newport

**Rhino** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

"Mark Townsend" <markbtownsend@ comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4172BFFA.7 0603@comcast.ne t...[color=blue]
> Rhino wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> > This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
> > want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
> > jobs.
> >[/color]
>
> Two things
>
> 1) This WILL end in a flame war.[/color]

So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful answer
rather than in flames?
[color=blue]
> 2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
> on starting this at least use the right targets -
> comp.databases. oracle.server[/color]

Thank you! As I said in my original post, I've never used Oracle so I didn't
know that comp.databases. oracle was defunct. It had a few recent on-topic
posts in it and I had no idea what its normal activity level is so I tried
that one. I'll repost to the correct newsgroup now that I know what it is.

Rhino

**Rhino** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

"DA Morgan" <damorgan@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message
news:417323F9.5 040605@x.washin gton.edu...[color=blue]
> Rhino wrote:[color=green]
> > One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
> > newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling[/color][/color]
him[color=blue][color=green]
> > how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.
> >
> > Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
> > understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with[/color][/color]
DB2[color=blue][color=green]
> > but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons[/color][/color]
for[color=blue][color=green]
> > him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
> > choose or recommend a database to his clients.
> >
> > Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information[/color][/color]
produced[color=blue][color=green]
> > by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
> > DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their views[/color][/color]
on[color=blue][color=green]
> > two questions:
> >
> > 1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and Oracle?
> >
> > 2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to help
> > someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?
> >
> > This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
> > want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
> > jobs.[/color]
>
> DB2 consists of two letters and one integer and Oracle consists of 6
> letters and no integers.
>
> This is not the first time you have tried to start a flame war and your
> previous attempt is logged in my database.
>[/color]
Please name another time I've tried to start a flame war. If you look in
comp.databases. ibm-db2 you'll find that I am usually a responder to people's
questions and usually only start my own posts when I have a technical of my
own. If you look in comp.databases. oracle you'll find that I've never posted
there before because, as I said, I am not familiar with Oracle.

Can you suggest a better way to ask my question? I am trying to figure out
how someone having to choose between Oracle and DB2 would choose one over
the other. Surely that is a legitimate question that many people have had to
answer.

Rhino

**Larry E** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino,

Frankly, if your friend Scott is a person who doesn't have a db
background, he is not going to be able to understand any technical
differentiators that are brought forth here (and their significance).

Secondly, when you post and ask such questions here ... all you are
going to get are people's opinions ... some very biased opinions. This
stuff is almost religious to some people. The best thing that Scott can
do is to:

- fully understand his customer's requirements from a business and
technology perspective
- tap into someone like Gartner, Mega, Giga for independent opinions on
each dbms
- search the tech media for any reviews of each product
- call upon his local Oracle and IBM reps to bring whatever they can to
the table

By the time he gets done here, his head is going to be spinning and he
will be asking "so who is right and who do I listen to?"

Larry Edelstein

Rhino wrote:[color=blue]
> "Mark Townsend" <markbtownsend@ comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4172BFFA.7 0603@comcast.ne t...
>[color=green]
>>Rhino wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
>>>want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
>>>jobs.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>Two things
>>
>>1) This WILL end in a flame war.[/color]
>
>
> So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful answer
> rather than in flames?
>
>[color=green]
>>2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
>>on starting this at least use the right targets -
>>comp.database s.oracle.server[/color]
>
>
> Thank you! As I said in my original post, I've never used Oracle so I didn't
> know that comp.databases. oracle was defunct. It had a few recent on-topic
> posts in it and I had no idea what its normal activity level is so I tried
> that one. I'll repost to the correct newsgroup now that I know what it is.
>
> Rhino
>
>[/color]

**Mark Townsend** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>
> So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful answer
> rather than in flames?
>
>[/color]

You can't - the exercise as you have it is a little facile. As a
suggestion, why not recommend a process to your friend, rather than just
an outcome. For instance

1) Work out what criteria are most important for you, for the given
situation (for instance, how you evaluate software depends on what you
want to use the software for, and databases can be used for many things
- from simple data management, to high end OLTP, to very, very large
Data Warehouse environments, and even more lately, to Content
Management). Other options such as price, support, market support,
platforms availability etc may also be relevant.

2) Evaluate the different offerings against this criteria. This may
require that you research the product's web site, read the doc, perhaps
even download and try. Definitely talk to each vendors sales
representatives - typically try to get to the more technical sales
consultants. As you go, use the newsgroup to validate your understanding
of what each offering does and does not do, and what you may have been told.

3) When you come up with a potential best candidate, validate your
decision. Seek references that best match your criteria. Talk to the
technical people in each reference account. Also ask to talk to the
users in each reference account (the two are often at odds as to what is
actually happening).

4) Then choose Oracle :-)

**Rhino** · Jul 19 '05, 10:16 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

"michael newport" <michaelnewport @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:63b202d.04 10180308.274b95 16@posting.goog le.com...[color=blue]
> tell your friend Scott that he should stop wasting his time with DB2 and[/color]
Oracle.[color=blue]
>
> Use Ingres instead, it does the same stuff as the other 2, but its FREE.
>[/color]
Thank you, that is also a useful answer.

But is cost the only reason you are recommending Ingres or does it do more
things better than Oracle and DB2? I haven't used Ingres either so I have no
idea. I'm pretty sure Scott has not used it either.

Rhino

**Rhino** · Jul 19 '05, 10:17 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

"Larry E" <larry@nospam.n et> wrote in message
news:WtQcd.4328 $YM4.1347973@ne ws4.srv.hcvlny. cv.net...[color=blue]
> Rhino,
>
> Frankly, if your friend Scott is a person who doesn't have a db
> background, he is not going to be able to understand any technical
> differentiators that are brought forth here (and their significance).
>[/color]
Excellent point. I was expecting to help him a bit with that part of his
search.
[color=blue]
> Secondly, when you post and ask such questions here ... all you are
> going to get are people's opinions ... some very biased opinions.[/color]

That's why I was hoping to hear from people who had used both Oracle and DB2
but weren't employees (or resellers) of either of them. The marketing
information by the vendor always tends to be skewed in some way that is
favourable to the vendor but not necessarily a fair way.
[color=blue]
> This
> stuff is almost religious to some people.[/color]

That's why I mentioned that I was not trying to start a flame war. Still, I
was quite prepared to ignore obvious zealotry on behalf of one product or
the other.
[color=blue]
> The best thing that Scott can
> do is to:
>
> - fully understand his customer's requirements from a business and
> technology perspective
> - tap into someone like Gartner, Mega, Giga for independent opinions on
> each dbms[/color]

There you go; you've just answered Question 2 in my original post. I'm
familiar with Gartner and can probably find a website for them but I'm not
familiar with Mega or Giga at all. Can you suggest some URLs or at least
tell me the full names of these companies so that I can start searching? A
Google search on "Mega" is going to give me a gazillion hits ;-)
[color=blue]
> - search the tech media for any reviews of each product[/color]

Who would you consider the most reputable of the tech media with respect to
this sort of question, database comparisons?
[color=blue]
> - call upon his local Oracle and IBM reps to bring whatever they can to
> the table
>[/color]
Absolutely; I had every intention of suggesting that to him but only AFTER
he had done his research FIRST.
[color=blue]
> By the time he gets done here, his head is going to be spinning and he
> will be asking "so who is right and who do I listen to?"
>[/color]

Yeah, I know, that's how it always seems to go with these things. No matter
how dilligently you look at the options, there is always a load of bias and
hype to weed through before you get to something that appears to be
objective truth.

Rhino[color=blue]
>
> Rhino wrote:[color=green]
> > "Mark Townsend" <markbtownsend@ comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:4172BFFA.7 0603@comcast.ne t...
> >[color=darkred]
> >>Rhino wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott[/color][/color][/color]
just[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at[/color][/color][/color]
which[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>jobs.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Two things
> >>
> >>1) This WILL end in a flame war.[/color]
> >
> >
> > So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful[/color][/color]
answer[color=blue][color=green]
> > rather than in flames?
> >
> >[color=darkred]
> >>2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
> >>on starting this at least use the right targets -
> >>comp.database s.oracle.server[/color]
> >
> >
> > Thank you! As I said in my original post, I've never used Oracle so I[/color][/color]
didn't[color=blue][color=green]
> > know that comp.databases. oracle was defunct. It had a few recent[/color][/color]
on-topic[color=blue][color=green]
> > posts in it and I had no idea what its normal activity level is so I[/color][/color]
tried[color=blue][color=green]
> > that one. I'll repost to the correct newsgroup now that I know what it[/color][/color]
is.[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > Rhino
> >
> >[/color]
>[/color]

**Rhino** · Jul 19 '05, 10:17 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

"Mark Townsend" <markbtownsend@ comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZYQcd.2626 40$MQ5.163157@a ttbi_s52...[color=blue]
> Rhino wrote:
>[color=green]
> >
> >
> > So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful[/color][/color]
answer[color=blue][color=green]
> > rather than in flames?
> >
> >[/color]
>
> You can't - the exercise as you have it is a little facile. As a
> suggestion, why not recommend a process to your friend, rather than just
> an outcome. For instance
>
> 1) Work out what criteria are most important for you, for the given
> situation (for instance, how you evaluate software depends on what you
> want to use the software for, and databases can be used for many things
> - from simple data management, to high end OLTP, to very, very large
> Data Warehouse environments, and even more lately, to Content
> Management). Other options such as price, support, market support,
> platforms availability etc may also be relevant.
>
> 2) Evaluate the different offerings against this criteria. This may
> require that you research the product's web site, read the doc, perhaps
> even download and try. Definitely talk to each vendors sales
> representatives - typically try to get to the more technical sales
> consultants. As you go, use the newsgroup to validate your understanding
> of what each offering does and does not do, and what you may have been[/color]
told.[color=blue]
>
> 3) When you come up with a potential best candidate, validate your
> decision. Seek references that best match your criteria. Talk to the
> technical people in each reference account. Also ask to talk to the
> users in each reference account (the two are often at odds as to what is
> actually happening).
>
> 4) Then choose Oracle :-)
>[/color]
Thank you! Those are all excellent suggestions. (I'm ignoring your 4th
suggestion due to the obvious bias ;-)

Rhino

**Hans Forbrich** · Jul 19 '05, 10:17 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Mark Townsend wrote:
[color=blue]
> Rhino wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>> This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
>> want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
>> jobs.
>>[/color]
>
> Two things
>
> 1) This WILL end in a flame war.[/color]

I agree Mark. This discussion, in a public forum such as these lists, will
attract the strong supporters and will invariably devolve to a religious
discussion.

First step should be to develop a set of business requirements. Then ask
experts to explain how each product under consideration will satisfy the
requirements.

Then decide based on who you trust! Ultimately both products, as well as
some open source (or soon to be open source - sic), will satisfy many
business requirements.

<Now my religious rant ...>

Don't let anyone tell you that Oracle is the most expensive - that myth
comes from people who buy before they think (or have someone else think for
them) and then avoid or are ignorant of what they have bought. And is
encouraged by each and every competitor.

If used properly, and if you don't re-invent the wheel by using built-in
features and capabilities, the difference in long term cost (between
Oracle, DB2, Ingres, MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQL Server, etc.) is very, very
small.

I happen to prefer Oracle because it provides a lot of functionality in the
database at no additional price - functionality that I see required in many
apps such as: workflow, message queueing, replication, subqueries, direct
http request/response capability, security, backup/recovery, admin &
management tools, job scheduler (akin to cron, but inside the DB), DB
initiated callouts to OS shared libraries, DB initiated mail & page, DB
initiated TCP calls, and so on.

These capabilities may exist in other database managers, but if not (or if
the developer doesn't know/understand how to use them in Oracle) these
capabilities will be duplicated. That moves the money from "product price"
to "developmen t cost" in creating the application and the cost of
supporting the application into the hands of the developer instead of the
'vendor'. (You pay for it somehow <g>)

Aside from that, there _are_ a few technical differences ... I'll leave
those to others.

<end rant>
[color=blue]
> 2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
> on starting this at least use the right targets -
> comp.databases. oracle.server[/color]

Copied to comp.databases. oracle.server. Requesting all other threads and
potential replies to this one PLEASE remove cdo and only use cdo.server

Thanks
/Hans

**Larry E** · Jul 19 '05, 10:17 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Rhino wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Larry E" <larry@nospam.n et> wrote in message
> news:WtQcd.4328 $YM4.1347973@ne ws4.srv.hcvlny. cv.net...
>[color=green]
>>Rhino,
>>
>>Frankly, if your friend Scott is a person who doesn't have a db
>>background, he is not going to be able to understand any technical
>>differentiato rs that are brought forth here (and their significance).
>>[/color]
>
> Excellent point. I was expecting to help him a bit with that part of his
> search.
>
>[color=green]
>>Secondly, when you post and ask such questions here ... all you are
>>going to get are people's opinions ... some very biased opinions.[/color]
>
>
> That's why I was hoping to hear from people who had used both Oracle and DB2
> but weren't employees (or resellers) of either of them. The marketing
> information by the vendor always tends to be skewed in some way that is
> favourable to the vendor but not necessarily a fair way.
>
>[color=green]
>>This
>>stuff is almost religious to some people.[/color]
>
>
> That's why I mentioned that I was not trying to start a flame war. Still, I
> was quite prepared to ignore obvious zealotry on behalf of one product or
> the other.
>
>[color=green]
>>The best thing that Scott can
>>do is to:
>>
>>- fully understand his customer's requirements from a business and
>>technology perspective
>>- tap into someone like Gartner, Mega, Giga for independent opinions on
>>each dbms[/color]
>
>
> There you go; you've just answered Question 2 in my original post. I'm
> familiar with Gartner and can probably find a website for them but I'm not
> familiar with Mega or Giga at all. Can you suggest some URLs or at least
> tell me the full names of these companies so that I can start searching? A
> Google search on "Mega" is going to give me a gazillion hits ;-)[/color]

Sorry ... it's "Meta Group" not "Mega". My fault.[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>- search the tech media for any reviews of each product[/color]
>
>
> Who would you consider the most reputable of the tech media with respect to
> this sort of question, database comparisons?[/color]

Perhaps CMP Media. Info Week, EWeek, Computerworld ...
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>>- call upon his local Oracle and IBM reps to bring whatever they can to
>>the table
>>[/color]
>
> Absolutely; I had every intention of suggesting that to him but only AFTER
> he had done his research FIRST.
>
>[color=green]
>>By the time he gets done here, his head is going to be spinning and he
>>will be asking "so who is right and who do I listen to?"
>>[/color]
>
>
> Yeah, I know, that's how it always seems to go with these things. No matter
> how dilligently you look at the options, there is always a load of bias and
> hype to weed through before you get to something that appears to be
> objective truth.[/color]

That's why you're just not gonna get what you're looking for here.
[color=blue]
>
> Rhino
>[color=green]
>>Rhino wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>"Mark Townsend" <markbtownsend@ comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:4172BFF A.70603@comcast .net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rhino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott[/color][/color]
>
> just
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at[/color][/color]
>
> which
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Two things
>>>>
>>>>1) This WILL end in a flame war.
>>>
>>>
>>>So how can I ask this question in a way that will get a meaningful[/color][/color]
>
> answer
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>rather than in flames?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
>>>>on starting this at least use the right targets -
>>>>comp.databa ses.oracle.serv er
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you! As I said in my original post, I've never used Oracle so I[/color][/color]
>
> didn't
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>know that comp.databases. oracle was defunct. It had a few recent[/color][/color]
>
> on-topic
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>posts in it and I had no idea what its normal activity level is so I[/color][/color]
>
> tried
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>that one. I'll repost to the correct newsgroup now that I know what it[/color][/color]
>
> is.
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Rhino
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

**Richard D. Latham** · Jul 19 '05, 10:17 PM

Re: Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

DA Morgan <damorgan@x.was hington.edu> writes:
[color=blue]
> Rhino wrote:[color=green]
>> One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
>> newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
>> how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.
>> Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
>> understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with DB2
>> but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons for
>> him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
>> choose or recommend a database to his clients.
>> Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information
>> produced
>> by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
>> DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their views on
>> two questions:
>> 1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and
>> Oracle?
>> 2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to
>> help
>> someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?
>> This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott
>> just
>> want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
>> jobs.[/color]
>
> DB2 consists of two letters and one integer and Oracle consists of 6
> letters and no integers.
>
> This is not the first time you have tried to start a flame war and your
> previous attempt is logged in my database.
>
> Please take your pathetic attempts to some other group. Perhaps
> alt.bored.troll .[/color]

It says a lot about consulting in the IT industry, that the part where
Scott is a consultant that recommends databases when he doesn't know
anything about databases, actually sounds like the truth. :-)

--
#include <disclaimer.std > /* I don't speak for IBM ... */
/* Heck, I don't even speak for myself */
/* Don't believe me ? Ask my wife :-) */
Richard D. Latham lathamr@us.ibm. com

Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

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