porting from C++Builder

[=?Utf-8?B?ZW1hdmlzdQ==?=]

Dear guys,
I'm in trouble having to port my project from C++Builder6 to VisualC++.
Has anyone of you idea if there are any tools to help my doing this job?
My current project is widely using VCL and these 2 IDE (C++Builder and
VisualC++) seems to be so far each other that I can hardly think to find out
a tool to "automatica lly" perform something for me.
Thank you.

[David Wilkinson]

Re: porting from C++Builder

emavisu wrote:

Dear guys,
I'm in trouble having to port my project from C++Builder6 to VisualC++.
Has anyone of you idea if there are any tools to help my doing this job?
My current project is widely using VCL and these 2 IDE (C++Builder and
VisualC++) seems to be so far each other that I can hardly think to find out
a tool to "automatica lly" perform something for me.
Thank you.
>

emavisu:

Visual C++ is a compiler, not a GUI framework. It is actually a compiler for
three languages: C, C++ and C++/CLI.

If you want to create a GUI program using Visual C++ you have to decide whether
you want a plain Win32 application (using C or C++), MFC application (using
native C++) or a .NET application (using C++/CLI).

The porting issues will be completely different in these three cases. But in
each case, before you start, you should try to separate the core functionality
of your C++Builder6 applications from the GUI part. This core functionality can
then be used in Visual C++.

[If you want to go the .NET route, you might consider whether you want to write
the GUI part of your application in C#, or even rewrite everything in C#.]

--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP

[RFOG]

Re: porting from C++Builder

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:39:01 +0200, emavisu
<emavisu@discus sions.microsoft .comwrote:

Dear guys,
I'm in trouble having to port my project from C++Builder6 to VisualC++.
Has anyone of you idea if there are any tools to help my doing this job?
My current project is widely using VCL and these 2 IDE (C++Builder and
VisualC++) seems to be so far each other that I can hardly think to find
out
a tool to "automatica lly" perform something for me.
Thank you.
>

C++Builder (and Delphi) VCL is not compatible with MFC/.NET in any way.
The only thing to do is continue with Builder or do David Wilkinson has
answered you.

VCL model is near to .NET Windows Forms model (Same person did it), but
completelly incompatible because VCL is built in Pascal and .NET is built
in... er... C# and names and some concepts are different. Then passing
from VCL to .NET is significant easier than pass to MFC (or other C++
framework), but you will find a lot of things that does not work as
expected in .NET that worked in VCL. Plus Windows Forms designer is er..
"easy to crash" and you need to do very bad and uncommon things to crash
VCL form designer.

Both VCL and .NET have the concepts of Event Driven User interface,
passing sender object and event cause to events but all common things
stops here. Concepts are the same, but names are very different.

However you have VCL.NET, an Pascal VCL extensions to use Pascal and VCL
in .NET, but there are none similar in C++ Borland side like Microsoft
C++/CLI.


--
Microsoft Visual C++ MVP
=============== =========
Mi blog sobre programación: http://geeks.ms/blogs/rfog
Momentos Leves: http://momentosleves.blogspot.com/
Cosas mías: http://rfog.blogsome.com/
Libros, ciencia ficción y programación
=============== =============== ==========
La causa de la mujer es la del hombre; los dos se levantan o sucumben
juntos.
-- Alfred Tennyson. (1809-1892) Poeta británico.

[=?Utf-8?B?ZW1hdmlzdQ==?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

THank you for considering my question. I know these possibilities and for
sure I want to use .NET framework. Do you think it is better to use VisualC#?
In this way I cannot reuse my C++ classes. Which can be the benefits instead?

Thanks.
emavisu

"David Wilkinson" wrote:

emavisu wrote:

Dear guys,
I'm in trouble having to port my project from C++Builder6 to VisualC++.
Has anyone of you idea if there are any tools to help my doing this job?
My current project is widely using VCL and these 2 IDE (C++Builder and
VisualC++) seems to be so far each other that I can hardly think to find out
a tool to "automatica lly" perform something for me.
Thank you.

>
emavisu:
>
Visual C++ is a compiler, not a GUI framework. It is actually a compiler for
three languages: C, C++ and C++/CLI.
>
If you want to create a GUI program using Visual C++ you have to decide whether
you want a plain Win32 application (using C or C++), MFC application (using
native C++) or a .NET application (using C++/CLI).
>
The porting issues will be completely different in these three cases. But in
each case, before you start, you should try to separate the core functionality
of your C++Builder6 applications from the GUI part. This core functionality can
then be used in Visual C++.
>
[If you want to go the .NET route, you might consider whether you want to write
the GUI part of your application in C#, or even rewrite everything in C#.]
>
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
>

[David Wilkinson]

Re: porting from C++Builder

emavisu wrote:

THank you for considering my question. I know these possibilities and for
sure I want to use .NET framework. Do you think it is better to use VisualC#?
In this way I cannot reuse my C++ classes. Which can be the benefits instead?

emasivu:

You should be aware that Microsoft is no longer promoting C++/CLI as a language
for .NET GUI applications, just for interfacing to native C++ code. C# is really
recommended for GUI code. You can use it for GUI code, but you may regret it.

You do have legacy C++ code, but it contains VCL code that cannot be used in
Visual C_++. Two possibilities:

1. A complete rewrite in C#

2. Use C++/CLI to wrap your (cleaned) C+ code into C++/CLI classes which can be
consumed by a C# GUI.

--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP

[=?Utf-8?B?ZW1hdmlzdQ==?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

Dear Mr. Wilkinson,
you are confirming my feeling that MS is, as usual, pushing developers in
the direction of working in a complete proprietary solution!

Frankly speaking I think C++Builder and VCL are great tool to work with but
the problem is that you can hardly find people using it (mainly in italy,
whare I live). In this situation, when you need something is nearly
impossible to find out a forum like this one where to chat with someone about
the possible solution for the problem you are facing.
I think this is the main reason why I'm thinking about this migration.

Which is your personal point of view? It seems you are a very experienced
person so your suggestion would be really worthwhile.

Thanks so much.

emavisu


"David Wilkinson" wrote:

emavisu wrote:

THank you for considering my question. I know these possibilities and for
sure I want to use .NET framework. Do you think it is better to use VisualC#?
In this way I cannot reuse my C++ classes. Which can be the benefits instead?

>
emasivu:
>
You should be aware that Microsoft is no longer promoting C++/CLI as a language
for .NET GUI applications, just for interfacing to native C++ code. C# is really
recommended for GUI code. You can use it for GUI code, but you may regret it.
>
You do have legacy C++ code, but it contains VCL code that cannot be used in
Visual C_++. Two possibilities:
>
1. A complete rewrite in C#
>
2. Use C++/CLI to wrap your (cleaned) C+ code into C++/CLI classes which can be
consumed by a C# GUI.
>
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
>

[David Wilkinson]

Re: porting from C++Builder

emavisu wrote:

Dear Mr. Wilkinson,
you are confirming my feeling that MS is, as usual, pushing developers in
the direction of working in a complete proprietary solution!
>
Frankly speaking I think C++Builder and VCL are great tool to work with but
the problem is that you can hardly find people using it (mainly in italy,
whare I live). In this situation, when you need something is nearly
impossible to find out a forum like this one where to chat with someone about
the possible solution for the problem you are facing.
I think this is the main reason why I'm thinking about this migration.
>
Which is your personal point of view? It seems you are a very experienced
person so your suggestion would be really worthwhile.

emavisu:

My personal decision is to stick with MFC, but I have 10 years invested in
learning it. Also, after 10 years of neglect. Microsoft is once again investing
resources in it, because they have accepted that this is what the majority of
their existing C++ customer base wants.

Of course MFC is also a proprietary Microsoft solution. If you are interested,
there are other native C++ libraries (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) that are not
controlled by Microsoft.

--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP

[=?Utf-8?B?ZW1hdmlzdQ==?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

I also would like to stick with VCL but the problem is to know if Embarcadero
and CodeGear want to keep a good support to this product or not! from the
other side (MS) I would need a good library with a full support for Unicode
(for Chinese GUI) but as far as I know I see that MFC is not enough (they
told me I have to use .NET).
Also I would like to keep using C++ (I also invested a lot of time on this
language) but I do not know if using one of the others libraries/frameworks
you are talking about (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) would be a good choice for the
future of my applications.

"David Wilkinson" wrote:

emavisu wrote:

Dear Mr. Wilkinson,
you are confirming my feeling that MS is, as usual, pushing developers in
the direction of working in a complete proprietary solution!

Frankly speaking I think C++Builder and VCL are great tool to work with but
the problem is that you can hardly find people using it (mainly in italy,
whare I live). In this situation, when you need something is nearly
impossible to find out a forum like this one where to chat with someone about
the possible solution for the problem you are facing.
I think this is the main reason why I'm thinking about this migration.

Which is your personal point of view? It seems you are a very experienced
person so your suggestion would be really worthwhile.

>
emavisu:
>
My personal decision is to stick with MFC, but I have 10 years invested in
learning it. Also, after 10 years of neglect. Microsoft is once again investing
resources in it, because they have accepted that this is what the majority of
their existing C++ customer base wants.
>
Of course MFC is also a proprietary Microsoft solution. If you are interested,
there are other native C++ libraries (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) that are not
controlled by Microsoft.
>
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
>

[David Wilkinson]

Re: porting from C++Builder

emavisu wrote:

I also would like to stick with VCL but the problem is to know if Embarcadero
and CodeGear want to keep a good support to this product or not! from the
other side (MS) I would need a good library with a full support for Unicode
(for Chinese GUI) but as far as I know I see that MFC is not enough (they
told me I have to use .NET).
Also I would like to keep using C++ (I also invested a lot of time on this
language) but I do not know if using one of the others libraries/frameworks
you are talking about (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) would be a good choice for the
future of my applications.

emavisu:

MFC has full support for Unicode. In fact, a default MFC application created in
VS2005 or VS2008 uses Unicode characters by default.

Who told you otherwise?

While nothing is certain, I also think that the future of MFC is much better
assured than QT, wxwidgets, WTL or VCL.

The downside of MFC is that it is old, bloated, and not very elegant. It also
has quite a learning curve. But it works, and there is a ton of code samples
available for it.

--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP

[=?Utf-8?B?ZW1hdmlzdQ==?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

Well I think I will test MFC solution for a while...but my learning curve
MUST be very short so, for sure, I will need to hire good people if I will
decide to go on in this direction: do you know a place to find some of them?

Thanks very much for your time.

emavisu


"David Wilkinson" wrote:

emavisu wrote:

I also would like to stick with VCL but the problem is to know if Embarcadero
and CodeGear want to keep a good support to this product or not! from the
other side (MS) I would need a good library with a full support for Unicode
(for Chinese GUI) but as far as I know I see that MFC is not enough (they
told me I have to use .NET).
Also I would like to keep using C++ (I also invested a lot of time on this
language) but I do not know if using one of the others libraries/frameworks
you are talking about (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) would be a good choice for the
future of my applications.

>
emavisu:
>
MFC has full support for Unicode. In fact, a default MFC application created in
VS2005 or VS2008 uses Unicode characters by default.
>
Who told you otherwise?
>
While nothing is certain, I also think that the future of MFC is much better
assured than QT, wxwidgets, WTL or VCL.
>
The downside of MFC is that it is old, bloated, and not very elegant. It also
has quite a learning curve. But it works, and there is a ton of code samples
available for it.
>
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
>

[Jonathan Wilson]

Re: porting from C++Builder

needs them, which is probably not true of MFC, VCL, or Qt which will

only be around for as long as Microsoft, Embarcadero (aka CodeGear,
formerly part of Borland), and Nokia choose to keep them going -- I
imagine that will be quite a long time, though.

Actually, QT is available under the GPL as well as under a proprietary
license. If Nokia/trolltech folded or stopped developing it, the community
would just keep using the GPL version. (at least those releasing open
source software that is)

[=?Utf-8?B?RGFuaWVs?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

You should be aware that Microsoft is no longer promoting C++/CLI as a
language

for .NET GUI applications, just for interfacing to native C++ code. C# is really
recommended for GUI code. You can use it for GUI code, but you may regret it.

we noticed this :-) LOL

[=?Utf-8?B?RGFuaWVs?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

well, why don't you download the free trial of C++Builder 2009 and see for
yourself (also ask for their companion/partner cd)


"emavisu" wrote:

I also would like to stick with VCL but the problem is to know if Embarcadero
and CodeGear want to keep a good support to this product or not! from the
other side (MS) I would need a good library with a full support for Unicode
(for Chinese GUI) but as far as I know I see that MFC is not enough (they
told me I have to use .NET).
Also I would like to keep using C++ (I also invested a lot of time on this
language) but I do not know if using one of the others libraries/frameworks
you are talking about (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) would be a good choice for the
future of my applications.
>
"David Wilkinson" wrote:
>

emavisu wrote:

Dear Mr. Wilkinson,
you are confirming my feeling that MS is, as usual, pushing developers in
the direction of working in a complete proprietary solution!
>
Frankly speaking I think C++Builder and VCL are great tool to work with but
the problem is that you can hardly find people using it (mainly in italy,
whare I live). In this situation, when you need something is nearly
impossible to find out a forum like this one where to chat with someone about
the possible solution for the problem you are facing.
I think this is the main reason why I'm thinking about this migration.
>
Which is your personal point of view? It seems you are a very experienced
person so your suggestion would be really worthwhile.

emavisu:

My personal decision is to stick with MFC, but I have 10 years invested in
learning it. Also, after 10 years of neglect. Microsoft is once again investing
resources in it, because they have accepted that this is what the majority of
their existing C++ customer base wants.

Of course MFC is also a proprietary Microsoft solution. If you are interested,
there are other native C++ libraries (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) that are not
controlled by Microsoft.

--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP

[=?Utf-8?B?RGFuaWVs?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

unicode... right!
so is the new VCL (for both delphi and bcb 2009!)

"David Wilkinson" wrote:

emavisu wrote:

I also would like to stick with VCL but the problem is to know if Embarcadero
and CodeGear want to keep a good support to this product or not! from the
other side (MS) I would need a good library with a full support for Unicode
(for Chinese GUI) but as far as I know I see that MFC is not enough (they
told me I have to use .NET).
Also I would like to keep using C++ (I also invested a lot of time on this
language) but I do not know if using one of the others libraries/frameworks
you are talking about (QT, wxwidgets, WTL ...) would be a good choice for the
future of my applications.

>
emavisu:
>
MFC has full support for Unicode. In fact, a default MFC application created in
VS2005 or VS2008 uses Unicode characters by default.
>
Who told you otherwise?
>
While nothing is certain, I also think that the future of MFC is much better
assured than QT, wxwidgets, WTL or VCL.
>
The downside of MFC is that it is old, bloated, and not very elegant. It also
has quite a learning curve. But it works, and there is a ton of code samples
available for it.
>
--
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
>

[=?Utf-8?B?RGFuaWVs?=]

Re: porting from C++Builder

qt is super expnsive! that's a fact the getlemen from nokia (current owner of
qt) don't seam to quite follow (it doesn't fit in their power point
presentations.. .)

both wxWidgets and VCL currently are maintained FULL SPEE AHEAD and they
have full support for UNICODE. the problem with wxWidgets (i was to say
wxWindows) is that in terms of database development (especially dbaware
controls) they are like 15 years in the past... and they don't seam to
undestand that where people cannot build vertical database client
applications, well, there is a problem right there! (don't need to be a
genius to agree) - it's not that we're all buiding compilers, debuggers,
frameworks, kernel stuff... :-)

"Jonathan Wilson" wrote:

needs them, which is probably not true of MFC, VCL, or Qt which will
only be around for as long as Microsoft, Embarcadero (aka CodeGear,
formerly part of Borland), and Nokia choose to keep them going -- I
imagine that will be quite a long time, though.

Actually, QT is available under the GPL as well as under a proprietary
license. If Nokia/trolltech folded or stopped developing it, the community
would just keep using the GPL version. (at least those releasing open
source software that is)
>
>