Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML file

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

I am not accustomed to creating xml files programmaticall y. The big picture
is this: This will be in VB/VS 2005/ winforms. I have a DTD, a sample XML,
and an outside data source I will use to populate the XML. In general I
think I know how to create elements and attributes and I'm sure I can hack
something together but I'm wondering if I'm missing (or forgetting) a better
way (other than a long line of hard-coded CreateElement commands).
Suggestions please.

-----

A related problem: the XML header, for lack of a better term. If we assume
creation of an XmlDocument object from scratch, how do I add the header
elements? I cannot find any discussion of this. (Feel free to correct my
terminology.)

This is what I'm referring to -

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">
<?xml-stylesheet href="SampleXml .xslt" type="text/xsl" ?>

[Joe Fawcett]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML file

As to the header you shouldn't need to add it. It is created when the
document is serialised and isn't always needed, it depends on the encoding
used.
I agree that creating documents by dozens of CreateXXX statements is not
nice.
How changeable are the documents. I often start with a template, either a
string constant, in a resource file or an actual file and load this first.
Then I alter it as needed.


--

Joe Fawcett (MVP - XML)

http://joe.fawcett.name

"B. Chernick" <BChernick@disc ussions.microso ft.comwrote in message
news:D332B170-4DDF-4D4B-9F8E-A4B233E7C652@mi crosoft.com...

>I am not accustomed to creating xml files programmaticall y. The big
>picture
is this: This will be in VB/VS 2005/ winforms. I have a DTD, a sample
XML,
and an outside data source I will use to populate the XML. In general I
think I know how to create elements and attributes and I'm sure I can hack
something together but I'm wondering if I'm missing (or forgetting) a
better
way (other than a long line of hard-coded CreateElement commands).
Suggestions please.
>
-----
>
A related problem: the XML header, for lack of a better term. If we
assume
creation of an XmlDocument object from scratch, how do I add the header
elements? I cannot find any discussion of this. (Feel free to correct my
terminology.)
>
This is what I'm referring to -
>
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">
<?xml-stylesheet href="SampleXml .xslt" type="text/xsl" ?>
>

[Martin Honnen]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML file

B. Chernick wrote:

I am not accustomed to creating xml files programmaticall y. The big picture
is this: This will be in VB/VS 2005/ winforms. I have a DTD, a sample XML,
and an outside data source I will use to populate the XML. In general I
think I know how to create elements and attributes and I'm sure I can hack
something together but I'm wondering if I'm missing (or forgetting) a better
way (other than a long line of hard-coded CreateElement commands).
Suggestions please.

If you convert the DTD into a schema then you can use XML
serialization/deserialization :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...ss(VS.80).aspx
You can use the xsd.exe tool to create .NET classes from the schema.

If you have relational data then you can also consider to populate a
DataSet and use its WriteXml method.

This is what I'm referring to -
>
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>

That is the XML declaration, it is created by the WriteStartDocum ent
method of XmlWriter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tdocument.aspx
or using CreateXmlDeclar ation
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...claration.aspx
in the DOM model.

<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">

That is a document type declaration, created using WriteDocType
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tedoctype.aspx
of XmlWriter or using CreateDocumentT ype
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...umenttype.aspx
method of XmlDocument.

<?xml-stylesheet href="SampleXml .xslt" type="text/xsl" ?>

That is a a processing instruction with the name 'xml-stylesheet' and
the data 'href="SampleXm l.xslt" type="text/xsl"' so you create it using
WriteProcessing Instruction of XmlWriter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...struction.aspx
or using CreateProcessin gInstruction
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...struction.aspx
of XmlDocument.


--

Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

I don't mean to be rude but I'm afraid I didn't understand much your reply.

This, so far as I know, is not a standard Dot Net situation. The purpose of
the program, if it ever gets written, is to extract data from an Excel
spreadsheet and plug it into a standalone XML file. I'm afraid I've been
given very little of the big picture. I think it eventually gets fed into
some mainframe system.

"Joe Fawcett" wrote:

As to the header you shouldn't need to add it. It is created when the
document is serialised and isn't always needed, it depends on the encoding
used.
I agree that creating documents by dozens of CreateXXX statements is not
nice.
How changeable are the documents. I often start with a template, either a
string constant, in a resource file or an actual file and load this first.
Then I alter it as needed.
>
>
--
>
Joe Fawcett (MVP - XML)
>

http://joe.fawcett.name

>
"B. Chernick" <BChernick@disc ussions.microso ft.comwrote in message
news:D332B170-4DDF-4D4B-9F8E-A4B233E7C652@mi crosoft.com...

I am not accustomed to creating xml files programmaticall y. The big
picture
is this: This will be in VB/VS 2005/ winforms. I have a DTD, a sample
XML,
and an outside data source I will use to populate the XML. In general I
think I know how to create elements and attributes and I'm sure I can hack
something together but I'm wondering if I'm missing (or forgetting) a
better
way (other than a long line of hard-coded CreateElement commands).
Suggestions please.

-----

A related problem: the XML header, for lack of a better term. If we
assume
creation of an XmlDocument object from scratch, how do I add the header
elements? I cannot find any discussion of this. (Feel free to correct my
terminology.)

This is what I'm referring to -

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">
<?xml-stylesheet href="SampleXml .xslt" type="text/xsl" ?>

>
>
>

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

Thanks for your response. I think you may have answered several other
questions I've been wondering about. However in this particular situation, I
don't believe converting the DTD to an xsd is an option. The output has to
go to some legacy system that I don't have control over (so far as I know).

(I would have to translate the DTD manually, right? There's no wizard or
utility for such a conversion? If I am not mistaken, DTDs obsolete and
there's little or no support for them in Dot Net?)

"Martin Honnen" wrote:

B. Chernick wrote:

I am not accustomed to creating xml files programmaticall y. The big picture
is this: This will be in VB/VS 2005/ winforms. I have a DTD, a sample XML,
and an outside data source I will use to populate the XML. In general I
think I know how to create elements and attributes and I'm sure I can hack
something together but I'm wondering if I'm missing (or forgetting) a better
way (other than a long line of hard-coded CreateElement commands).
Suggestions please.

>
If you convert the DTD into a schema then you can use XML
serialization/deserialization :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...ss(VS.80).aspx
You can use the xsd.exe tool to create .NET classes from the schema.
>
If you have relational data then you can also consider to populate a
DataSet and use its WriteXml method.
>

This is what I'm referring to -

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>

>
That is the XML declaration, it is created by the WriteStartDocum ent
method of XmlWriter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tdocument.aspx
or using CreateXmlDeclar ation
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...claration.aspx
in the DOM model.
>

<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">

>
That is a document type declaration, created using WriteDocType
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tedoctype.aspx
of XmlWriter or using CreateDocumentT ype
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...umenttype.aspx
method of XmlDocument.
>

<?xml-stylesheet href="SampleXml .xslt" type="text/xsl" ?>

>
That is a a processing instruction with the name 'xml-stylesheet' and
the data 'href="SampleXm l.xslt" type="text/xsl"' so you create it using
WriteProcessing Instruction of XmlWriter
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...struction.aspx
or using CreateProcessin gInstruction
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...struction.aspx
of XmlDocument.
>
>
--
>
Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
>

[Martin Honnen]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

B. Chernick wrote:

(I would have to translate the DTD manually, right? There's no wizard or
utility for such a conversion? If I am not mistaken, DTDs obsolete and
there's little or no support for them in Dot Net?)

There are tools like Xml editors
(http://www.stylusstudio.com/dtd/conv...to_schema.html) or Trang
(http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang.html) that can translate a
DTD to a W3C schema.

As for .NET, it has support for validating an XML document against a DTD
but besides that its API are pretty much focussed on W3C XML schemas.

--

Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

As for .NET, it has support for validating an XML document against a DTD

but besides that its API are pretty much focussed on W3C XML schemas.

Pretty much as I suspected. Getting approval for 3rd party tools is
problematic as well, especially for adhoc projects. :-)

On an earlier point, the use of WriteDocType, I am ready to tear my hair
out. I have this code and I cannot get it to work. I keep getting the error
'The '' character, hexiadecimal value 0x20, cannot be included in a name.'
Frankly I'm out of my league here. I cannot find any reference for the error
or WriteDocType that I can understand. Here's my test code:

Dim w As XmlWriter = XmlWriter.Creat e("Out.xml")
w.WriteStartDoc ument()
w.WriteDocType( "SOME TEXT", Nothing, Nothing, "DTDName.dt d")
w.Close()

I've tried a number of variations on that including """DTDName.dtd" "". What
do I have to do to get this one simple line of xml out to the file?
<!DOCTYPE SOME TEXT "DTDName.dt d">

Thanks

"Martin Honnen" wrote:

B. Chernick wrote:
>

(I would have to translate the DTD manually, right? There's no wizard or
utility for such a conversion? If I am not mistaken, DTDs obsolete and
there's little or no support for them in Dot Net?)

>
There are tools like Xml editors
(http://www.stylusstudio.com/dtd/conv...to_schema.html) or Trang
(http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang.html) that can translate a
DTD to a W3C schema.
>
As for .NET, it has support for validating an XML document against a DTD
but besides that its API are pretty much focussed on W3C XML schemas.
>
--
>
Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
>

[Martin Honnen]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

B. Chernick wrote:

Dim w As XmlWriter = XmlWriter.Creat e("Out.xml")
w.WriteStartDoc ument()
w.WriteDocType( "SOME TEXT", Nothing, Nothing, "DTDName.dt d")

Well the first argument is the root element name and an element name is
not allowed to contain a space so you need to decide which root element
name you want (e.g. "some-name" or "some_name" ) and write that out. You
can't use "SOME TEXT" as the space is not allowed.


--

Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

The actual sample xml I was originally given has a line of:

<!DOCTYPE BDD SYSTEM "EAI.dtd">

Are you saying that this violates XML standards in general?

(Actually I should explain that for some reason I was convinced that the
last parm of the line was the problem. I didn't realize it was the first.
This works: w.WriteDocType( "BDD-SYSTEM", Nothing, Nothing, "EAI.dtd")

but results in <!DOCTYPE BDD-SYSTEM [EAI.dtd] Why the brackets and is
there any way to get rid of them?)

"Martin Honnen" wrote:

B. Chernick wrote:
>

Dim w As XmlWriter = XmlWriter.Creat e("Out.xml")
w.WriteStartDoc ument()
w.WriteDocType( "SOME TEXT", Nothing, Nothing, "DTDName.dt d")

>
Well the first argument is the root element name and an element name is
not allowed to contain a space so you need to decide which root element
name you want (e.g. "some-name" or "some_name" ) and write that out. You
can't use "SOME TEXT" as the space is not allowed.
>
>
--
>
Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
>

[Martin Honnen]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

B. Chernick wrote:

The actual sample xml I was originally given has a line of:
>
<!DOCTYPE BDD SYSTEM "EAI.dtd">
>
Are you saying that this violates XML standards in general?

No, it does not. The "BDD" is the root element name and "EAI.dtd" is the
system identifier.

(Actually I should explain that for some reason I was convinced that the
last parm of the line was the problem. I didn't realize it was the first.
This works: w.WriteDocType( "BDD-SYSTEM", Nothing, Nothing, "EAI.dtd")
>
but results in <!DOCTYPE BDD-SYSTEM [EAI.dtd] Why the brackets and is
there any way to get rid of them?)

Use
w.WriteDocType( "BDD", Nothing, "EAI.dtd", Nothing)
to produce the line you posted above. The "SYSTEM" string will be
automatically added as you pass in a third argument string, the system
identifier.
See also the online documentation
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tedoctype.aspx
or your local MSDN copy which explains the four arguments.

--

Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/

[Joe Fawcett]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

"B. Chernick" <BChernick@disc ussions.microso ft.comwrote in message
news:255E5673-B26C-4A0E-9D63-D7CEBB4D419B@mi crosoft.com...

>I don't mean to be rude but I'm afraid I didn't understand much your reply.

Okay

>
This, so far as I know, is not a standard Dot Net situation.

Seems like a perfectly normal scenario

The purpose of

the program, if it ever gets written, is to extract data from an Excel
spreadsheet and plug it into a standalone XML file. I'm afraid I've been
given very little of the big picture. I think it eventually gets fed into
some mainframe system.
>

You said you wanted a way to avoid creating the whole file by hand, the file
matches a known schema. So I suggested that start with an XML template that
matched the schema and then make alterations to it based on the external
data.


--

Joe Fawcett (MVP - XML)

http://joe.fawcett.name

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

Thanks for the help. The call is finally doing what I need. I don't see how
I could have ever gotten that from that documentation.

"Martin Honnen" wrote:

B. Chernick wrote:

The actual sample xml I was originally given has a line of:

<!DOCTYPE BDD SYSTEM "EAI.dtd">

Are you saying that this violates XML standards in general?

>
No, it does not. The "BDD" is the root element name and "EAI.dtd" is the
system identifier.
>

(Actually I should explain that for some reason I was convinced that the
last parm of the line was the problem. I didn't realize it was the first.
This works: w.WriteDocType( "BDD-SYSTEM", Nothing, Nothing, "EAI.dtd")

but results in <!DOCTYPE BDD-SYSTEM [EAI.dtd] Why the brackets and is
there any way to get rid of them?)

>
Use
w.WriteDocType( "BDD", Nothing, "EAI.dtd", Nothing)
to produce the line you posted above. The "SYSTEM" string will be
automatically added as you pass in a third argument string, the system
identifier.
See also the online documentation
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...tedoctype.aspx
or your local MSDN copy which explains the four arguments.
>
--
>
Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
>

[=?Utf-8?B?Qi4gQ2hlcm5pY2s=?=]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

"So I suggested that start with an XML template that matched the schema and
then make alterations to it based on the external data."

Thanks but once again, I have no idea what you just said. I have no idea
what an XML Template is either or how to use it, and the only reference I can
find in Help has something to do with SQL Server. Is there an actual demo
you can point me to that illustrates your suggestion? Perhaps this is purely
a matter of terminology.

(Unfortunately my job requires me to bounce between many different
technologies and XML is one that I have not had the time or need to focus on
for long.)

Thanks.

"Joe Fawcett" wrote:

"B. Chernick" <BChernick@disc ussions.microso ft.comwrote in message
news:255E5673-B26C-4A0E-9D63-D7CEBB4D419B@mi crosoft.com...

I don't mean to be rude but I'm afraid I didn't understand much your reply.

Okay

This, so far as I know, is not a standard Dot Net situation.

Seems like a perfectly normal scenario
>
The purpose of

the program, if it ever gets written, is to extract data from an Excel
spreadsheet and plug it into a standalone XML file. I'm afraid I've been
given very little of the big picture. I think it eventually gets fed into
some mainframe system.

>
You said you wanted a way to avoid creating the whole file by hand, the file
matches a known schema. So I suggested that start with an XML template that
matched the schema and then make alterations to it based on the external
data.
>
>
--
>
Joe Fawcett (MVP - XML)
>

http://joe.fawcett.name

>
>
>

[Martin Honnen]

Re: Big picture questions - cleanest method for creating an XML fi

B. Chernick wrote:

"So I suggested that start with an XML template that matched the schema and
then make alterations to it based on the external data."
>
Thanks but once again, I have no idea what you just said. I have no idea
what an XML Template is either or how to use it, and the only reference I can
find in Help has something to do with SQL Server. Is there an actual demo
you can point me to that illustrates your suggestion? Perhaps this is purely
a matter of terminology.

Imagine you need to create XHTML documents, instead of starting from
scratch and each time creating the html element, the head element, the
body element you could simply create an XHTML document already
containing the html, the head, and the body element and use that as a
"template", meaning you would use System.Xml.XmlD ocument and load that
"template" document and then use the DOM to manipulate it as needed
(e.g. add the title, add headings, add paragraphs) and save as needed.

That is all what Joe tried to suggest, at least if I understand him
correctly. So the XML "template" is nothing but an XML file with the
structure you need for all your XML documents you want to create.


--

Martin Honnen --- MVP XML
http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/