JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

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  • joebloe

    JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

    Which browsers, if any, other than FF2/3, support Javascript 1.7? And
    in those, how do you turn it on? As in, for FF2 you must say:

    <script type="applicati on/javascript;vers ion=1.7">

    or the equivalent. Do you know the timeline for upcoming JS 1.7
    support in browsers that don't currently support it?
  • Martin Honnen

    #2
    Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

    joebloe wrote:
    Which browsers, if any, other than FF2/3, support Javascript 1.7?
    Other Mozilla browsers like SeaMonkey or Camino do. Actually I know that
    SeaMonkey does, I have never used Camino but it is based on Gecko and
    Spidermonkey as well so I would be pretty suprised if the latest Camino
    version would not support JavaScript 1.7.


    --

    Martin Honnen

    Comment

    • joebloe

      #3
      Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

      Maybe I am not looking in the right place, but it has seemed bizarrely
      difficult to determine what browser supports what, and what an
      upcoming release will support. Mozilla's developer page says, plainly,
      "Version xx supports 1.6 and here are the new features in 1.6 and how
      to use them ... Version xx supports 1.7 and here are ..." etc. But
      where is that for MSIE, Opera, Safari, ....?

      The application I'm working on doesn't have to be backward compatible
      with anything and I'm even okay with requiring a user to run it from
      FF2 or FF3, but I'd like to know what's up with the rest of the
      browser world where future JS/ECMAscript support is concerned.

      On May 16, 10:41 am, Martin Honnen <mahotr...@yaho o.dewrote:
      joebloe wrote:
      Which browsers, if any, other than FF2/3, support Javascript 1.7?
      >
      Other Mozilla browsers like SeaMonkey or Camino do. Actually I know that
      SeaMonkey does, I have never used Camino but it is based on Gecko and
      Spidermonkey as well so I would be pretty suprised if the latest Camino
      version would not support JavaScript 1.7.

      Comment

      • Jeremy

        #4
        Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

        joebloe wrote:
        Maybe I am not looking in the right place, but it has seemed bizarrely
        difficult to determine what browser supports what, and what an
        upcoming release will support. Mozilla's developer page says, plainly,
        "Version xx supports 1.6 and here are the new features in 1.6 and how
        to use them ... Version xx supports 1.7 and here are ..." etc. But
        where is that for MSIE, Opera, Safari, ....?
        >
        The application I'm working on doesn't have to be backward compatible
        with anything and I'm even okay with requiring a user to run it from
        FF2 or FF3, but I'd like to know what's up with the rest of the
        browser world where future JS/ECMAscript support is concerned.

        Wikipedia has a comparison table. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but
        it seems like it's better than nothing:



        Jeremy

        Comment

        • joebloe

          #5
          Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

          On May 16, 12:23 pm, Jeremy <jer...@pinacol .comwrote:
          Wikipedia has a comparison table. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but
          it seems like it's better than nothing:
          >
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...es_%28ECMAScri...
          I saw that, but I don't know where they got that info from, and on its
          surface it is wildly inaccurate. :-(


          Comment

          • John G Harris

            #6
            Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

            On Fri, 16 May 2008 at 10:47:27, in comp.lang.javas cript, joebloe wrote:
            >Maybe I am not looking in the right place, but it has seemed bizarrely
            >difficult to determine what browser supports what, and what an
            >upcoming release will support. Mozilla's developer page says, plainly,
            >"Version xx supports 1.6 and here are the new features in 1.6 and how
            >to use them ... Version xx supports 1.7 and here are ..." etc. But
            >where is that for MSIE, Opera, Safari, ....?
            <snip>

            Microsoft has never been good at saying what it's done. There are legal
            reasons why it has to be very careful about announcing what future
            products will do.

            Where does the number 1.7 come from ?

            John
            --
            John Harris

            Comment

            • VK

              #7
              Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

              On May 16, 9:47 pm, joebloe <remid0d...@gma il.comwrote:
              Maybe I am not looking in the right place, but it has seemed bizarrely
              difficult to determine what browser supports what, and what an
              upcoming release will support. Mozilla's developer page says, plainly,
              "Version xx supports 1.6 and here are the new features in 1.6 and how
              to use them ... Version xx supports 1.7 and here are ..." etc. But
              where is that for MSIE, Opera, Safari, ....?
              Microsoft has its own brand name of ECMAScript implementation called
              JScript and its own version numbering schema going from IE3 (the first
              one with JScript support). The schema is not fully consistent, being
              attached at different times either to major JScript update or to the
              browser version number. See it at:

              See also version vector details for conditional comments at

              The current version for both IE6 and IE7 it is 5.6 with lesser-major
              numbers different. On any IE just run
              window.alert('' .concat(
              ScriptEngineMaj orVersion(), '.',
              ScriptEngineMin orVersion(), '.',
              ScriptEngineBui ldVersion()
              ));
              to see the exact numbers.
              There is a gap left between 5.6 and 7 for upcoming upgrades, and the
              next version number in use is 7.0 for JScript.NET but this engine is
              server-side only so out of your interest I guess.

              Other producers are using the original Netscape numbering schema with
              JavaScript 1.0 for Netscape 2.x and JavaScript 1.5 being the current
              industry standard de facto.
              JavaScript 1.5 is pretty much equal to JScript 5.6 lesser some minor
              algorithm implementations .

              JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
              Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
              Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
              compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7

              So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
              unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.

              Hope it helps.



              Comment

              • joebloe

                #8
                Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                On May 18, 12:46 pm, VK <schools_r...@y ahoo.comwrote:
                JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7
                >
                So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
                unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.
                >
                Hope it helps.
                Well, I'm committed to using JS 1.7 features (like let :-) so I guess
                it'll be Gecko for me for at least another year. Or four. Which is
                okay; I have no problem telling people to use Firefox for my (game)
                application. But who knows, maybe Webkit will implement 1.7/1.8/etc.
                before then. Opera and MSIE, forget it....

                -j

                Comment

                • VK

                  #9
                  Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                  On May 19, 9:38 pm, joebloe <remid0d...@gma il.comwrote:
                  On May 18, 12:46 pm, VK <schools_r...@y ahoo.comwrote:
                  >
                  JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                  Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                  Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                  compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7
                  >
                  So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
                  unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.
                  >
                  Hope it helps.
                  >
                  Well, I'm committed to using JS 1.7 features (like let :-) so I guess
                  it'll be Gecko for me for at least another year. Or four. Which is
                  okay; I have no problem telling people to use Firefox for my (game)
                  application. But who knows, maybe Webkit will implement 1.7/1.8/etc.
                  before then. Opera and MSIE, forget it....
                  It is your decision to make. For Mozilla Foundation JavaScript
                  specific questions you may also ask at
                  mozilla.dev.tec h.javascript (language specific)
                  and
                  mozilla.dev.tec h.js-engine (engine specific)
                  They are rather regularly being read by people who are actually making
                  the things.

                  Comment

                  • Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

                    #10
                    Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                    VK wrote:
                    [JScript]
                    There is a gap left between 5.6 and 7 for upcoming upgrades, and the
                    next version number in use is 7.0 for JScript.NET but this engine is
                    server-side only so out of your interest I guess.
                    JScript 5.7 for Windows XP (and probably 5.8 for Vista and Windows Server
                    2008) obviously exist, however I have yet to check if there are any
                    differences to JScript 5.6 or if the increase in version is only attributed
                    to them being introduced with different OS versions.
                    Other producers are using the original Netscape numbering schema with
                    JavaScript 1.0 for Netscape 2.x and JavaScript 1.5 being the current
                    industry standard de facto.
                    Other products simply do not support JScript or JavaScript. And if anything
                    is an industry standard right now, it is not JavaScript 1.5 but ECMAScript
                    (ECMA-262) Edition 3 or ISO/IEC 16262:2002.
                    JavaScript 1.5 is pretty much equal to JScript 5.6 lesser some minor
                    algorithm implementations .
                    Not true, as has been discussed here already.
                    JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                    Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                    which also introduces proprietary features, however all of those
                    are backed up by the Specifications' Conformance sections.
                    Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                    compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7
                    >
                    So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
                    unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.
                    Not true either, Often Wrong.




                    PointedEars
                    --
                    Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
                    who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
                    the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
                    -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8 300dec7@news.de mon.co.uk>

                    Comment

                    • VK

                      #11
                      Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                      On May 19, 10:07 pm, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
                      wrote:
                      JScript 5.7 for Windows XP (and probably 5.8 for Vista and Windows Server
                      2008) obviously exist, however I have yet to check if there are any
                      differences to JScript 5.6 or if the increase in version is only attributed
                      to them being introduced with different OS versions.
                      JScript 5.7 for IE7 does exists but so far it updates 5.6 only on
                      Vista installation of IE7 unless someone does manual jscript.dll
                      upgrade.
                      It has a noticeably upgraded gc mechanics to better handle intensive
                      memory usage in long running applications. See Eric Lippert blog at

                      and Paul Dempsey explanations on 5.7 in blog's comments.
                      Nothing explicit what you could determine from the outside of the box:
                      just some solutions should start using lesser runtime memory.
                      Other producers are using the original Netscape numbering schema with
                      JavaScript 1.0 for Netscape 2.x and JavaScript 1.5 being the current
                      industry standard de facto.
                      >
                      Other products simply do not support JScript or JavaScript.
                      Your regular nonsense again.
                      And if anything
                      is an industry standard right now, it is not JavaScript 1.5 but ECMAScript
                      (ECMA-262) Edition 3 or ISO/IEC 16262:2002.
                      But this forum is not about ECMAScript - it is about Javascript.
                      JavaScript 1.5 is pretty much equal to JScript 5.6 lesser some minor
                      algorithm implementations .
                      >
                      Not true, as has been discussed here already.
                      The [1,2,] issue or the named function within an expression and a
                      dozen of similar discrepancies are way not enough to see two different
                      languages here. There are much more bigger differences between some C+
                      + or Java implementations . Such issues still should be mentioned when
                      they are important but otherwise it is one language we are programming
                      on.
                      JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                      Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                      >
                      which also introduces proprietary features, however all of those
                      are backed up by the Specifications' Conformance sections.
                      like having new type of "comments" <? ... ?;-)
                      var foo = "foo"; <? foobar ?>
                      alert(foo); // no problem
                      Yes, I am aware of the XML grounds of this bizarrity but I mean can
                      you take such source code w/o modifications anywhere outside of most
                      modern Gecko builds?
                      Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                      compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7
                      >
                      So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
                      unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.
                      >
                      Not true either, Often Wrong.
                      Sometimes wrong, mostly right. Do not mix DOM interfaces' cross-
                      browser mess which is indeed huge and Javascript itself.

                      Comment

                      • joebloe

                        #12
                        Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                        On May 19, 11:07 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@we b.de>
                        wrote:
                        VK wrote:
                        JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                        Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                        >
                        which also introduces proprietary features, however all of those
                        are backed up by the Specifications' Conformance sections.
                        >
                        Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                        compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7
                        Why exactly would I want to continue writing Javascript 1.5? Is this
                        like writing FORTRAN 77? Something has to drive the adoption of the
                        improved, more expressive language. You say "it's my choice" like
                        there's something wrong with that choice. What, you resent change?
                        So overall you don't need to have any headache at all with versions
                        unless you want to use some of new Gecko-specific features.
                        Yes, but the Gecko-specific features (which are largely a subset of
                        and forward compatible with ECMAScript Ed 4) are, how to express this,
                        *useful*. And all of them will be adopted by other browsers in the
                        next year or two, except for IE, and who knows what will happen there.
                        Most likely, MS will adopt someone else's rendering/Javascript engine,
                        lest the killer app come along that won't run on IE.

                        Comment

                        • joebloe

                          #13
                          Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                          On May 19, 12:40 pm, VK <schools_r...@y ahoo.comwrote:
                          There are much more bigger differences between some C+
                          + or Java implementations .
                          Not really, unless you count lame implementations like gcj that no one
                          uses (and that don't work). Java compilers and runtimes have extremely
                          high cross compatibility. The issues with C++ and C are much more
                          related to the system and OS environment than to language. Different
                          browsers, at least up till now, are like mutually exclusive
                          programming environments once you get to a certain level. I think this
                          is all going to change in the next couple of years, though, with
                          rendering engines finally catching up to and even driving standards,
                          and with there no longer being the feeling that writing for or
                          developing anything beyond IE is pointless.

                          Comment

                          • Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

                            #14
                            Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                            [trimmed attribution novel]

                            VK wrote:
                            Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
                            >JScript 5.7 for Windows XP (and probably 5.8 for Vista and Windows
                            >Server 2008) obviously exist, however I have yet to check if there are
                            >any differences to JScript 5.6 or if the increase in version is only
                            >attributed to them being introduced with different OS versions.
                            >
                            JScript 5.7 for IE7 does exists but so far it updates 5.6 only on Vista
                            installation of IE7 unless someone does manual jscript.dll upgrade.
                            It exists here on my *Windows XP* SP 2 system, presumably since I updated it
                            to IE 7.0. Otherwise I have only let the latest security fixes installed,
                            *automatically* .
                            It has a noticeably upgraded gc mechanics to better handle intensive
                            memory usage in long running applications. See Eric Lippert blog at
                            http://blogs.msdn.com/ericlippert/ar.../17/53038.aspx and Paul
                            Dempsey explanations on 5.7 in blog's comments. Nothing explicit what you
                            could determine from the outside of the box: just some solutions should
                            start using lesser runtime memory.
                            That would be good to know, thanks.
                            >>Other producers are using the original Netscape numbering schema with
                            >> JavaScript 1.0 for Netscape 2.x and JavaScript 1.5 being the current
                            >> industry standard de facto.
                            >Other products simply do not support JScript or JavaScript.
                            >
                            Your regular nonsense again.
                            Other products (i.e. those not using Trident or Gecko as layout engine) do
                            not support JScript oder JavaScript, but their own ECMAScript
                            implementation. It's a fact that you refuse to accept because it does not
                            fit into your tiny fantasy world.
                            >And if anything is an industry standard right now, it is not JavaScript
                            >1.5 but ECMAScript (ECMA-262) Edition 3 or ISO/IEC 16262:2002.
                            >
                            But this forum is not about ECMAScript - it is about Javascript.
                            This newsgroup is for all ECMAScript implementations unless there exists a
                            special newsgroup for a specification within the Big 8. That its charter
                            is somewhat outdated does not change the nature of the discussions we have
                            here, and the reason why we do.
                            >>JavaScript 1.5 is pretty much equal to JScript 5.6 lesser some minor
                            >>algorithm implementations .
                            >Not true, as has been discussed here already.
                            >
                            The [1,2,] issue or the named function within an expression and a dozen
                            of similar discrepancies are way not enough to see two different
                            languages here. There are much more bigger differences between some C+ +
                            or Java implementations . Such issues still should be mentioned when they
                            are important but otherwise it is one language we are programming on.
                            I suggest you visit the ECMAScript Support Matrix site and get yourself
                            informed. If you don't trust that you may also look it up in the MSDN
                            Library (or ask Eric Lippert, but I doubt he'll be pleased to endure your
                            style again).
                            >>JavaScript 1.6 (Firefox 1.5) and JavaScript 1.7 (Firefox 2.0) are
                            >>Mozilla Foundation proprietary extensions of the base 1.5
                            >which also introduces proprietary features, however all of those are
                            >backed up by the Specifications' Conformance sections.
                            >
                            like having new type of "comments" <? ... ?;-) var foo = "foo"; <?
                            foobar ?alert(foo); // no problem
                            Not true. It is no problem if the `<?' is followed by text that makes it
                            a a processing instruction. It is a SyntaxError ("invalid XML markup")
                            otherwise.
                            Yes, I am aware of the XML grounds of this bizarrity
                            Apparently you are not aware that this is not only an allowed, but also a
                            specified extension of ECMA-262, namely ECMA-357 / ISO/IEC 22537:2006
                            "ECMAScript for XML" (E4X).
                            but I mean can you take such source code w/o modifications anywhere
                            outside of most modern Gecko builds?
                            No, I don't think you can. That is what it makes a language of its own.
                            If only you would finally see that ...
                            >>Not all feature are backward compatible with 1.5, but any 1.5-
                            >>compliant program will run under 1.6 or 1.7 So overall you don't need
                            >>to have any headache at all with versions unless you want to use some
                            >>of new Gecko-specific features.
                            >Not true either, Often Wrong.
                            >
                            Sometimes wrong, mostly right.
                            And of what do you dream at night?
                            Do not mix DOM interfaces' cross- browser
                            mess which is indeed huge and Javascript itself.--
                            Whatever.


                            PointedEars
                            --
                            Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
                            a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
                            when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
                            computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee

                            Comment

                            • Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

                              #15
                              Re: JS 1.7 support: Who has it, etc.?

                              Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
                              [trimmed attribution novel]
                              >But this forum is not about ECMAScript - it is about Javascript.
                              >
                              This newsgroup is for all ECMAScript implementations unless there exists a
                              ^^^^^^^^^!
                              special newsgroup for a specification within the Big 8. That its charter
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^ implementation
                              is somewhat outdated does not change the nature of the discussions we have
                              here, and the reason why we do.

                              Comment

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