Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

[Sherm Pendley]

pecan <pecan@NOSPAMro uxville.infowri tes:

I've been browsing around, trying to increase my workload, and have
found a number of people wanting someone with skills in xhtml.

XHTML is pointless in the real world, since no version of IE so far
actually supports it. IE doesn't parse it as all if you serve it with
the correct MIME type for it, and if it's served as text/html, IE
simply parses it as HTML. Given that, you're effectively limited to
the subset of XHTML that's just HTML with a few extra slashes in
it - and what's the point in that?

I do, however, find it to be a useful bogosity indicator when I see
it in job listings. It often indicates a clueless manager who's driven
more by popular buzzwords than practicality - not the kind of person I
want to work for. I wouldn't rule out a job based on that alone, but I
*would* set my BS detector at maximum during the interview. :-)

Now, am I going crazy, or is this guy a bit confused?

A *lot* of people are confused by XHTML. It gets far, far more hype
than it deserves.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

[pecan]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Sherm Pendley wrote:

pecan <pecan@NOSPAMro uxville.infowri tes:
>

>I've been browsing around, trying to increase my workload, and have
>found a number of people wanting someone with skills in xhtml.

>
XHTML is pointless in the real world, since no version of IE so far
actually supports it. IE doesn't parse it as all if you serve it with
the correct MIME type for it, and if it's served as text/html, IE
simply parses it as HTML. Given that, you're effectively limited to
the subset of XHTML that's just HTML with a few extra slashes in
it - and what's the point in that?
>
I do, however, find it to be a useful bogosity indicator when I see
it in job listings. It often indicates a clueless manager who's driven
more by popular buzzwords than practicality - not the kind of person I
want to work for. I wouldn't rule out a job based on that alone, but I
*would* set my BS detector at maximum during the interview. :-)
>

>Now, am I going crazy, or is this guy a bit confused?

>
A *lot* of people are confused by XHTML. It gets far, far more hype
than it deserves.
>
sherm--
>

That's kind of what I gathered after an hour or so. I'm in desperate
need of work, though, so if I need to learn enough just to dissuade the
client from wanting it, then that's what I'll have to do. Sigh.
Also... I've always coded using notepad and my brain, and I'm being
forced into finding an Adobe package - Dreamweaver and the rest - just
so i can convince someone who may employ me that I know what I'm doing.

Catherine

[Bergamot]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?


pecan wrote:

>
I'm being
forced into finding an Adobe package - Dreamweaver and the rest - just
so i can convince someone who may employ me that I know what I'm doing.

Someone thinks you need Dreamweaver before you'll be taken seriously? I
think *they* are the ones without a clue. Dreamweaver is just a tool,
and not the only one by a long shot.

--
Berg

[pecan]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Bergamot wrote:

pecan wrote:

>I'm being
>forced into finding an Adobe package - Dreamweaver and the rest - just
>so i can convince someone who may employ me that I know what I'm doing.

>
Someone thinks you need Dreamweaver before you'll be taken seriously? I
think *they* are the ones without a clue. Dreamweaver is just a tool,
and not the only one by a long shot.
>

I agree, but it doesn't help me to find work!!!
I have a good friend who does full-time programming, and she thinks I'M
the stupid one, for using notepad. She says one day I'll graduate to
better things. I've tried wysiwyg applications, but go back to wordpad
every time. Makes so much more SENSE to me that way!

I s'pose one could compare it to driving an automatic vehicle as opposed
to one with a gear shift! lol
I KNOW how to change gears!

C

[dorayme]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

In article <gbi4d0$gtn$1@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
pecan <pecan@NOSPAMro uxville.infowro te:

Bergamot wrote:

pecan wrote:

I'm being
forced into finding an Adobe package - Dreamweaver and the rest - just
so i can convince someone who may employ me that I know what I'm doing.

Someone thinks you need Dreamweaver before you'll be taken seriously? I
think *they* are the ones without a clue. Dreamweaver is just a tool,
and not the only one by a long shot.

>
I agree, but it doesn't help me to find work!!!
I have a good friend who does full-time programming, and she thinks I'M
the stupid one, for using notepad. She says one day I'll graduate to
better things. I've tried wysiwyg applications, but go back to wordpad
every time. Makes so much more SENSE to me that way!
>
I s'pose one could compare it to driving an automatic vehicle as opposed
to one with a gear shift! lol
I KNOW how to change gears!

In a big city like Sydney, it is sort of crazy to be driving around with
gears, too much traffic, too slow, too many lights and stop start. There
is no point and it is counterproducti ve.

Hilly windy country, now that is a different matter.

--
dorayme

[Andy Dingley]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

On 26 Sep, 08:53, pecan <pe...@NOSPAMro uxville.infowro te:

Bergamot wrote:

pecan wrote:

I'm being
forced into finding an Adobe package - Dreamweaver and the rest - just
so i can convince someone who may employ me that I know what I'm doing.

>

Someone thinks you need Dreamweaver before you'll be taken seriously? I
think *they* are the ones without a clue.

I agree, but it doesn't help me to find work!!!

I see your point, but fortunately I haven't seen that attitude
commercially for some time now.

OTOH, they're now looking for XHTML skillz instead, so it's hardly
that much better!

[Bergamot]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?


pecan wrote:

>
I have a good friend who does full-time programming, and she thinks I'M
the stupid one, for using notepad. She says one day I'll graduate to
better things. I've tried wysiwyg applications, but go back to wordpad
every time.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with your friend on that one. Notepad
and Wordpad are clumsy tools and I wouldn't use them myself unless it
was an emergency and nothing else were available. There are much better
plain text editors out there that provide useful features like syntax
highlighting, macros, and more. Some are geared towards web authoring,
like html-kit, others are more general purpose, like Crimson Editor.
Either way, they can make you much more productive, believe me.

Lists of good editors, a number of which are free, have been posted in
these groups many times, especially in alt.html

Check the archives. You'll be glad you did.

--
Berg

[pecan]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Bergamot wrote:

pecan wrote:

>I have a good friend who does full-time programming, and she thinks I'M
>the stupid one, for using notepad. She says one day I'll graduate to
>better things. I've tried wysiwyg applications, but go back to wordpad
>every time.

>
Actually, I'm inclined to agree with your friend on that one. Notepad
and Wordpad are clumsy tools and I wouldn't use them myself unless it
was an emergency and nothing else were available. There are much better
plain text editors out there that provide useful features like syntax
highlighting, macros, and more. Some are geared towards web authoring,
like html-kit, others are more general purpose, like Crimson Editor.
Either way, they can make you much more productive, believe me.
>
Lists of good editors, a number of which are free, have been posted in
these groups many times, especially in alt.html
>
Check the archives. You'll be glad you did.
>

I've tried html-kit, and find it very useful for finding lost opening
and closing tags. (I think I learned about that one here) I only
recently downloaded it, so I'm still discovering its' features.
And I've used WebCeo also, to find and replace text. As well as all the
other lovely things.
I use CSE Html validator lite to validate and edit at the same time, and
also to test things, as it has a magic undo button.

But maybe it's a habit - when I start a new page and have lots to code,
I find it far easier to just start with a nice clean page.

Catherine

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

pecan wrote:

>Lists of good editors, a number of which are free, have been posted
>in these groups many times, especially in alt.html
>>
>Check the archives. You'll be glad you did.

>
I've tried html-kit,

It's not really that much of an editor. Try Notepad++. And use a free
validator for validation, not fake "validators " that some people are willing
to sell.

But maybe it's a habit - when I start a new page and have lots to
code, I find it far easier to just start with a nice clean page.

Well, it depends on what you mean. Surely it pays off to create a page
template.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[Jonathan N. Little]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

pecan wrote:
>

>>Lists of good editors, a number of which are free, have been posted
>>in these groups many times, especially in alt.html
>>>
>>Check the archives. You'll be glad you did.

>>
>I've tried html-kit,

>
It's not really that much of an editor. Try Notepad++. And use a free
validator for validation, not fake "validators " that some people are
willing to sell.
>

>But maybe it's a habit - when I start a new page and have lots to
>code, I find it far easier to just start with a nice clean page.

>
Well, it depends on what you mean. Surely it pays off to create a page
template.
>

I give a vote for CrimsonEditor

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO

http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

[Bergamot]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?


pecan wrote:

Bergamot wrote:

>pecan wrote:

>>I have a good friend who does full-time programming, and she thinks I'M
>>the stupid one, for using notepad.

>>
>There are much better
>plain text editors out there

>
But maybe it's a habit - when I start a new page and have lots to code,
I find it far easier to just start with a nice clean page.

Did you start a new thought here, or is this somehow related to your
choice of editors? I don't see the connection.

--
Berg

[Adrienne Boswell]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
<jkorpela@cs.tu t.fiwriting in news:h_aDk.7199 4$_03.10578
@reader1.news.s aunalahti.fi:

I've tried html-kit,
>
It's not really that much of an editor. Try Notepad++.

The thing that I like about HTML-Kit is that it's pretty simple when you
first install it, and then you can add as many plugins as you need, and
customize it for the way _you_ work. I think my favorite feature is one
key combination access to my saved snippets.

It also has HTML-Tidy (linter) and can upload your current file to
either the W3 or WDG HTML and CSS validators for _REAL_ validation on
the fly. It can also invoke Top-Style Lite CSS editor.

I took a look at the description and screenshot of Notepad++ on
Wikipedia. Seems I can't get to sourceforge, maybe their server is on
the fritz.


--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services

http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info

Please respond to the group so others can share

[pecan]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Adrienne Boswell wrote:

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Jukka K. Korpela"
<jkorpela@cs.tu t.fiwriting in news:h_aDk.7199 4$_03.10578
@reader1.news.s aunalahti.fi:
>

>I've tried html-kit,
>>
>It's not really that much of an editor. Try Notepad++.

>
The thing that I like about HTML-Kit is that it's pretty simple when you
first install it, and then you can add as many plugins as you need, and
customize it for the way _you_ work. I think my favorite feature is one
key combination access to my saved snippets.
>
It also has HTML-Tidy (linter) and can upload your current file to
either the W3 or WDG HTML and CSS validators for _REAL_ validation on
the fly. It can also invoke Top-Style Lite CSS editor.
>
I took a look at the description and screenshot of Notepad++ on
Wikipedia. Seems I can't get to sourceforge, maybe their server is on
the fritz.
>

I downloaded it (notepad++) yesterday - also had problems getting to it,
though - and am very glad I did. It's great (thanks jukka). It's
particularly nice in that I can have filles open, side by side, and copy
from one to the other, save easily, undo more than one step, and
collapse tags. Ha. I didn't even know what that meant until now! lol

The one way I prefer CSE Html Validator to html-kit is that it detects a
file-change, and reloads. How mnay times have I edited something in one
application, and then in another application, only to find I'd lost the
edits from the previous one!
Ah well.

[Jonathan N. Little]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

pecan wrote:

I downloaded it (notepad++) yesterday - also had problems getting to it,
though - and am very glad I did. It's great (thanks jukka). It's
particularly nice in that I can have filles open, side by side, and copy
from one to the other, save easily, undo more than one step, and
collapse tags. Ha. I didn't even know what that meant until now! lol
>
The one way I prefer CSE Html Validator to html-kit is that it detects a
file-change, and reloads. How mnay times have I edited something in one
application, and then in another application, only to find I'd lost the
edits from the previous one!
Ah well.
>

CrimsonEditor does have that feature, plus the syntax highlighting, mdi,
macros, ...


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO

http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

[Mel Smith]

Re: xhtml - am I nuts or what?

Catherine:

I don't wish to 'muddy the waters' here (because I'm a total newbie here
in this ng-- but am a longtime experienced programmer in a variety of xBase
languages).

However, for years I've used the editing products of the SemWare
Corporation (www.semware.com): Qedit, TSE, and now the newer G32 editor. I
use them for all my programming work, and now I hope to use them in building
web pages.

I'll probably be back here asking annoying and embarassing questions but
I'm still sniffing here and learning.

-Mel Smith
Edmonton, Canada (and Mesa, Arizona)