Does caps in table cause none wrapping

[trondhuso]

Hi,

I have a solution that - at time of writing - has to use tables to
render a list of database-results. My challenge though is that we have
used iframes and such to render the different lists on this page, and
now - for some reason - the table has become to wide.

I am looking at the code and trying to change width using css, but
without much luck. I see that in some of the data there are Caps-only
text, and I am now wondering if this caps-only could be the reason for
why the text isn't wrapping when I'm schrinking the table width.

Please do not suggest using divs and css at this moment. I know how to
do that, just that at this moment I have to work with the code that is
presented to me and I don't have the time to fix not using tables.

All I want to know at this moment is if caps is causing problems when
rendering the tables nested of course...

best
Trond

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

Scripsit trondhuso:

I have a solution that - at time of writing - has to use tables to
render a list of database-results.

A table is usually the _adequate_ way to present database results,
especially if the results consist of set of records, each divided into
items (fields) in the same way. It would be most natural to present this
as an HTML table structure, with columns corresponding to the items.

So I don't quite understand the "has to" part.

My challenge though is that we have
used iframes and such to render the different lists on this page, and
now - for some reason - the table has become to wide.

Using iframes is questionable, though not always very wrong. If you had
posted a URL, we might be able to tell whether iframes are an essential
part of your problem.

I am looking at the code and trying to change width using css, but
without much luck.

The mistake is in column 42, but don't quite see which line.

(Hint to irony-challenged: if you fail to post a URL, don't expect
useful advice.)

I see that in some of the data there are Caps-only
text, and I am now wondering if this caps-only could be the reason for
why the text isn't wrapping when I'm schrinking the table width.

It isn't. But caps-only is generally bad for other reasons. It's less
legible, and it MAKES YOU LOOK CHILDISH OR WORSE, LIKE A LAWYER WHO
CANNOT STOP SHOUTING AND REGARDS THAT AS PROFESSIONAL AND LEGALLY
BINDING.

Please do not suggest using divs and css at this moment.

Why would we? You seem to have the weird idea that tables are bad.

I know how to do that,

I very much doubt that.

All I want to know at this moment is if caps is causing problems when
rendering the tables nested of course...

Then you cannot be helped. If you don't want to know the solution to
your real problem, it would be pointless to offer some solutions to some
non-problems that you don't actually describe.

Tables nested? Well there you surely have a problem.

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[trondhuso]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

On 2 Mai, 10:02, "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorp...@cs.tu t.fiwrote:

Scripsit trondhuso:
>

I have a solution that - at time of writing - has to use tables to
render a list of database-results.

>
A table is usually the _adequate_ way to present database results,
especially if the results consist of set of records, each divided into
items (fields) in the same way. It would be most natural to present this
as an HTML table structure, with columns corresponding to the items.
>
So I don't quite understand the "has to" part.
>

My challenge though is that we have
used iframes and such to render the different lists on this page, and
now - for some reason - the table has become to wide.

>
Using iframes is questionable, though not always very wrong. If you had
posted a URL, we might be able to tell whether iframes are an essential
part of your problem.
>

I am looking at the code and trying to change width using css, but
without much luck.

>
The mistake is in column 42, but don't quite see which line.
>
(Hint to irony-challenged: if you fail to post a URL, don't expect
useful advice.)
>

I see that in some of the data there are Caps-only
text, and I am now wondering if this caps-only could be the reason for
why the text isn't wrapping when I'm schrinking the table width.

>
It isn't. But caps-only is generally bad for other reasons. It's less
legible, and it MAKES YOU LOOK CHILDISH OR WORSE, LIKE A LAWYER WHO
CANNOT STOP SHOUTING AND REGARDS THAT AS PROFESSIONAL AND LEGALLY
BINDING.
>

Please do not suggest using divs and css at this moment.

>
Why would we? You seem to have the weird idea that tables are bad.
>

I know how to do that,

>
I very much doubt that.
>

All I want to know at this moment is if caps is causing problems when
rendering the tables nested of course...

>
Then you cannot be helped. If you don't want to know the solution to
your real problem, it would be pointless to offer some solutions to some
non-problems that you don't actually describe.
>
Tables nested? Well there you surely have a problem.
>
--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

Hi Jukka,

No I don't see Tables as a bad thing, it's just that I've learned over
the past that sometimes those who answers don't quite get why you
can't use what is appropriate and the correct way of doing things.

I'll contact you off list to show you the problem.

-trond-

[John Hosking]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

trondhuso wrote:

On 2 Mai, 10:02, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

>Scripsit trondhuso:
>>

>>I have a solution that - at time of writing - has to use tables to
>>render a list of database-results.

>A table is usually the _adequate_ way to present database results,
>especially if the results consist of set of records, each divided into
>items (fields) in the same way. It would be most natural to present this
>as an HTML table structure, with columns corresponding to the items.
>>
>So I don't quite understand the "has to" part.
>>

Hi Jukka,
>
No I don't see Tables as a bad thing, it's just that I've learned over
the past that sometimes those who answers don't quite get why you
can't use what is appropriate and the correct way of doing things.

I would have been nice had you also learned to trim posts when you reply
to them.

>
I'll contact you off list to show you the problem.

Why don't you contact him on-list to show us all the problem?


--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/

[trondhuso]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

On 2 Mai, 12:20, John Hosking <J...@DELETE.Ho sking.name.INVA LID>
wrote:

trondhuso wrote:

On 2 Mai, 10:02, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

>
>

I'll contact you off list to show you the problem.

>
Why don't you contact him on-list to show us all the problem?
>
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP:http://improve-usenet.org/

Dear John,

Below you can find the link to the problematic site:

http://www.ntb.no/pressemeldinger/

The "problem" (challenge) is to remove the scrollbars that comes up
because we are using iframe...

best

Trond

[John Hosking]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

trondhuso wrote:

On 2 Mai, 12:20, John Hosking wrote:

>trondhuso wrote:

>>On 2 Mai, 10:02, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

>>

>>I'll contact you off list to show you the problem.

>Why don't you contact him on-list to show us all the problem?
>>
>--
>John
>Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/

Better, mostly. ;-)
*Next time* you trim the post to which you reply, make sure to trim the
sig, too. Extraneous attributions can go, as well (you snipped your OP
and Jukka's answer, but left the attributions, as I have also done this
time).

>
Below you can find the link to the problematic site:

http://www.ntb.no/pressemeldinger/

>
The "problem" (challenge) is to remove the scrollbars that comes up
because we are using iframe...

Well, somewhere in that mess you almost certainly have a width (likely
more than once) set in pixels, where your texts are longer across than
that size in pixels. Depends on the font-face and -size, I notice. I
suspect the <table width="150" code, but I'm not at all sure. Maybe
if, instead of 150px, you used something like 16em, you'd solve the problem.

I can't use my inspection and code-editing tools on framed sites, so I
don't think I can be of more help.

BTW, that's pretty small text (especially the blue links on the
light-blue background), and, since the page has such a long delay, I'm
thinking that maybe a good approach would be to remove one or two of
these framed columns. Then you'd have more room for legibly-sized text,
no scrollbars, and the page would presumably load faster. Through my
language deficiencies I can't tell whether the content lends itself to a
breakup like that, but it's my best (tentative) recommendation (given
the other constraints you mentioned).

--
John
Read about the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/

[trondhuso]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

>

>

Below you can find the link to the problematic site:
http://www.ntb.no/pressemeldinger/

>

The "problem" (challenge) is to remove the scrollbars that comes up
because we are using iframe...

>
Well, somewhere in that mess you almost certainly have a width (likely
more than once) set in pixels, where your texts are longer across than
that size in pixels. Depends on the font-face and -size, I notice. I
suspect the <table width="150" code, but I'm not at all sure. Maybe
if, instead of 150px, you used something like 16em, you'd solve the problem.

I'll look into this.

>
I can't use my inspection and code-editing tools on framed sites.

http://www.ntb.no/articles.aspx?Section=BWI would give you the output
of the file in the middle iframe.

>
BTW, that's pretty small text (especially the blue links on the
light-blue background), and, since the page has such a long delay, I'm
thinking that maybe a good approach would be to remove one or two of
these framed columns. Then you'd have more room for legibly-sized text,
no scrollbars, and the page would presumably load faster. Through my
language deficiencies I can't tell whether the content lends itself to a
breakup like that, but it's my best (tentative) recommendation (given
the other constraints you mentioned).

I totally agree with you on the suggestion of removing one or two of
these iframes, or lets say creating a two by two "grid". Unfortunately
those above me wants the lists of press releases shown on pages that
are not bigger than 640x800 (although the standard now is 800x1024 or
something). So I am sort of ordered to keep in side the size of page
that I have right now. I can of course make the i frames lower and
then creating a "grid" that way.

Hope I trimmed the reply better this time.

-t-

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

Scripsit trondhuso:

I totally agree with you on the suggestion of removing one or two of
these iframes, or lets say creating a two by two "grid". Unfortunately
those above me wants the lists of press releases shown on pages that
are not bigger than 640x800 (although the standard now is 800x1024 or
something).

Sorry, but this sounds like your bosses _and_ you are too clueless in
basics of web publishing. It's pointless to try to "fix" design that is
inherently broken. Does anyone care to _read_ such foolishly small text
is pointlessly narrow columns that the design has led to? Have you, or
have your bosses ever tried to _use_ the information that the site
offers?

So I am sort of ordered to keep in side the size of page
that I have right now.

Sigh. The size is not the issue. The issue is completely broken design.
Don't waste any time in fine-tuning something like that.

Was wrapping the issue? Forget it. You didn't specify any example of the
phenomenon you thought to have seen ("caps in table cause none
wrapping"), but that doesn't matter. The text _cannot_ wrap decently
anyway when squeezed into such narrow columns (oddly wasting space for
something, so that the iframes are much wider than the text columns).
And it wouldn't matter anyway, since who would really _read_ such poorly
presented data, anyway?

Hope I trimmed the reply better this time.

You still have a long way to go in posting to Usenet, too.

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[Jim Moe]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

On 05/02/08 03:49 am, trondhuso wrote:

>
Below you can find the link to the problematic site:

http://www.ntb.no/pressemeldinger/

>
The "problem" (challenge) is to remove the scrollbars that comes up
because we are using iframe...
>

You get the scroll bars (I assume you are incensed about the horizontal
ones) because some of the text is too wide to fit in the window. Long
strings without spaces + narrow windows = scroll bars.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[John Hosking]

Re: Does caps in table cause none wrapping

trondhuso wrote:

http://www.ntb.no/articles.aspx?Section=BWI would give you the output
of the file in the middle iframe.

Yes, I eventually worked that out. Three-deep nested frames must be a
pain to have to maintain, though.

>

>BTW, that's pretty small text (especially the blue links on the
>light-blue background), and, since the page has such a long delay, I'm
>thinking that maybe a good approach would be to remove one or two of
>these framed columns. Then you'd have more room for legibly-sized text,
>no scrollbars, and the page would presumably load faster. [...]

I totally agree with you on the suggestion of removing one or two of
these iframes, or lets say creating a two by two "grid". Unfortunately
those above me wants the lists of press releases shown on pages that
are not bigger than 640x800 (although the standard now is 800x1024 or
something). So I am sort of ordered to keep in side the size of page
that I have right now. I can of course make the i frames lower and
then creating a "grid" that way.

The question which is still open for me is whether *three* columns of
these things are necessary ("mandatory" ) on one page.

I gather these are press releases from three different divisions or
corporations or news agencies. Would not a separate page for all the
current press releases for BWI be appropriate, with a separate page for
all those from NTBPRM, and another for all those from OBI? Each page
could have the banner up top and menu on the left, and the content would
be a table or <ulof all the current announcements (actually links to
said announcements, which I see just now are sized at an illegible 10px
:-( ).

If you want a dynamic, constantly-refreshing (I mean -updating) page of
the latest exciting news flashes, make the current page you have like
that, but with only the one or two most recent announcements for the
three agencies, and links to the whole lists for the three.

Having these three columns all on one page, positioned above one another
in the y-direction, *even if they are two or three times wider* would
not IMO be an improvement, or even usable.

>
Hope I trimmed the reply better this time.

Getting closer. I meant you should trim sigs and other text in the post
you're quoting in your reply. Without distorting the meaning of previous
statements, reduce the quoted text to the minimum amount necessary to
provide context for your responses.

When removing past contributions, remove also the attribution lines for
those contributions, but leave attributions for quoted text. In your
previous mail, you left an attribution
'On 2 Mai, 10:02, "Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:'
but took out everything Jukka wrote. See the confusion that causes?

This time, you left the words but trimmed out the attributions. So who
said what?

See, e.g., the text (and the whole rest of the page) at

http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm#quote

--
John
Going back to read about the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/