Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast topointer to element

[Szabolcs Borsanyi]

I know that this topic has been discussed a lot, still I'd appreciate
a clear cut (and correct) answer:
I pass a multidimensiona l array to a function, which is defined as
int f(int a[10][10])
{
int *b=(void*)a;
int *c=a[0];
/*...*/
}
Now the questions come:
- Is it guaranteed that b and c points to the same object (or is this
implementation defined)?
- Is it always true that a[1][1] refers to the same object as c[11] ?
(There is no hole)
- Does dereferencing b violate any aliasing rule?

Thanks
Szabolcs

[pete]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array castto pointer to element

Szabolcs Borsanyi wrote:

I know that this topic has been discussed a lot, still I'd appreciate
a clear cut (and correct) answer:
I pass a multidimensiona l array to a function, which is defined as
int f(int a[10][10])
{
int *b=(void*)a;
int *c=a[0];
/*...*/
}
Now the questions come:
- Is it guaranteed that b and c points to the same object (or is this
implementation defined)?

This is the only guarantee you have with that kind of conversion:
N869
6.3.2.3 Pointers

[#1] A pointer to void may be converted to or from a pointer
to any incomplete or object type. A pointer to any
incomplete or object type may be converted to a pointer to
void and back again; the result shall compare equal to the
original pointer.

- Is it always true that a[1][1] refers to the same object as c[11] ?
(There is no hole)

c[11] is undefined.

- Does dereferencing b violate any aliasing rule?

--
pete

[Barry Schwarz]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast to pointer to element

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:46:56 -0700 (PDT), Szabolcs Borsanyi
<borsanyi@thphy s.uni-heidelberg.dewr ote:

>I know that this topic has been discussed a lot, still I'd appreciate
>a clear cut (and correct) answer:
>I pass a multidimensiona l array to a function, which is defined as
>int f(int a[10][10])
>{
int *b=(void*)a;
int *c=a[0];
/*...*/
>}
>Now the questions come:
>- Is it guaranteed that b and c points to the same object (or is this
>implementati on defined)?

It is true that a, a[0], and a[0][0] all start at the same address, to
be called THE ADDRESS below.

In your first assignment, the expression a is converted by the
compiler to the value and type of &a[0]. You then cast this to void*
and then implicitly convert it to an int*. Since the value (address)
is properly aligned for an int, everything is well defined and you end
with THE ADDRESS in the form of an int*.

In your second assignment, the expression a[0] is converted to the
value and type of &a[0][0] which is already an int* and assigned to an
int* with no conversion needed. You also end up with THE ADDRESS in
the form of an int*.

So b and c point to the same address and treat that address as the
address of an int. The answer to your question is yes they do and no
it is not implementation defined but a standard part of the language.

>- Is it always true that a[1][1] refers to the same object as c[11] ?
>(There is no hole)

This is one for the language lawyers. Does c[11] (or even c[10])
exist from a purist point of view. There has been plenty of
discussion previously in this group. As a practical matter, I don't
believe anyone has identified a system where it doesn't work.

>- Does dereferencing b violate any aliasing rule?

Dereferencing b results in an int. Since b does in fact point to an
int there is no conflict. See section 6.5-7.


Remove del for email

[David Thompson]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast to pointer to element

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:46:56 -0700 (PDT), Szabolcs Borsanyi
<borsanyi@thphy s.uni-heidelberg.dewr ote:

I know that this topic has been discussed a lot, still I'd appreciate
a clear cut (and correct) answer:
I pass a multidimensiona l array to a function, which is defined as
int f(int a[10][10])

Just to be clear, I assume you understand this actually declares a the
same type as int (*a) [10] . The C language allows you to pass e.g.
x[N][10] for any N (>0) as the argument to this parameter, and access
a[i][j] for i up to N and j up to 10 exclusive.

{
int *b=(void*)a;
int *c=a[0];
/*...*/
}
Now the questions come:
- Is it guaranteed that b and c points to the same object (or is this
implementation defined)?

They're guaranteed to point to the same (one) int. It is theoretically
arguable how many of the following int's they can access; see below.

- Is it always true that a[1][1] refers to the same object as c[11] ?
(There is no hole)

It is guaranteed there is no hole between array elements, at any
level; thus a[0][0] is followed immediately by a[0][1], and a[0] as a
whole is followed immediately by a[1] as a whole, therefore a[0][9] is
followed immediately by a[1][0].

And so it is guaranteed &a[0][10] == &a[1][0]. And, for example,
memcpy (tempi, (char*)a + 12*sizeof(int), sizeof(int))
will get you the value of a[1][2], and the reverse will set it.

According to the strict abstract semantics, you can't dereference
&a[0][10] and can't form &a[0][11] or higher at all. I believe that in
these strict abstract semantics the pointer you store into c _may_
retain this limitation, and thus c[10] and c[11] etc. might not work.
However, I don't know of, and to my knowledge no one has posted about,
any compiler that actually tries to do this. In practice, accessing 2D
(or higher) as 1D row-major works, and so much existing code assumes
this no sane C implementor will break it without very good reason.

- Does dereferencing b violate any aliasing rule?
>

*b for a[0][0] is definitely OK, but I assume you are actually
concerned with more like b[12]. As above, it's not absolutely clear
how much of a (or the argument e.g. x) you are strictly guaranteed
able to access through the 'voided' b. In practice it will be all.

- formerly david.thompson1 || achar(64) || worldnet.att.ne t

[Szabolcs Borsanyi]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast topointer to element

On May 19, 4:59 am, David Thompson <dave.thomps... @verizon.netwro te:

On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:46:56 -0700 (PDT), Szabolcs Borsanyi
>
<borsa...@thphy s.uni-heidelberg.dewr ote:

I know that this topic has been discussed a lot, still I'd appreciate
a clear cut (and correct) answer:
I pass a multidimensiona l array to a function, which is defined as
int f(int a[10][10])

>
Just to be clear, I assume you understand this actually declares a the
same type as int (*a) [10] . The C language allows you to pass e.g.

Your assumption is correct.

>

{
int *b=(void*)a;
int *c=a[0];
/*...*/
}
Now the questions come:
- Is it guaranteed that b and c points to the same object (or is this
implementation defined)?

>
They're guaranteed to point to the same (one) int. It is theoretically
arguable how many of the following int's they can access; see below.
>

- Is it always true that a[1][1] refers to the same object as c[11] ?
(There is no hole)

>
It is guaranteed there is no hole between array elements, at any
level; thus a[0][0] is followed immediately by a[0][1], and a[0] as a
whole is followed immediately by a[1] as a whole, therefore a[0][9] is
followed immediately by a[1][0].

Thanks, that's an important information. In covers that same statement
that is actually being discussed in an other thread subjected as
"Address of an array = address of its 1st".

So I am happy to learn that there may no be an array overhead (data
that belongs to the array and stored in the array before the first
element)

And so it is guaranteed &a[0][10] == &a[1][0]. And, for example,
memcpy (tempi, (char*)a + 12*sizeof(int), sizeof(int))
will get you the value of a[1][2], and the reverse will set it.

Good.

According to the strict abstract semantics, you can't dereference
&a[0][10] and can't form &a[0][11] or higher at all.

I think this statement of yours is in contradiction with the previous
one.
&a[0][10] is equivalent to a[0]+10. For those who forgot: a[0] is
an array of ten integers. That is why you say, *&a[0][10], or a[0][10]
is not correct. But in fact, here this array (a[0]) decays to a
pointer,
so &a[0][10] is &a[0][0]+10. From this you claimed that it compares
equal to &a[1][0], and if two pointers compare equal and are of the
same type, and one of them points to an object within its lifetime,
then
the other pointer points to the same object, and hence, it can also be
dereferenced.

Szabolcs

[Szabolcs Borsanyi]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array castto pointer to element

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:14:42AM -0700, Szabolcs Borsanyi wrote:

I've cut a discussion about a in the body of
int f(int (*a)[10])

&a[0][10] is equivalent to a[0]+10. For those who forgot: a[0] is
an array of ten integers. That is why you say, *&a[0][10], or a[0][10]
is not correct. But in fact, here this array (a[0]) decays to a
pointer,
so &a[0][10] is &a[0][0]+10. From this you claimed that it compares
equal to &a[1][0], and if two pointers compare equal and are of the
same type, and one of them points to an object within its lifetime,
then
the other pointer points to the same object, and hence, it can also be
dereferenced.
>
Szabolcs

Here I have to correct myself.

C99 6.5.9:

6 Two pointers compare equal if and only if both are null pointers, both
are pointers to the same object (including a pointer to an object and a
subobject at its beginning) or function, both are pointers to one past the
last element of the same array object, or one is a pointer to one past the
end of one array object and the other is a pointer to the start of a
different array object that happens to immediately follow the first array
object in the address space.
------

So if two pointers are equal, and one of the points to an object,
they do not need to point to the same object.
Strange isn't it...

Szabolcs

[Ben Bacarisse]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast to pointer to element

Szabolcs Borsanyi <borsanyi@thphy s.uni-heidelberg.dewr ites:

On May 19, 4:59 am, David Thompson <dave.thomps... @verizon.netwro te:

<snip>

>It is guaranteed there is no hole between array elements, at any
>level; thus a[0][0] is followed immediately by a[0][1], and a[0] as a
>whole is followed immediately by a[1] as a whole, therefore a[0][9] is
>followed immediately by a[1][0].

>
Thanks, that's an important information. In covers that same statement
that is actually being discussed in an other thread subjected as
"Address of an array = address of its 1st".

I think this is not quite the same thing. There two things involved:
one is that there are no holes, the other is that a pointer to the
whole object will compare equal (when suitably converted) to a pointer
to an initial sub-object. There are specific and separate guarantees
about both.

So I am happy to learn that there may no be an array overhead (data
that belongs to the array and stored in the array before the first
element)
>

>And so it is guaranteed &a[0][10] == &a[1][0]. And, for example,
>memcpy (tempi, (char*)a + 12*sizeof(int), sizeof(int))
>will get you the value of a[1][2], and the reverse will set it.

>
Good.
>

>According to the strict abstract semantics, you can't dereference
>&a[0][10] and can't form &a[0][11] or higher at all.

>
I think this statement of yours is in contradiction with the previous
one.

No, there is no contradiction. The standard is worded to allow
a pointer (at least in some cases) to know its bounds, i.e., the
extent of the thing it points to. The conversion to, and access via,
a char * is specifically guaranteed. De-referencing the pointer
&a[0][10] and constructing &a[0][11] are not although, of course, the
behaviour is undefined so it is perfectly OK for it to work (as it
does on most implementations ).

&a[0][10] is equivalent to a[0]+10. For those who forgot: a[0] is
an array of ten integers. That is why you say, *&a[0][10], or a[0][10]
is not correct. But in fact, here this array (a[0]) decays to a
pointer,
so &a[0][10] is &a[0][0]+10. From this you claimed that it compares
equal to &a[1][0], and if two pointers compare equal and are of the
same type, and one of them points to an object within its lifetime,
then
the other pointer points to the same object, and hence, it can also be
dereferenced.

That is not guaranteed. &a[0][10] can be constructed because it is a
"one past the end" pointer, but you can't de-reference it. Well, you
probably can, but it is UB to do so. You have to image two pointers
that compare equal because they discard the bounds information at that
point, but one can't be de-referenced because the bounds kick in.

--
Ben.

[Ben Bacarisse]

Re: Once again pointer to first element vs pointer to array cast to pointer to element

Szabolcs Borsanyi <s.borsanyi@sus sex.ac.ukwrites :

<snip>

Here I have to correct myself.
>
C99 6.5.9:
>
6 Two pointers compare equal if and only if both are null pointers, both
are pointers to the same object (including a pointer to an object and a
subobject at its beginning) or function, both are pointers to one past the
last element of the same array object, or one is a pointer to one past the
end of one array object and the other is a pointer to the start of a
different array object that happens to immediately follow the first array
object in the address space.
------
>
So if two pointers are equal, and one of the points to an object,
they do not need to point to the same object.
Strange isn't it...

Yes. I think my previous reply may now be redundant. Sorry for the
noise.

--
Ben.