Opinions about a book

[nembo kid]

What do you think about the following book:

C How to Program, 5/E
(Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.

<http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324041 68,00.html>

Thanks in advance.

[Richard Heathfield]

Re: Opinions about a book

nembo kid said:

What do you think about the following book:
>
C How to Program, 5/E
(Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.
>
>

<http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324041 68,00.html>

Prentice Hall were kind enough to send me a copy of this book, but
unfortunately either it has popped out for a pizza and a pint or it's
somewhere on my desk (possibly several strata down), so I can't refer to
it in this reply.

From memory, then:

It's a big book, but that's fixable. If you remove the second half of the
book (which isn't actually about C at all), you can save enough carrying
capacity for not just K&R2 but also "C: A Reference Manual" (Harbison &
Steele).

It's not a clueless book by any means. The authors generally go to some
trouble to learn the languages they write about, and they certainly know
their C.

The explanations are reasonable, and the exercises thought-provoking on
occasion.

Overall, it's a book I can recommend. If ever it re-surfaces, I may take
the time to write a more detailed review (or, to be perfectly honest, I
may not).

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

[Robert Gamble]

Re: Opinions about a book

On May 4, 4:19 pm, nembo kid <nembo@kidwrote :

What do you think about the following book:
>
C How to Program, 5/E
(Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.
>
<http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324... >
>
Thanks in advance.

Deitel has some fine programming books, their Java How to Program (7th
ed) is excellent, however they don't seem to have done as well with
their C books. For me the text can be overly verbose and contrived,
the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
interested in, and if I was interested in these things there are books
dedicated to the topics that provide a much better treatment. I would
suggest you check out C Programming: A Modern Approach 2nd Edition
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393979504/knkingwhich just
came out, focuses completely on C and is a fair bit cheaper than
Deitel's offering.

--
Robert Gamble

[lawrence.jones@siemens.com]

Re: Opinions about a book

Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:

>
the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
interested in

Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
in, is cursory at best.

-- Larry Jones

Everybody's a slave to routine. -- Calvin

[Richard Heathfield]

Re: Opinions about a book

lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:

Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:

>>
>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
>interested in

>
Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
in, is cursory at best.

Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

[arnuld]

Re: Opinions about a book

On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:

Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?

I think it is a good idea to have this:

for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)


rather than this:

int i;

for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )


that way, i is localized. It is a very good idea if i exists primarily for
for loop. It will not pollute the the other namespaces.


Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant. That's good
thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P





--

http://lispmachine.wordpress.com/

my email ID is @ the above address

[Richard Heathfield]

Re: Opinions about a book

arnuld said:

>On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:

>

>Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about
>it?

>
>
I think it is a good idea to have this:
>
for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)
>
>
rather than this:
>
int i;
>
for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )

<shrugThat doesn't answer my question.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

[Nick Bowler]

Re: Opinions about a book

On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:00:26 +0500, arnuld wrote:

<snip>

Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant. That's good
thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P

No, const doesn't do this in C99. However, variable length arrays allow
you to use non-constant expressions in automatic array declarations.

[cr88192]

Re: Opinions about a book


"Richard Heathfield" <rjh@see.sig.in validwrote in message
news:U5Odnb-3VJ34F4PVnZ2dnU VZ8qLinZ2d@bt.c om...

lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
>

>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:

>>>
>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
>>interested in

>>
>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
>in, is cursory at best.

>
Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
>

long long and _Complex, of course...

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

[Ian Collins]

Re: Opinions about a book

Richard Heathfield wrote:

lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
>

>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:

>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
>>interested in

>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
>in, is cursory at best.

>
Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
>

Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.

--
Ian Collins.

[Ian Collins]

Re: Opinions about a book

Ian Collins wrote:

Richard Heathfield wrote:

>lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
>>

>>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
>>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
>>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
>>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
>>>interested in
>>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
>>in, is cursory at best.

>Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
>>

Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.
>

interested..

--
Ian Collins.

[Richard Heathfield]

Re: Opinions about a book

Ian Collins said:

Richard Heathfield wrote:

>lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
>>

>>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
>>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
>>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
>>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
>>>interested in
>>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
>>in, is cursory at best.

>>
>Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about
>it?
>>

Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.

Fine, I can understand that *some* people are interested (or even
interesting!) in C99. But Larry said that *most* people should be
interested. I seem to have munged that to "everyone" in my reply, so I
should modify my question to: why should *most* people be interested in
C99?

Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99 (which I
don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't explain why they
*should* be.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

[jacob navia]

Re: Opinions about a book

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99 (which I
don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't explain why they
*should* be.
>

Because is standard C. And your fight against it has failed. It is the
standard and you will not be able to change that fact.

You are the one that always complains about my compiler system being
"nonstandar d" but you are the one the fights the standard as much as you
can.



--
jacob navia
jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
logiciels/informatique

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

[Martin Ambuhl]

Re: Opinions about a book

arnuld wrote:

>On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:

>

>Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?

>
>
I think it is a good idea to have this:
>
for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)
>
>
rather than this:
>
int i;
>
for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )
>
>
that way, i is localized. It is a very good idea if i exists primarily for
for loop. It will not pollute the the other namespaces.

{
int i;
for (i = 0; i != N; ++i) /* nothing */ ;
}

"is localized" and "will not pollute the other namespaces".
I suppose that by now all current compilers get the duration of i in
for (int i = 0; i != N; ++i) /* nothing */ ;
right, but it wasn't always so. And it is not the same as in the block
version.

Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant.

Well, you recall incorrectly.

That's good
thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P

If you depend on something that isn't true, it's _not_ a good thing.

[Richard Heathfield]

Re: Opinions about a book

jacob navia said:

Richard Heathfield wrote:

>Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99
>(which I don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't
>explain why they *should* be.
>>

>
Because is standard C.

This still doesn't explain why most people should be interested in it.

And your fight against it has failed.

I don't see why you think I'm fighting against C99. There's nothing to
fight.

It is the standard and you will not be able to change that fact.

What use is a standard if hardly anyone uses it or is interested in it?

>
You are the one that always complains about my compiler system being
"nonstandar d" but you are the one the fights the standard as much as you
can.

Are you claiming that lcc-win32 is now C99-conforming? If not, then you are
demonstrating that at least one implementor doesn't care enough about C99
to implement it. In the face of massive indifference from implementors,
it's actually pretty hard to be interested in C99 even if you want to be.

Please note that, when C99 is as widely implemented as C89, nobody will be
better pleased than I, because we won't have all these silly arguments.
We'll still have silly arguments, of course, but they'll be different
ones.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999