Opinions about a book

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  • nembo kid

    Opinions about a book

    What do you think about the following book:

    C How to Program, 5/E
    (Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.

    <http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324041 68,00.html>

    Thanks in advance.
  • Richard Heathfield

    #2
    Re: Opinions about a book

    nembo kid said:
    What do you think about the following book:
    >
    C How to Program, 5/E
    (Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.
    >
    >
    <http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324041 68,00.html>

    Prentice Hall were kind enough to send me a copy of this book, but
    unfortunately either it has popped out for a pizza and a pint or it's
    somewhere on my desk (possibly several strata down), so I can't refer to
    it in this reply.

    From memory, then:

    It's a big book, but that's fixable. If you remove the second half of the
    book (which isn't actually about C at all), you can save enough carrying
    capacity for not just K&R2 but also "C: A Reference Manual" (Harbison &
    Steele).

    It's not a clueless book by any means. The authors generally go to some
    trouble to learn the languages they write about, and they certainly know
    their C.

    The explanations are reasonable, and the exercises thought-provoking on
    occasion.

    Overall, it's a book I can recommend. If ever it re-surfaces, I may take
    the time to write a more detailed review (or, to be perfectly honest, I
    may not).

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

    Comment

    • Robert Gamble

      #3
      Re: Opinions about a book

      On May 4, 4:19 pm, nembo kid <nembo@kidwrote :
      What do you think about the following book:
      >
      C How to Program, 5/E
      (Harvey & Paul) Deitel & Associates, Inc.
      >
      <http://www.pearsonhigh ered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,01324... >
      >
      Thanks in advance.
      Deitel has some fine programming books, their Java How to Program (7th
      ed) is excellent, however they don't seem to have done as well with
      their C books. For me the text can be overly verbose and contrived,
      the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
      and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
      $100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
      interested in, and if I was interested in these things there are books
      dedicated to the topics that provide a much better treatment. I would
      suggest you check out C Programming: A Modern Approach 2nd Edition
      <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393979504/knkingwhich just
      came out, focuses completely on C and is a fair bit cheaper than
      Deitel's offering.

      --
      Robert Gamble

      Comment

      • lawrence.jones@siemens.com

        #4
        Re: Opinions about a book

        Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
        >
        the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
        and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
        $100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
        interested in
        Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
        in, is cursory at best.

        -- Larry Jones

        Everybody's a slave to routine. -- Calvin

        Comment

        • Richard Heathfield

          #5
          Re: Opinions about a book

          lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
          Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
          >>
          >the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
          >and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
          >$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
          >interested in
          >
          Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
          in, is cursory at best.
          Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?

          --
          Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
          Email: -http://www. +rjh@
          Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
          "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

          Comment

          • arnuld

            #6
            Re: Opinions about a book

            On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:
            Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?

            I think it is a good idea to have this:

            for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)


            rather than this:

            int i;

            for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )


            that way, i is localized. It is a very good idea if i exists primarily for
            for loop. It will not pollute the the other namespaces.


            Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant. That's good
            thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P





            --

            my email ID is @ the above address

            Comment

            • Richard Heathfield

              #7
              Re: Opinions about a book

              arnuld said:
              >On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:
              >
              >Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about
              >it?
              >
              >
              I think it is a good idea to have this:
              >
              for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)
              >
              >
              rather than this:
              >
              int i;
              >
              for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )
              <shrugThat doesn't answer my question.

              --
              Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
              Email: -http://www. +rjh@
              Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
              "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

              Comment

              • Nick Bowler

                #8
                Re: Opinions about a book

                On Mon, 05 May 2008 21:00:26 +0500, arnuld wrote:

                <snip>
                Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant. That's good
                thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P
                No, const doesn't do this in C99. However, variable length arrays allow
                you to use non-constant expressions in automatic array declarations.

                Comment

                • cr88192

                  #9
                  Re: Opinions about a book


                  "Richard Heathfield" <rjh@see.sig.in validwrote in message
                  news:U5Odnb-3VJ34F4PVnZ2dnU VZ8qLinZ2d@bt.c om...
                  lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
                  >
                  >Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
                  >>>
                  >>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
                  >>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
                  >>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
                  >>interested in
                  >>
                  >Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
                  >in, is cursory at best.
                  >
                  Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
                  >
                  long long and _Complex, of course...

                  --
                  Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
                  Email: -http://www. +rjh@
                  Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
                  "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

                  Comment

                  • Ian Collins

                    #10
                    Re: Opinions about a book

                    Richard Heathfield wrote:
                    lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
                    >
                    >Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
                    >>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
                    >>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
                    >>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
                    >>interested in
                    >Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
                    >in, is cursory at best.
                    >
                    Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
                    >
                    Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.

                    --
                    Ian Collins.

                    Comment

                    • Ian Collins

                      #11
                      Re: Opinions about a book

                      Ian Collins wrote:
                      Richard Heathfield wrote:
                      >lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
                      >>
                      >>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
                      >>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
                      >>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
                      >>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
                      >>>interested in
                      >>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
                      >>in, is cursory at best.
                      >Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
                      >>
                      Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.
                      >
                      interested..

                      --
                      Ian Collins.

                      Comment

                      • Richard Heathfield

                        #12
                        Re: Opinions about a book

                        Ian Collins said:
                        Richard Heathfield wrote:
                        >lawrence.jones@ siemens.com said:
                        >>
                        >>Robert Gamble <rgamble99@gmai l.comwrote:
                        >>>the fact that a significant portion of the book is dedicated to C++
                        >>>and Allegro (a video game library) is a big turn-off for me. For over
                        >>>$100 I don't want half the text devoted to something I am not
                        >>>interested in
                        >>Also, their treatment of C99, which most people *should* be interested
                        >>in, is cursory at best.
                        >>
                        >Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about
                        >it?
                        >>
                        Some of us use it and sad as it may sound, are interesting in it.
                        Fine, I can understand that *some* people are interested (or even
                        interesting!) in C99. But Larry said that *most* people should be
                        interested. I seem to have munged that to "everyone" in my reply, so I
                        should modify my question to: why should *most* people be interested in
                        C99?

                        Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99 (which I
                        don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't explain why they
                        *should* be.

                        --
                        Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
                        Email: -http://www. +rjh@
                        Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
                        "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

                        Comment

                        • jacob navia

                          #13
                          Re: Opinions about a book

                          Richard Heathfield wrote:
                          Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99 (which I
                          don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't explain why they
                          *should* be.
                          >
                          Because is standard C. And your fight against it has failed. It is the
                          standard and you will not be able to change that fact.

                          You are the one that always complains about my compiler system being
                          "nonstandar d" but you are the one the fights the standard as much as you
                          can.



                          --
                          jacob navia
                          jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
                          logiciels/informatique

                          Comment

                          • Martin Ambuhl

                            #14
                            Re: Opinions about a book

                            arnuld wrote:
                            >On Mon, 05 May 2008 04:21:49 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:
                            >
                            >Why should everyone be interested in C99? What's so interesting about it?
                            >
                            >
                            I think it is a good idea to have this:
                            >
                            for( int i = 0; i != N; ++i)
                            >
                            >
                            rather than this:
                            >
                            int i;
                            >
                            for( i = 0;, i != N; ++i )
                            >
                            >
                            that way, i is localized. It is a very good idea if i exists primarily for
                            for loop. It will not pollute the the other namespaces.
                            {
                            int i;
                            for (i = 0; i != N; ++i) /* nothing */ ;
                            }

                            "is localized" and "will not pollute the other namespaces".
                            I suppose that by now all current compilers get the duration of i in
                            for (int i = 0; i != N; ++i) /* nothing */ ;
                            right, but it wasn't always so. And it is not the same as in the block
                            version.
                            Also, IIRC, const in C99, makes a compile time constant.
                            Well, you recall incorrectly.
                            That's good
                            thing too. At least, I don't have to use enum for array size :P
                            If you depend on something that isn't true, it's _not_ a good thing.

                            Comment

                            • Richard Heathfield

                              #15
                              Re: Opinions about a book

                              jacob navia said:
                              Richard Heathfield wrote:
                              >Even if it could be shown that most people *are* interested in C99
                              >(which I don't think anyone is really claiming), it still wouldn't
                              >explain why they *should* be.
                              >>
                              >
                              Because is standard C.
                              This still doesn't explain why most people should be interested in it.
                              And your fight against it has failed.
                              I don't see why you think I'm fighting against C99. There's nothing to
                              fight.
                              It is the standard and you will not be able to change that fact.
                              What use is a standard if hardly anyone uses it or is interested in it?
                              >
                              You are the one that always complains about my compiler system being
                              "nonstandar d" but you are the one the fights the standard as much as you
                              can.
                              Are you claiming that lcc-win32 is now C99-conforming? If not, then you are
                              demonstrating that at least one implementor doesn't care enough about C99
                              to implement it. In the face of massive indifference from implementors,
                              it's actually pretty hard to be interested in C99 even if you want to be.

                              Please note that, when C99 is as widely implemented as C89, nobody will be
                              better pleased than I, because we won't have all these silly arguments.
                              We'll still have silly arguments, of course, but they'll be different
                              ones.

                              --
                              Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk >
                              Email: -http://www. +rjh@
                              Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
                              "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

                              Comment

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