Re: Network modules

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  • Antoninus Twink

    Re: Network modules

    On 14 Apr 2008 at 7:36, InuY4sha wrote:
    >Your question isn't about the C language, which is what we discuss
    >here. Assuming the kernel in question is Linux, you should ask in one
    >of the Linux newsgroups (possibly linux.dev.kerne l, but check the
    >newsgroup first; all I know about it is that it exists).
    >
    I don't agree too much... my question is not about syntax in C, that's
    true, but it's correlated with C. In any case, the NG linux.dev.kerne l
    seems to be dead since a long long time ago; What is left to me is a
    couple of other groups with really few members. This one is probably
    the best chance for me to get some information..
    [snip]
    In this case I'm posting my question here with the sole idea in mind
    to query a large number of people that could be familiar with what I'm
    investigating. You can say that the method is not so much orthodox,
    but it's effective.
    Indeed I got an answer (and a good one), and I don't think that this
    post can damage the NG more than any other spam message (I see
    thounsands in this NG).
    Thanks - I'm glad it was helpful.

    As you've discovered, some of the regular posters here believe strongly
    that the limits of topicality in this group should be defined extremely
    strictly. Most groups have a FAQ to avoid repeating the same thing over
    and over again; clc is the opposite - many people believe that the
    questions already answered in the FAQ are pretty well the only thing
    that's topical!

    As I said, this is the belief of some posters here. The fact that they
    express this view aggressively and authoritatively , and claim to speak
    for the whole group, doesn't change the fact that it's just the belief
    of a certain fraction of the posters.

    Others would like to see this newsgroup be a vibrant forum where
    real-life C developers can discuss all aspects of C programming in the
    real world. Attempting to achieve this utopia by patiently convincing
    the people described above by reasoned argument is doomed to failure.
    It's best to ignore them, and just get on with asking interesting C
    questions, and providing useful answers.

    Please don't be discouraged from posting further questions here! There
    are many experts here, on everything from Windows C programming to
    embedded C programming, all the way through POSIX network development,
    Linux kernel development, and everything else you can imagine. Whatever
    question you come up with, there's someone here who'll know the answer.
    Some people will refuse to tell you the answer, for the reasons
    discussed above. But the best way to encourage more people to answer
    questions in their fields of expertise is by building a positive
    atmosphere where people ask C-related questions freely and frankly, and
    where as many of those questions as possible get useful answers.

  • Kenny McCormack

    #2
    Re: Network modules

    In article <slrng073rs.2f2 .nospam@nospam. invalid>,
    the great Antoninus Twink <nospam@nospam. invalidwrote with conviction:
    ....
    >Thanks - I'm glad it was helpful.
    >
    >As you've discovered, some of the regular posters here believe strongly
    >that the limits of topicality in this group should be defined extremely
    >strictly. Most groups have a FAQ to avoid repeating the same thing over
    >and over again; clc is the opposite - many people believe that the
    >questions already answered in the FAQ are pretty well the only thing
    >that's topical!
    >
    >As I said, this is the belief of some posters here. The fact that they
    >express this view aggressively and authoritatively , and claim to speak
    >for the whole group, doesn't change the fact that it's just the belief
    >of a certain fraction of the posters.
    >
    >Others would like to see this newsgroup be a vibrant forum where
    >real-life C developers can discuss all aspects of C programming in the
    >real world. Attempting to achieve this utopia by patiently convincing
    >the people described above by reasoned argument is doomed to failure.
    >It's best to ignore them, and just get on with asking interesting C
    >questions, and providing useful answers.
    >
    >Please don't be discouraged from posting further questions here! There
    >are many experts here, on everything from Windows C programming to
    >embedded C programming, all the way through POSIX network development,
    >Linux kernel development, and everything else you can imagine. Whatever
    >question you come up with, there's someone here who'll know the answer.
    >Some people will refuse to tell you the answer, for the reasons
    >discussed above. But the best way to encourage more people to answer
    >questions in their fields of expertise is by building a positive
    >atmosphere where people ask C-related questions freely and frankly, and
    >where as many of those questions as possible get useful answers.
    >
    Hear, Hear!!!


    Comment

    • Keith Thompson

      #3
      Re: Network modules

      Antoninus Twink <nospam@nospam. invalidwrites:
      [...]
      Please don't be discouraged from posting further questions here! There
      are many experts here, on everything from Windows C programming to
      embedded C programming, all the way through POSIX network development,
      Linux kernel development, and everything else you can imagine. Whatever
      question you come up with, there's someone here who'll know the answer.
      Some people will refuse to tell you the answer, for the reasons
      discussed above. But the best way to encourage more people to answer
      questions in their fields of expertise is by building a positive
      atmosphere where people ask C-related questions freely and frankly, and
      where as many of those questions as possible get useful answers.
      (The following is addressed to InuY4sha, the original poster.)

      Yes, feel free to post questions *about the C programming language*
      here. There's plenty to discuss (no, it's not just about casting
      malloc and the return type of main).

      Your question, however, was about the Linux kernel, not about the C
      language. As such, it would have been perfectly appropriate in one of
      the Linux newsgroups. I'm not sure which one would be best, but the
      last time I looked my news server carried 700 newsgroup with "linux"
      in their names. You happened to get an answer, which might even be
      correct, but it's hard to tell since few of the people who read *this
      newsgroup* are able to verify the information.

      Not too long ago, a survey was carried out here in comp.lang.c on what
      the topicality guidelines should be. The vast majority of those who
      bothered to respond were in favor of keeping the guidelines fairly
      strict. Antoninus Twink and the other trolls were perfectly free to
      participate in the discussion, but they apparently prefer to whine
      about others while making no real contribution themselves. (AT has
      recently changed his tactics, but is no less a troll.)

      The guidelines are not arbitrary. Some years ago, comp.lang.c++
      started tolerating any posts that were even tangentially related to
      C++, including system-specific discussions that would have yielded
      better information in system-specific newsgroups. The result: the
      groups signal-to-noise ratio dropped, many of the regulars who were
      actually interested in discussing the language left, and the group
      almost died. It recovered, but only after several years.

      Suggested reading:




      And you might want to take a look at Antoninus Twink's posting
      history.

      --
      Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) <kst-u@mib.org>
      Nokia
      "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
      -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

      Comment

      • Keith Thompson

        #4
        Re: Network modules

        Richard <devr_@gmail.co mwrites:
        [...]
        It would appear that you are the troll here. If you don't agree with ATs
        posts then do not respond to them. This might surprise you - but you are
        not in charge.
        [...]

        You obviously don't agree with my posts, and yet you seem to be unable
        to resist the temptation to respond to them. Think about your own
        signal-to-noise ratio before you criticize others.

        --
        Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) <kst-u@mib.org>
        Nokia
        "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
        -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

        Comment

        • Kenny McCormack

          #5
          Re: Network modules

          In article <fu0g14$iu9$1@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
          Richard <devr_@gmail.co mwrote:
          >Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrites :
          >
          >Antoninus Twink <nospam@nospam. invalidwrites:
          >[...]
          >>Please don't be discouraged from posting further questions here! There
          >>are many experts here, on everything from Windows C programming to
          >>embedded C programming, all the way through POSIX network development,
          >>Linux kernel development, and everything else you can imagine. Whatever
          >>question you come up with, there's someone here who'll know the answer.
          >>Some people will refuse to tell you the answer, for the reasons
          >>discussed above. But the best way to encourage more people to answer
          >>questions in their fields of expertise is by building a positive
          >>atmosphere where people ask C-related questions freely and frankly, and
          >>where as many of those questions as possible get useful answers.
          >>
          >(The following is addressed to InuY4sha, the original poster.)
          InuY4sha, just ignore Keith Thompson. He is a lunatic. I think that
          should be clear by now.

          Comment

          • Kenny McCormack

            #6
            Re: Network modules

            In article <87iqyk6vne.fsf @kvetch.smov.or g>,
            Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrote:
            >Antoninus Twink <nospam@nospam. invalidwrites:
            >[...]
            >Please don't be discouraged from posting further questions here! There
            >are many experts here, on everything from Windows C programming to
            >embedded C programming, all the way through POSIX network development,
            >Linux kernel development, and everything else you can imagine. Whatever
            >question you come up with, there's someone here who'll know the answer.
            >Some people will refuse to tell you the answer, for the reasons
            >discussed above. But the best way to encourage more people to answer
            >questions in their fields of expertise is by building a positive
            >atmosphere where people ask C-related questions freely and frankly, and
            >where as many of those questions as possible get useful answers.
            >
            >(The following is addressed to InuY4sha, the original poster.)
            >
            >Yes, feel free to post questions *about the C programming language*
            >here. There's plenty to discuss (no, it's not just about casting
            >malloc and the return type of main).
            No, but as AT pointed out, CLC is unique in that the only things that
            are "on-topic" are precisely what is in the FAQ. So, in any other
            group the point of the FAQ is to list the things that are decided so
            that we don't have to talk about them - i.e., we are free to discuss
            other things. This is quite liberating. In CLC, the things in the FAQ
            (and I include "the standard" as essentially part of the FAQ - i.e., it
            is part of the exisitng body of text) are the only things that can be
            discussed. Strange, but true...

            Comment

            • Kenny McCormack

              #7
              Re: Network modules

              In article <87bq4c6sok.fsf @kvetch.smov.or g>,
              Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrote:
              >Richard <devr_@gmail.co mwrites:
              >[...]
              >It would appear that you are the troll here. If you don't agree with ATs
              >posts then do not respond to them. This might surprise you - but you are
              >not in charge.
              >[...]
              >
              >You obviously don't agree with my posts, and yet you seem to be unable
              >to resist the temptation to respond to them. Think about your own
              >signal-to-noise ratio before you criticize others.
              Pot.

              Kettle.

              Black.


              Comment

              • Richard Tobin

                #8
                Re: Network modules

                In article <fu0n7q$3t1$4@n ews.xmission.co m>,
                Kenny McCormack <gazelle@xmissi on.xmission.com wrote:
                >Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.orgwrote:
                >>Richard <devr_@gmail.co mwrites:
                [...]
                >Pot.
                >
                >Kettle.
                >
                >Black.
                Here we have a case of the pan accusing the pot of calling the kettle
                black.

                -- Richard
                --
                :wq

                Comment

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