Mystery: static variables & performance

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: Mystery: static variables & performance

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:00:10 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Sidney Cadot
<sidney@jigsaw. nl> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mark McIntyre wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Yeah, whatever. Another ottfopic nazi.[/color]
>
>Mark,
>
>I live in a country that suffered from Nazi occupation in WWII.
>Referring to someone as a nazi in an offhand way, as you do, is quite
>deeply offensive,[/color]

My apologies. It was meant to be an oblique reference to postings in this
and similar threads about the "topic nazis" that we're supposed to be round
here. Obviously I was too subtle. However IMHO you need to grow a thicker
skin if you take offense at the use of nazi in this context.

And BTW I /am/ a European. The UK is in europe too, or at least so some of
us think...


--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.c om/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc. html>


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[Mark McIntyre]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:33:07 -0700, in comp.lang.c , Mark Shelor
<mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mark McIntyre wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Yeah, whatever. Another ottfopic nazi.[/color]
>
>Make no mistake: you do not possess the comedic skills of Mel Brooks or
>Jerry Seinfeld.[/color]

So sue me.
[color=blue]
>Your remark was simply mean-spirited. Do you honestly
>think you won any points by such a display?[/color]

I'm not trying to win points. I'm trying to point out to you that your
behaviour is no better, and IMHO considerably worse, than the people you
are constantly attacking for being the "topic thought police" if you
prefer that term.

When you stick to making comments on C, you seem to have a clue. My advice
is to do that, and to drop the persistent drum rolls, hyperbole and snide
remarks about the regulars here.


--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.c om/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc. html>


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[Sidney Cadot]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark McIntyre wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:00:10 +0100, in comp.lang.c , Sidney Cadot
> <sidney@jigsaw. nl> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Yeah, whatever. Another ottfopic nazi.[/color]
>>
>>Mark,
>>
>>I live in a country that suffered from Nazi occupation in WWII.
>>Referring to someone as a nazi in an offhand way, as you do, is quite
>>deeply offensive,[/color]
>
>
> My apologies. It was meant to be an oblique reference to postings in this
> and similar threads about the "topic nazis" that we're supposed to be round
> here.[/color]

Yes, I didn't like the "topic nazis" reference either for one bit, but
at least this was coined by a non-regular, and it was used as a general
term. Your use directly pointed to Mark Shelor, which I feel takes it
one step too far.

But anyway... I'm glad you're sensible about it.
[color=blue]
> Obviously I was too subtle. However IMHO you need to grow a thicker
> skin if you take offense at the use of nazi in this context.[/color]

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps the rest of the world could get a
bit more sensitive.
[color=blue]
> And BTW I /am/ a European. The UK is in europe too, or at least so some of
> us think...[/color]

Best regards,


Sidney

[Joona I Palaste]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark Shelor <mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> scribbled the following:[color=blue]
> Mark McIntyre wrote:[color=green]
>> Yeah, whatever. Another ottfopic nazi.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> If your purpose in using such an inflammatory term was to bring
> unwarranted drama to your stunningly inconsequential post, you could
> have found a far less offensive way to do it.[/color]
[color=blue]
> Make no mistake: you do not possess the comedic skills of Mel Brooks or
> Jerry Seinfeld. Your remark was simply mean-spirited. Do you honestly
> think you won any points by such a display?[/color]

Mark, I have had enough of you. Mark already apologised for his use of
the term "Nazi", and by the way, he wasn't the first to use it in this
thread. You've been letting it be in the subject line for quite some
time yourself.
About time I did this.
*PLONK*

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.hel sinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"You have moved your mouse, for these changes to take effect you must shut down
and restart your computer. Do you want to restart your computer now?"
- Karri Kalpio

[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Joona I Palaste wrote:
[color=blue]
> Mark, I have had enough of you. Mark already apologised for his use of
> the term "Nazi", and by the way, he wasn't the first to use it in this
> thread. You've been letting it be in the subject line for quite some
> time yourself.
> About time I did this.
> *PLONK*[/color]


Well, in the event your killfile manages to let this through, you may
want to check the timestamps on the messages you're referring to. Mr.
McIntyre's apology was directed to Sidney, and it was posted more than
two hours after my message. So, your use of the word "already" is a bit
baffling.

Also, I did not initiate the thread on Topic Nazis, nor did anyone in
that thread refer to me as a Nazi. Moreover, this is an unmoderated
group, so it's not up to me to either allow or disallow that term to be
used in the subject line. If you bother to check, you'll see that I
posted a response to that thread with the subject line amended to "Topic
*****". Like Sidney, I don't consider the casual use of that term to be
particularly tasteful.

It's sad that you have to use a killfile to shield yourself from the truth.

Mark

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:55:50 -0700, in comp.lang.c , Mark Shelor
<mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Well, in the event your killfile manages to let this through, you may
>want to check the timestamps on the messages you're referring to.[/color]


You have quite a bit to learn about usenet. Its not IM you know. Theres' no
guarantee that messages arrive in order, in a timely manner, or even at
all.

[color=blue]
>Mr. McIntyre's apology was directed to Sidney, and it was posted more than
>two hours after my message. So, your use of the word "already" is a bit
>baffling.[/color]

FWIW I'd not seen your comment till after I replied to Sidney.
[color=blue]
>It's sad that you have to use a killfile to shield yourself from the truth.[/color]

Its sad that you can't see it. However I'm not killfiling you yet. Your C
comments sometimes make sense, and sometiems need corections, so I'm
sticking with you./
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.c om/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc. html>


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[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark McIntyre wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:55:50 -0700, in comp.lang.c , Mark Shelor
> <mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Well, in the event your killfile manages to let this through, you may
>>want to check the timestamps on the messages you're referring to.[/color]
>
> You have quite a bit to learn about usenet. Its not IM you know. Theres' no
> guarantee that messages arrive in order, in a timely manner, or even at
> all.[/color]


Thanks for the attention, but I think you should be delivering this
lecture to Joona I Palaste. He was the one making incorrect assumptions
about my post being made after apologies had been tendered.

[color=blue][color=green]
>>Mr. McIntyre's apology was directed to Sidney, and it was posted more than
>>two hours after my message. So, your use of the word "already" is a bit
>>baffling.[/color]
>
> FWIW I'd not seen your comment till after I replied to Sidney.[/color]


As Sidney pointed out, you aimed your use of the term "nazi" directly at
me, and I agree with Sidney that this took it one step too far. Yet,
you've offered no direct apology. The tone of your opening paragraph
signals that you're not in an apologetic mood at all. So, your FWIW is
not worth very much.

[Joona I Palaste]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@s pamcop.net> scribbled the following:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:55:50 -0700, in comp.lang.c , Mark Shelor
> <mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:[color=green]
>>Well, in the event your killfile manages to let this through, you may
>>want to check the timestamps on the messages you're referring to.[/color][/color]

Furthermore, in case you don't know it yet, the business with the word
"Nazi" was not the only reason I decided to killfile you, Mark Shelor.
I've fed up with you, and this was the last straw.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste@cc.hel sinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"And according to Occam's Toothbrush, we only need to optimise the most frequent
instructions."
- Teemu Kerola

[Richard Bos]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark Shelor <mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
> So, it's not quite fair to say that this newsgroup has the same
> relation to the C language that a Star Trek convention does to rocket
> science. But it IS demonstrably less helpful than newsgroups for other
> languages such as Perl.[/color]

Demonstrably? Well, then, please demonstrate this - taking into account
the fact that I find this the most helpful computing group I know, and
the less so the more system-specific posts there are.
[color=blue]
> Perhaps one thing we could agree on is C's desirability and aptness for
> system implementation in general. Why not contribute to serving that
> end?[/color]

We do. Note - "in general", not "for Windows XP SP3 only".

Richard

[Mark McIntyre]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:12:30 -0700, in comp.lang.c , Mark Shelor
<mshelor@comcas t.removeme.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Mark McIntyre wrote:
>
>Thanks for the attention, but I think you should be delivering this
>lecture to Joona I Palaste. He was the one making incorrect assumptions
>about my post being made after apologies had been tendered.[/color]

eh? Your own text, quoted below, makes it clear that you have some problems
w/ the concept.[color=blue]
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>Mr. McIntyre's apology was directed to Sidney, and it was posted more than
>>>two hours after my message. So, your use of the word "already" is a bit
>>>baffling.[/color]
>>[/color]
>you've offered no direct apology.[/color]

I did.
[color=blue]
>The tone of your opening paragraph
>signals that you're not in an apologetic mood at all. So, your FWIW is
>not worth very much.[/color]

*shrug*. YMMV but frankly I begin to think you're a troll.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.c om/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc. html>


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[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Mark McIntyre wrote:
[color=blue]
> eh? Your own text, quoted below, makes it clear that you have some problems
> w/ the concept.[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>>>Mr. McIntyre's apology was directed to Sidney, and it was posted more than
>>>>two hours after my message. So, your use of the word "already" is a bit
>>>>baffling.
>>>[/color]
>>you've offered no direct apology.[/color]
>
> I did.[/color]


You've used selective snipping, and thereby misrepresented the
situation. You directed the term "nazi" at me, not Sidney. Here's my
original text:

"As Sidney pointed out, you aimed your use of the term "nazi" directly
at me, and I agree with Sidney that this took it one step too far. Yet,
you've offered no direct apology. The tone of your opening paragraph
signals that you're not in an apologetic mood at all. So, your FWIW is
not worth very much."

So, an apology to Sidney, while laudable, is hardly sufficient.

[color=blue]
> *shrug*. YMMV but frankly I begin to think you're a troll.[/color]


Wonderful. It's a free world, so you can simply choose not to
contribute to this thread if you truly believe that.

[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Joona I Palaste wrote:
[color=blue]
> Furthermore, in case you don't know it yet, the business with the word
> "Nazi" was not the only reason I decided to killfile you, Mark Shelor.
> I've fed up with you, and this was the last straw.[/color]


OK, lil' Joona, you've slammed your bedroom door and are now ready for a
good pout. Once you've calmed down and are ready to talk again, perhaps
you can articulate some sound reasons that prompted you to issue the
deadly plonk.

With Parental Understanding and Good-Will, Mark

[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Richard Bos wrote:
[color=blue]
> Demonstrably? Well, then, please demonstrate this - taking into account
> the fact that I find this the most helpful computing group I know, and
> the less so the more system-specific posts there are.[/color]


Try visiting, say, comp.lang.perl. misc. The folks there are quite helpful.

Mark

[Nils Petter Vaskinn]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:29:00 -0700, Mark Shelor wrote:
[color=blue]
> Richard Bos wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Demonstrably? Well, then, please demonstrate this - taking into account
>> the fact that I find this the most helpful computing group I know, and
>> the less so the more system-specific posts there are.[/color]
>
>
> Try visiting, say, comp.lang.perl. misc. The folks there are quite helpful.[/color]
So are the folks here, it's just that they try to keep this a useful forum
but _not_ allowing implementation specific questions.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: You are not going to succeed in
forcing comp.lang.c to be what you seem to want. The best you are going to
achieve is to alienate everyone that could help you. And when they
killfile you here they won't see your questions in another group where it
would be on-topic.

If you are serious about the need for a group for all encompassing
discussion about C including implementations and plattform specific
details you should work to create such a group instead of trying to change
an existing group into it.

I expect to see your proposal for comp.lang.c.eve rything (or some
similarly named group) posted to news.groups shortly. Failure to post such
a proposal would indicate that you don't really care that much about
having a forum for discussion of _all_ aspects of C, and are not willing
to do the work nessesary to create such a forum.

(You could ofcourse propose to create a charter for c.l.c that would make
everything on topic, but I believe you'd have far better chances of
success if you try to get a separate group created)

If you don't care enough to make such a proposal, but keep on complaining
here about why c.l.c should be a group like that I will believe that you
don't really care about finding a forum where your questions are welcome,
and that all this is merely you whining because your ego got hurt when you
where directed to post your question somewhere else.

--
NPV

"the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away"
Tom Waits - Step right up

[Mark Shelor]

Re: Mystery: static variables &amp; performance

Nils Petter Vaskinn wrote:
[color=blue]
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: You are not going to succeed in
> forcing comp.lang.c to be what you seem to want. The best you are going to
> achieve is to alienate everyone that could help you. And when they
> killfile you here they won't see your questions in another group where it
> would be on-topic.[/color]


Thank you, Nils, for taking the time to compose these obviously
heart-felt remarks. It's clear you're trying to be helpful, and I
appreciate that.

Am I trying to force c.l.c to be anything other than it is? No, that's
not my style, and such an endeavor would be pure folly and a source of
intense frustration. Yes, I'm disappointed in some of the behavior I've
seen, and yes I've said that I would prefer to see a greater sense of
receptiveness and helpfulness in this group. But I'm also realistic
enough to know that people will be as they are.

If you carefully review the remarks made in this thread, you'll see that
I'm not the one who's attempting to force a particular behavior.
Frankly, the not-so-subtle attempts at persuasion are moving in quite
the opposite direction.

If someone chooses to killfile me, that's their privilege. I certainly
regret that people would willingly choose to subject themselves to a
form of self-censorship. But if it helps to spare them frustration,
then it's probably a reasonable course of action.

Please make no mistake, though: if someone posts a remark to this thread
that either reflects a misunderstandin g or makes a personal attack, I
will more than likely respond. And, if I detect that someone is
attempting to censor my remarks, I will almost certainly respond. I've
repeatedly advised that if people don't like this thread or believe it's
off-topic, then their best course of action would be to ignore it.

[color=blue]
> I expect to see your proposal for comp.lang.c.eve rything (or some
> similarly named group) posted to news.groups shortly.[/color]


Is that an order? Perhaps you didn't intend it to come across that way,
but you could have certainly phrased the idea in a more respectful tone.


[color=blue]
> Failure to post such
> a proposal would indicate that you don't really care that much about
> having a forum for discussion of _all_ aspects of C, and are not willing
> to do the work nessesary to create such a forum.[/color]


Or, that forming such a newsgroup would fall relatively low on my list
of life's priorites.

Would I like to see c.l.c have the same friendly atmosphere as
comp.lang.perl. misc? Yes, and I'd also like to have Liv Tyler show up
on my doorstep and say "I just dumped Royston Langdon, and I'm all yours
now, Big Boy", but that's simply not going to happen, now is it?

[color=blue]
> If you don't care enough to make such a proposal, but keep on complaining
> here about why c.l.c should be a group like that I will believe that you
> don't really care about finding a forum where your questions are welcome,
> and that all this is merely you whining because your ego got hurt when you
> where directed to post your question somewhere else.[/color]


I'm not complaining, but merely trying to encourage some of you to
display a bit more largesse when responding to others. And, if you look
at the civilized tone of my posts, especially compared to the vitriolic
remarks made by others, I believe you'll find your rather heavy-handed
attempt at psychoanalysis a bit misdirected.

Regards, Mark