How To Find The Formula of This Permutations?

[fera]

Hi to all of you guys here…
A friend of mine gave me:
1). A paper with a table of 350 rows x 284 columns, which each cell contains of a single number from 0 to 9. This table didn’t typed yet into .xls file. It will be like table on sheet 5 of file Enigma-2.xls if it has. Since here I can’t attach .xls file, I put it at Mediafire.com (a file hosting service) name Enigma-2.xls:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=bab4488f6ad122b3312dbd5f2bdc5062e04e75f6e8ebb871

2). A file name Enigma.xls like on sheet 1,2,3,4 of file Enigma-2.xls. He has remapped the table of 350 rows x 284 columns on that paper with:

Column -> number of table (column 1->Table 1, column 2->Table 2, column 3->Table 3,...,column 284->Table 284).
Cell Entries Index, 0 thru 9 in Column -> 10 Rows per new table (Rows 0,1,2,...9).
Row -> Ascending list of cell entries where the row index exists in the original table whose column corresponds to this translated tables index.

But he remapped the original table for 40 rows only. We were so lazy to type the original table manually to .xls file, so I want to convert it as I did on sheet 5 file Enigma-2.xls, but it didn’t work..?
Can somebody help me about this?

Now I’ve remapped it manually again per rows of that original table as on sheet 6 of file Enigma-2.xls with:

Rows -> number of table (row 1->Table 1, row 2->Table 2, row 3->Table 3,...,row 40->Table 40).
Cell Entries Index, 0 thru 9 in Row -> 10 Rows per new table (Rows 0,1,2,...9).
Row -> Ascending list of cell entries where the column index exists in the original table whose row corresponds to this translated tables index

Tables 1,5,9,13,17 / 41,45,49,53,57 / 21,25,29,33,37 / 61,65,69,73,77 on sheet 1 file Enigma-2. xls made us believe this infinite tables aren't random generated and have some patterns of permutations for extending it for the next larger numbers 41,42,43,and so on, as I gave the blank tables on sheet 6 to be filled in…
Can somebody help me about this too?
Hope my English is good enough for explaining this.
Thx.

[JosAH]

I've read your question last night and I've read it this morning (after I took my espresso coffee) but I understand zilch from your question and your Excel sheets. Please try a different explanation and formulation of your question.

If I'm not mistaken this same question was asked in the Sun Java forums; nobody managed to figure out what you meant; right?

kind regards,

Jos

[fera]

Dear Jos,
Supposed now I give you a table with 350 rows x 284 columns, which each cell contains of a single number from 0 to 9. By finding its patterns, I need your help to extend that table to fill the cells for the rows 351,352,353,etc .
Then what would you do?
If you need to see that table, my friend also had put it on other forum, but it was only 350 rows x 20 columns. We were so lazy to type it for the rest of other columns. It’s supposed to be like on sheet 5 file Enigma-2.xls if it has.
By seeing that table, it was very difficult for us to see the patterns. That’s why my friend remapped that table per-COLUMNS as he did on sheet 1,2,3,4 of file Enigma-2.xls with:
Column -> number of table (column 1->Table 1, column 2->Table 2, column 3->Table 3,...,column 284->Table 284).
Cell Entries Index, 0 thru 9 in Column -> 10 Rows per new table (Rows 0,1,2,...9).
Row -> Ascending list of cell entries where the row index exists in the original table whose column corresponds to this translated tables index.

By doing this, he found the patterns as he wrote on his opinion on sheet 0 of file Enigma-2.xls beneath NOMENCLATURE OF THE TABLES.

Then I remapped that table again per-ROWS as I did it on sheet 6 of file Enigma-2.xls with:
Row -> number of table (row 1->Table 1, row 2->Table 2, row 3->Table 3,...,row 40->Table 40).
Cell Entries Index, 0 thru 9 in Row -> 10 Rows per new table (Rows 0,1,2,...9).
Row -> Ascending list of cell entries where the column index exists in the original table whose row corresponds to this translated tables index

I can see its patterns as I wrote as the Note: on below of sheet 6.
But the big problem is we don’t know how to scramble numbers to result like that.
I need help to extend the blank tables 41,42,43,etc as I gave on sheet 6 of file Enigma-2.xls. It will be the same as you extend the original table for the rows 351,352,353,etc .
Now can you understand the whole problems? If you do, perhaps you can also help me to re-write again this thread in English, so everybody else can understand it. I’ll be great thank to you, because our English isn’t too excellent for it.
Thx Jos, for your attentions.

[jkmyoung]

Do you have any clue as to what type of pattern you are dealing with?
What formula is your original table using to calculate cells, or is this what you're trying to find?
Can you not use random numbers?

My feeling is that this question is not really suitable for this type of forum.

[fera]

Hi jkmyoung,
Yes, I’m trying to find what formula is the original table using to calculate cells.
If this is using random numbers, how to explain Table 1 (sheet 1 of file Enigma-2.xls) which contains only number 0 or 1 for more than 40 times?
I don’t know for sure anymore what type of forum is really suitable for this question. :)
Thx for your attentions too.

[JosAH]

If this is using random numbers, how to explain Table 1 (sheet 1 of file Enigma-2.xls) which contains only number 0 or 1 for more than 40 times?

I don't see just 1s and 0s in that first table ... as a matter of fact I see only one 1 and no zeros at all ... and to tell you the truth: your explanations don't make any sense to me at all, sorry.

kind regards,

Jos

[fera]

If you see Table 1 (sheet 1 of file Enigma-2.xls), numbers 1 to 40 are only in row 0 or row 1. It means among the 284 columns of the original table 350 rows x 284 columns, column 1 contains only numbers 0 or 1 for 40 rows.
Yes, it is very very difficult for me to explain the whole problems by details...

[JosAH]

If you see Table 1 (sheet 1 of file Enigma-2.xls), numbers 1 to 40 are only in row 0 or row 1. It means among the 284 columns of the original table 350 rows x 284 columns, column 1 contains only numbers 0 or 1 for 40 rows.
Yes, it is very very difficult for me to explain the whole problems by details...

Why did you encode that large table in such an obscure way? So obscure that you can hardly explain what you have done and now you're asking us to understand this all? Why don't you give us the original table, partly completed, so that we can have a look, and understanding, of what you actually mean?

All these tables in all those tabs in that Excel sheet are gibberish to me ...

kind regards,

Jos

[fera]

Here you can find the original tables for 40 rows of columns 81,82,83,84,173 ,174,175,176,26 5,266,267,268,2 77,278,279,280, 281,282,283,284 .

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=99cc03efd6bd5ce35bf1f12f1ff3f30ae04e75f6e8ebb871

Since column 1 didn't typed yet into Excel, I can't show you that column 1 contains only number 0 or 1 for 40 rows.
Thx Jos.

[JosAH]

Here you can find the original tables for 40 rows of columns 81,82,83,84,173 ,174,175,176,26 5,266,267,268,2 77,278,279,280, 281,282,283,284 .

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=99cc03efd6bd5ce35bf1f12f1ff3f30ae04e75f6e8ebb871

Since column 1 didn't typed yet into Excel, I can't show you that column 1 contains only number 0 or 1 for 40 rows.
Thx Jos.

I'm afraid someone with more brain power should read this; You show us all sorts of tables and come up with lots of (arbitrary to us) numbers. What is it that you want? Don't throw more tables and numbers at us please, just tell us what the aim of the game is because I still don't understand it.

kind regards,

Jos

[fera]

Dear Jos,
Basically, just take a look only on sheet 6 of file Enigma-2.xls. There are infinite amount of tables, with ten rows (row 0,1,2,….9) each. Inside of each tables, there are numbers from 1 to 92, 93 to 184, 185 to 276, and 277 to 284, which lie on their certain rows. They have been filled in for 40 tables. By finding the patterns/ formulas, can you help me to extend the tables to fill in the blank tables 41,42,43,etc as given beneath of Table 40. Just like SUDOKU, in each tables there will be no same numbers vertically, horizontally and diagonally. If these tables use permutations from an ideal table, that you can see beneath Table 40 (supposed the ideal table was right), then how to find the formulas of its permutations? That's all.
Thx.

[jkmyoung]

So you have a 1-1 relationship between rows and columns for that table? Is there ever a case where there is a row without a corresponding column or vice-versa?

Isn't there a beter way to store this information? I would seriously consider looking at redesigning whatever it is you're doing, and take it out of excel.

[fera]

So you have a 1-1 relationship between rows and columns for that table?

Yes, it is.

Is there ever a case where there is a row without a corresponding column or vice-versa?

I don't think so.

Isn't there a beter way to store this information? I would seriously consider looking at redesigning whatever it is you're doing, and take it out of excel.

I made it in PDF file once, but Excel can be useful if you want to make any calculations.
Thx.

[jkmyoung]

I actually meant something more code based. You can still make changes within excel as well.

Instead of having hundreds or thousands of columns and rows, you could simply have 2 columns with the same # of rows you had before.
So if the first row has a 1 in column 200 (GR), and row 2 has a 1 in column 249 (IO)
Your spreadsheet could look like:
row index/ column index
1, 200
2, 249

If trying to perform calculations, you can use LOOKUP or other similar functions.

[fera]

Honestly, I don't know much about computer & programming. I've learned once about Visual Basic.Net, but it was too difficult for me. If I am able in it, I'd like to convert the file to be in VB format.
Thx for your suggestion.