An HTML version of this document is available at:
Feeling left out? Alone? Wondering why everyone's ignoring you?
Or why you're being flamed for what you deemed an innocent post?
The following tips will not only help you, they will help us help you.
Please note: The latest changes to this document are marked
with a | at the left-most side of the line that has been changed.
Charter for comp.databases. ms-access
------------------------------------
Access is a RDBMS for the Windows Operating System.
It includes WYSIWYG design tools for easy creation of
tables, reports, forms and queries and a database
programming language called VBA (Visual Basic for
Applications).
The purpose of the group is to provide technical help
to people who use Access to create simple databases,
as well as to people who use VBA to create complex
databases.
WARNING!
---------
Comp.databases. ms-access is a forum for communicating ideas and
you'll find plenty of those here, ranging from sheer brilliance to
educated misconceptions, and lucky shots from ignorance.
Understanding what you get here is the only way to ensure you get
something useful.
Blindly copying code and methods from what is posted may get you
into more problems then you had to begin with, in which case you
are the only one to blame.
If you're looking for help with your homework, consider the fact
that if you were bright enough to come here for help, your
teacher might be as well.
Some teachers lurk in this newsgroup, and at least one has asked
for our help in creating questions for you!
The failure on the assignment you are about to receive by asking
your question here is your own!
The following are specifically
forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
1) Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free,
a demo or otherwise.
2) Job Postings of any kind, regardless if the posting is for
help wanted or someone looking for work.
a) You may, however, through your regular contributions to the
group find that you are solicited via e-mail with
opportunities.
b) There are a variety of resources available to you via other
avenues. http://www.dice.com is one such resource. Although
not endorsed by this newsgroup, it has certainly enabled a
number of our participents.
3) Binaries (zip/exe attachments, v-cards etc.) of any kind.
If the exchange of such files is necessary, they can either be
emailed to an individual who has agreed to take a closer look at
your problem, or they can be made available for download over the
web.
4) "Spam", chain-letters and other irrelevant material.
Everybody gets enough of this in their personal mail-boxes.
They shouldn't have to deal with it in the newsgroups too!
(See also "Answering Questions The Right Way", 4c ii.)
Searching for an Answer to a problem?
-------------------------------------
1) Start by doing your own research. Look in the help files first!
The help files that come with Access are actually a great
source for help (not counting Access 2000, that is).
2) If you've exhausted your options in the help files, try Google.
( http://groups.google.com/ )
Most likely, someone else will have had a problem similar to
yours.
It might be quicker to look through the last few hundred messages
(that's about 1 days worth of messages), than to post and wait
for an answer.
3) The Access Web is your next stop in your search:
http://www.mvps.org/access/ .
4) Do not confuse this newsgroup with Microsoft tech support. No
one here owes you a response. People provide responses to
questions asked in an appropriate manner as they see fit. This
is a public forum where no one gets paid.
Asking questions the right way:
-------------------------------
1) Do not expect anyone to answer via e-mail.
You posted your question(s) to a newsgroup, and should expect the
same for any answers.
2) Do not send e-mail to folks posting answers.
Everybody has a job and a life, and not everyone has the time to
respond to individual questions.
3) Multi-posting is bad!
a) You commit the crime of multi-posting your questions by
posting the same question to several different newsgroups,
one at a time.
b) Several folks who could answer your questions take this as a
serious misuse of newsgroups and will likely ignore your
questions.
4) Cross-posting is ok provided you include only the relevant
newsgroups.
a) You can cross-post a message to different newsgroups
by including the newsgroup names separated by a semi-colon.
b) Obviously, this feature is easily and often abused.
c) Don't be too surprised if you get a email message complaining
about your cross-posted message!
5) Use the subject line properly.
a) A question with a proper subject line is more likely to get a
reply than one with a generic cry for help.
b) The subject line should be brief, yet descriptive of the
problem, and also include the version of Access that you are
using.
| c) Avoid changing the subject line as the thread develops. While
| many newsreaders will track a thread based on posting references,
| some newsreaders, notably Google and Yahoo, only track threads by
| subject line. Thus, by changing the subject line, some of the
| original "audience" tracking the thread will be lost and may not
| see your post at all.
| i) Remember that with the volume of traffic here, not everyone is
| able to read every post and many simply browse subject lines -
| if the subject is an area not in their area or not part of a
| thread in which they are participating, that post may not be read.
| ii) To thank contributers, it is acceptable to add a "Thanks"
| AT THE *END* of the current subject line.
| It is just as effective, however, to leave the subject line as it
| is and express your thanks in the body of the post.
6) Your Keyboard has a Shift Key. Use it!
a) Messages and Subject lines in all caps is considered shouting,
annoying and rude.
b) Messages in all lowercase are somewhat harder to read.
So, leave the caps lock off, and use that shift key when
appropriate. You may of course use caps to emphasize a word.
7) Clear and concise questions are more likely to get a clear and
concise answer.
a) If you get a message box notifying you that something is
wrong please include this information in your post.
b) If you get an error number, include that too!
c) Letting us know what your table looks like, AND WHAT IT'S ABOUT
helps us answer your questions about queries, forms and reports.
i) Making Access guess about it is a bad idea.
ii) Making *us* guess is even worse!
8) Be thoughtful of bandwidth and other folks' thought processes.
a) Trim the messages you are replying to.
i) Include quotes, but not excessive ones.
ii) The standard rule of thumb is to include only enough to
"jog" the person's memory.
iii) Please include =something= of the message you are replying
to however. With 300+ messages a day, it's not always
easy to remember what was discussed!
b) Do not post HTML or attachments.
c) Short code segments are very useful, long ones annoying.
d) If you can't explain it, no one else is likely to understand
it either!
e) Understand that folks are helping you.
i) Do not be rude to someone answering your question
(Rule Number One!).
ii) Don't bite the hand that freely feeds you.
f) Don't confuse a concise reply with an insult.
Assume that a reply is *not* meant as a personal attack.
g) Look for Smileys :-) grins <g> and other "Emoticons" .
i) When you see one, the preceding statement was not meant
to be really serious, don't take it as such.
h) If someone uses a acronym that you don't understand, head for
http://www.acronymfinder.com for enlightenment.
9) Things get missed.
If you don't get an answer in 2 days,
re-post after re-reading your first post for clarity.
10) This is a community.
a) We're all human!
i) Well, those of us who aren't Borg, anyways!
b) Let folks know what worked when you thank them, and...
c) Thank all the folks that helped you in *one* message.
i) This lets us know that no additional help is needed, and
ii) That we gave out the right answer!
iii) We're *all* still learning...
d) Answer as well as ask.
i) It *is* ok to be wrong sometimes.
ii) If proven wrong, accept it gracefully. (See 10a.)
e) If you are 90% sure, say "I think..."
f) The use of your real name, unlike some juvenile handle,
says "please take me seriously."
g) These are real people.
i) Read the From header and/or Signature line and realize
that there's a person behind the online persona.
11) The internet is archived;
a) Think twice before you hit Send.
i) Especially if you are angry at the moment.
12) Don't set your computer to post from the future
a) Posting a message with the time/date set to the future causes
your message to remain at the top of the queue in most peoples
newsreader. Therefore, it has become a common strategy to
attract more attention.
b) Such posts are generally ignored, and may subject you to
criticism by the people in the newsgroup.
c) You have now been warned against doing this! Post that way at
your own peril.
Answering questions the right way
---------------------------------
1) All the rules for "Asking questions the right way" still apply.
2) *Everyone* is allowed to answer questions.
a) You don't have to be a genius or a wizard or the author of a
best-selling book.
i) Although there are quite a few newsgroup regulars who
are all of the above.
ii) The point is that you do not need to be on a select list
of official responders; there is no such list.
b) You _do_ need to have some inkling about the subject you are
responding to.
i) If you are not sure of the answer, but have some advice
that may be helpful, post it with disclaimers.
(See below).
3) Advise people of the nature of your response.
a) If you are not sure of the answer, say so.
i) If you are hesitant about your answer, it may help to
wait a while to see if anyone else responds. If not,
then go ahead and post, with the proper disclaimers of
course.
ii) Conversely, if you are absolutely sure, say so. It may
help people to filter out the answers that are potential
solutions vs. the answers that are proven fixes.
b) If the code you are posting is off the top of your head and
untested, say so!
i) The usual term for such code is "air code", because it's
been pulled from thin air
c) If your answer applies only in certain situations, say so.
4) Be polite.
a) Always give people the benefit of the doubt.
b) If you can't make heads or tails of the question, a polite
request for clarification will get better results than
belittling the poster.
i) English isn't the native language of everyone.
c) The best way to deal with a troll is to ignore him.
i) That's the best way to deal with spam, too.
ii) If you _do_ feel compelled to respond to a spam post,
delete all product identifiers, internet addresses,
and company names! Otherwise, you will just be giving
the advertisement more exposure.
d) Use emoticons (smilies) whenever something you say could be
taken the wrong way.
5) Tailor your answer to the proficiency level of the question.
a) This can be more difficult than it sounds.
i) If in doubt, it's usually best to err on the side of
"beginner".
ii) Or better yet, ask for clarification.
Other Sources for Help:
The Access Web:
Additional Sites:
MS Access Web Ring:
Search for previous Answers in this NG at:
Microsoft Access Security FAQ:
(This is the Security FAQ for *ALL* version of Access)
(On-Line version of the Security FAQ)
Microsoft Knowledgebase:
Building Applications with Microsoft Access 97:
Sample Applications Download:
Putting Your Database on the Web:
Tony Toews' Email FAQ:
Doug Steele's Explanation Of Missing References:
--
Madness Takes Its Toll. Please Have Exact Change.
Feeling left out? Alone? Wondering why everyone's ignoring you?
Or why you're being flamed for what you deemed an innocent post?
The following tips will not only help you, they will help us help you.
Please note: The latest changes to this document are marked
with a | at the left-most side of the line that has been changed.
Charter for comp.databases. ms-access
------------------------------------
Access is a RDBMS for the Windows Operating System.
It includes WYSIWYG design tools for easy creation of
tables, reports, forms and queries and a database
programming language called VBA (Visual Basic for
Applications).
The purpose of the group is to provide technical help
to people who use Access to create simple databases,
as well as to people who use VBA to create complex
databases.
WARNING!
---------
Comp.databases. ms-access is a forum for communicating ideas and
you'll find plenty of those here, ranging from sheer brilliance to
educated misconceptions, and lucky shots from ignorance.
Understanding what you get here is the only way to ensure you get
something useful.
Blindly copying code and methods from what is posted may get you
into more problems then you had to begin with, in which case you
are the only one to blame.
If you're looking for help with your homework, consider the fact
that if you were bright enough to come here for help, your
teacher might be as well.
Some teachers lurk in this newsgroup, and at least one has asked
for our help in creating questions for you!
The failure on the assignment you are about to receive by asking
your question here is your own!
The following are specifically
forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
1) Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free,
a demo or otherwise.
2) Job Postings of any kind, regardless if the posting is for
help wanted or someone looking for work.
a) You may, however, through your regular contributions to the
group find that you are solicited via e-mail with
opportunities.
b) There are a variety of resources available to you via other
avenues. http://www.dice.com is one such resource. Although
not endorsed by this newsgroup, it has certainly enabled a
number of our participents.
3) Binaries (zip/exe attachments, v-cards etc.) of any kind.
If the exchange of such files is necessary, they can either be
emailed to an individual who has agreed to take a closer look at
your problem, or they can be made available for download over the
web.
4) "Spam", chain-letters and other irrelevant material.
Everybody gets enough of this in their personal mail-boxes.
They shouldn't have to deal with it in the newsgroups too!
(See also "Answering Questions The Right Way", 4c ii.)
Searching for an Answer to a problem?
-------------------------------------
1) Start by doing your own research. Look in the help files first!
The help files that come with Access are actually a great
source for help (not counting Access 2000, that is).
2) If you've exhausted your options in the help files, try Google.
( http://groups.google.com/ )
Most likely, someone else will have had a problem similar to
yours.
It might be quicker to look through the last few hundred messages
(that's about 1 days worth of messages), than to post and wait
for an answer.
3) The Access Web is your next stop in your search:
http://www.mvps.org/access/ .
4) Do not confuse this newsgroup with Microsoft tech support. No
one here owes you a response. People provide responses to
questions asked in an appropriate manner as they see fit. This
is a public forum where no one gets paid.
Asking questions the right way:
-------------------------------
1) Do not expect anyone to answer via e-mail.
You posted your question(s) to a newsgroup, and should expect the
same for any answers.
2) Do not send e-mail to folks posting answers.
Everybody has a job and a life, and not everyone has the time to
respond to individual questions.
3) Multi-posting is bad!
a) You commit the crime of multi-posting your questions by
posting the same question to several different newsgroups,
one at a time.
b) Several folks who could answer your questions take this as a
serious misuse of newsgroups and will likely ignore your
questions.
4) Cross-posting is ok provided you include only the relevant
newsgroups.
a) You can cross-post a message to different newsgroups
by including the newsgroup names separated by a semi-colon.
b) Obviously, this feature is easily and often abused.
c) Don't be too surprised if you get a email message complaining
about your cross-posted message!
5) Use the subject line properly.
a) A question with a proper subject line is more likely to get a
reply than one with a generic cry for help.
b) The subject line should be brief, yet descriptive of the
problem, and also include the version of Access that you are
using.
| c) Avoid changing the subject line as the thread develops. While
| many newsreaders will track a thread based on posting references,
| some newsreaders, notably Google and Yahoo, only track threads by
| subject line. Thus, by changing the subject line, some of the
| original "audience" tracking the thread will be lost and may not
| see your post at all.
| i) Remember that with the volume of traffic here, not everyone is
| able to read every post and many simply browse subject lines -
| if the subject is an area not in their area or not part of a
| thread in which they are participating, that post may not be read.
| ii) To thank contributers, it is acceptable to add a "Thanks"
| AT THE *END* of the current subject line.
| It is just as effective, however, to leave the subject line as it
| is and express your thanks in the body of the post.
6) Your Keyboard has a Shift Key. Use it!
a) Messages and Subject lines in all caps is considered shouting,
annoying and rude.
b) Messages in all lowercase are somewhat harder to read.
So, leave the caps lock off, and use that shift key when
appropriate. You may of course use caps to emphasize a word.
7) Clear and concise questions are more likely to get a clear and
concise answer.
a) If you get a message box notifying you that something is
wrong please include this information in your post.
b) If you get an error number, include that too!
c) Letting us know what your table looks like, AND WHAT IT'S ABOUT
helps us answer your questions about queries, forms and reports.
i) Making Access guess about it is a bad idea.
ii) Making *us* guess is even worse!
8) Be thoughtful of bandwidth and other folks' thought processes.
a) Trim the messages you are replying to.
i) Include quotes, but not excessive ones.
ii) The standard rule of thumb is to include only enough to
"jog" the person's memory.
iii) Please include =something= of the message you are replying
to however. With 300+ messages a day, it's not always
easy to remember what was discussed!
b) Do not post HTML or attachments.
c) Short code segments are very useful, long ones annoying.
d) If you can't explain it, no one else is likely to understand
it either!
e) Understand that folks are helping you.
i) Do not be rude to someone answering your question
(Rule Number One!).
ii) Don't bite the hand that freely feeds you.
f) Don't confuse a concise reply with an insult.
Assume that a reply is *not* meant as a personal attack.
g) Look for Smileys :-) grins <g> and other "Emoticons" .
i) When you see one, the preceding statement was not meant
to be really serious, don't take it as such.
h) If someone uses a acronym that you don't understand, head for
http://www.acronymfinder.com for enlightenment.
9) Things get missed.
If you don't get an answer in 2 days,
re-post after re-reading your first post for clarity.
10) This is a community.
a) We're all human!
i) Well, those of us who aren't Borg, anyways!
b) Let folks know what worked when you thank them, and...
c) Thank all the folks that helped you in *one* message.
i) This lets us know that no additional help is needed, and
ii) That we gave out the right answer!
iii) We're *all* still learning...
d) Answer as well as ask.
i) It *is* ok to be wrong sometimes.
ii) If proven wrong, accept it gracefully. (See 10a.)
e) If you are 90% sure, say "I think..."
f) The use of your real name, unlike some juvenile handle,
says "please take me seriously."
g) These are real people.
i) Read the From header and/or Signature line and realize
that there's a person behind the online persona.
11) The internet is archived;
a) Think twice before you hit Send.
i) Especially if you are angry at the moment.
12) Don't set your computer to post from the future
a) Posting a message with the time/date set to the future causes
your message to remain at the top of the queue in most peoples
newsreader. Therefore, it has become a common strategy to
attract more attention.
b) Such posts are generally ignored, and may subject you to
criticism by the people in the newsgroup.
c) You have now been warned against doing this! Post that way at
your own peril.
Answering questions the right way
---------------------------------
1) All the rules for "Asking questions the right way" still apply.
2) *Everyone* is allowed to answer questions.
a) You don't have to be a genius or a wizard or the author of a
best-selling book.
i) Although there are quite a few newsgroup regulars who
are all of the above.
ii) The point is that you do not need to be on a select list
of official responders; there is no such list.
b) You _do_ need to have some inkling about the subject you are
responding to.
i) If you are not sure of the answer, but have some advice
that may be helpful, post it with disclaimers.
(See below).
3) Advise people of the nature of your response.
a) If you are not sure of the answer, say so.
i) If you are hesitant about your answer, it may help to
wait a while to see if anyone else responds. If not,
then go ahead and post, with the proper disclaimers of
course.
ii) Conversely, if you are absolutely sure, say so. It may
help people to filter out the answers that are potential
solutions vs. the answers that are proven fixes.
b) If the code you are posting is off the top of your head and
untested, say so!
i) The usual term for such code is "air code", because it's
been pulled from thin air
c) If your answer applies only in certain situations, say so.
4) Be polite.
a) Always give people the benefit of the doubt.
b) If you can't make heads or tails of the question, a polite
request for clarification will get better results than
belittling the poster.
i) English isn't the native language of everyone.
c) The best way to deal with a troll is to ignore him.
i) That's the best way to deal with spam, too.
ii) If you _do_ feel compelled to respond to a spam post,
delete all product identifiers, internet addresses,
and company names! Otherwise, you will just be giving
the advertisement more exposure.
d) Use emoticons (smilies) whenever something you say could be
taken the wrong way.
5) Tailor your answer to the proficiency level of the question.
a) This can be more difficult than it sounds.
i) If in doubt, it's usually best to err on the side of
"beginner".
ii) Or better yet, ask for clarification.
Other Sources for Help:
The Access Web:
Additional Sites:
MS Access Web Ring:
Search for previous Answers in this NG at:
Microsoft Access Security FAQ:
(This is the Security FAQ for *ALL* version of Access)
(On-Line version of the Security FAQ)
Microsoft Knowledgebase:
Building Applications with Microsoft Access 97:
Sample Applications Download:
Putting Your Database on the Web:
Tony Toews' Email FAQ:
Doug Steele's Explanation Of Missing References:
--
Madness Takes Its Toll. Please Have Exact Change.